Author Topic: Five Reasons Why God Exists  (Read 1190 times)

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Online Willie

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Five Reasons Why God Exists
« on: December 15, 2013, 09:24:57 PM »
Attention Christians!

Arm yourselves with these five rock-solid, razor-sharp, logically flawless arguments from the famous and brilliant apologist, William Lane Craig. These have been generously provided free of charge by an always fair and balanced news network with unparalleled journalistic integrity. Once you've read the article and studied the arguments closely so that you are confident in your ability to wield them, all that's left is to visit your favorite atheist message board and start winning souls for the lord with these highly original, never before heard, not already debunked arguments. You'll "wow" 'em.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/12/13/christmas-gift-for-atheists-five-reasons-why-god-exists/

muahahaha...

Christmas gift for atheists, indeed!

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2013, 10:34:15 PM »
From the "article":

Quote
However, most atheists, in my experience, have no good reasons for their disbelief. Rather they’ve learned to simply repeat the slogan, “There’s no good evidence for God’s existence!”

"No good evidence" IS a good reason not to believe.

*reads rest of it*

It's all the usual bunch of old god of the gaps arguments.   "Transcendent... beyond time and space... fine tuning... morality... yadda yadda yadda".  Some christmas gift!  It's just the same old things we get all year.  I demand to exchange my gift at once!


Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2013, 11:22:11 PM »
As soon as I see the words William Lane Craig and/or foxnews I can no longer go forward. I know the stupidity and dishonesty will be too much for me to handle.

Offline xyzzy

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2013, 11:33:41 PM »
Yes, scary indeed. I'll be up all night worrying about how I could have been so mistaken. Well, actually, no I won't.

It seems that William Lane Craig, who believes in his god and feels it in his heart, thinks that the best arguments for the existence of his god is that he can't think of better answers to questions that he formed so that he could argue that his god was the answer?[1]

And we're supposed to do what? Laugh, cry, shake head and walk away mumbling "fallacy, thy name is Christian apologist?"

What really irks me about these utterly ridiculous arguments is the total dishonesty of using a deist argument to argue for the existence of his three-in-one monstrosity. When you couple this with WLC's stated position that nothing could sway him from his faith,[2] I'm not at all concerned that I've somehow missed some amazing argument for the existence of his mythical best friend.
 1. And even then, his arguments are merely window dressing over the superstitious thinking of uneducated and primitive people who invented gods to explain what they didn't understand
 2. Just the first 90 seconds should be enough to inform you that you are not dealing with rational thought - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C3T17aKPCI
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 11:35:16 PM by xyzzy »
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2013, 11:46:12 PM »
Well, I'm impressed. He got the numbers in the right order.

When someone says that the best explanation is an unknowable dude with a penchant for staying disappeared, I start having a little trouble with the overall direction of their argument. When the writer has refused to put any effort into learning what humans have to say about the universe and said writer also assumes that he knows it all, I lose interest.
When the writer says he is performing public service for non-believers and in fact is only trying to win brownie points with this god guy he hopes exists (and a pat on the back form fellow believers), he more or less loses me completely.

The dude has the attitude wrong, the mysteries wrong, the excuses wrong, the answers wrong and the righteousness wrong. Other than that, he's spot on.

He thinks he knows everything, but he knows so little that there is no way to tell him why he is wrong. He's so busy telling everyone that he is intelligent and articulate that he keeps forgetting to be. An easy mistake to make when you're your area of expertise is in knowing nothing.

I, for one, am getting tired of theists proclaiming the completeness of their insights when their only skill is blindness. Of the voluntary variety. Until they can learn to pronounce the word "science" and they retake the classes they ignored in elementary school, they aren't worth talking to.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Online Willie

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2013, 12:14:13 AM »
As soon as I see the words William Lane Craig and/or foxnews I can no longer go forward. I know the stupidity and dishonesty will be too much for me to handle.

That's ok, The Gawd. I'm sure you can glean a pretty good idea of what you would find there, even without using your omniscience. Just make a top-of-the head list of the top ten theist arguments that you hear on this board, and there's a good chance that all five from the article will be on it.

I've sometimes seen Christians suggest that WLC is particularly brilliant among apologists. If that's true, the intellectual quality of the article suggests that he must be reserving all his good stuff for other venues, leaving only worn out bunkum for Fox News. If I were Fox News, I'd feel cheated, and a bit insulted.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2013, 12:14:29 AM »

He thinks he knows everything, but he knows so little that there is no way to tell him why he is wrong. He's so busy telling everyone that he is intelligent and articulate that he keeps forgetting to be. An easy mistake to make when you're your area of expertise is in knowing nothing.


You are forgetting that it's just propaganda to fool Christians, whose faith is weak. They like positive affirmations, and bullet points.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2013, 02:59:43 PM »
Quote
The good thing is that atheists tend to be very passionate people and want to believe in something.
I guess I just don't really understand this line.  I mean, I believe and disbelieve things, but what exactly does it mean that I want to believe in something?

The way I see it, I really don't have this incessant need to believe in something.  I have an incessant need to know that what I believe is true.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Online One Above All

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2013, 03:02:33 PM »
Quote
The good thing is that atheists tend to be very passionate people and want to believe in something.
I guess I just don't really understand this line.  I mean, I believe and disbelieve things, but what exactly does it mean that I want to believe in something?

The way I see it, I really don't have this incessant need to believe in something.  I have an incessant need to know that what I believe is true.

It's Fox. You might as well expect an ant to solve differential equations.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline SevenPatch

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2013, 03:40:24 PM »
I've been watching a lot of debates between theists and atheists recently.

One thing I find amazing is I never hear a new argument from theists.  It's always the same argument.  Nothing new.

In contrast, I always learn something new from the atheist side of the debate.

Not that this proves anything, other than I would be very interested in hearing something new from theists.

EDIT: Also, I think theists should be careful, the more they expose their flawed arguments the more other theists will read them and start thinking about them and may discover the flaws for themselves.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 03:43:08 PM by SevenPatch »
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2013, 07:34:36 AM »
Five reasons why my cat Roger exists.  And why he is the supreme ruler of the universe. 


1.  Roger provides the best explanation of the origin of the universe.  Given the scientific evidence we have about our universe and its origins, and bolstered by arguments presented by philosophers for centuries, it is highly probable that the universe had an absolute beginning. Since the universe, like everything else, could not have merely popped into being without a cause, there must exist a transcendent reality beyond time and space that brought the universe into existence. This entity must therefore be enormously powerful. Only a transcendent, unembodied mind suitably fits that description.

2.  Roger provides the best explanation for the fine-tuning of the universe. Contemporary physics has established that the universe is fine-tuned for the existence of intelligent, interactive life.  That is to say, in order for intelligent, interactive life to exist, the fundamental constants and quantities of nature must fall into an incomprehensibly narrow life-permitting range.  There are three competing explanations of this remarkable fine-tuning: physical necessity, chance, or design. The first two are highly implausible, given the independence of the fundamental constants and quantities from nature's laws and the desperate maneuvers needed to save the hypothesis of chance. That leaves design as the best explanation.

3.  Roger provides the best explanation of objective moral values and duties. Even atheists recognize that some things, for example, the Holocaust, are objectively evil. But if atheism is true, what basis is there for the objectivity of the moral values we affirm? Evolution? Social conditioning? These factors may at best produce in us the subjective feeling that there are objective moral values and duties, but they do nothing to provide a basis for them. If human evolution had taken a different path, a very different set of moral feelings might have evolved. By contrast, Roger Himself serves as the paradigm of goodness, and His commandments constitute our moral duties. Thus, theism provides a better explanation of objective moral values and duties.
 
4.  Roger provides the best explanation of the historical facts concerning Roger’s life, death, and resurrection.  Historians have reached something of consensus that the historical Roger thought that in himself a divine Kingdom had broken into human history, and he carried out a ministry of miracle-working and exorcisms as evidence of that fact.  These miracles include fitting into a gap between the wall and the radiator, which is only inches wide, and only a fraction of the size of Roger’s body.   Moreover, most historical scholars agree that after his multiple flirtations with death, (including consuming toxic houseplants, and surviving a fall which certainly should have resulted in his demise) he was discovered alive by a group of female disciples, that various individuals and groups saw appearances of Roger alive after his death, and that the original disciples suddenly and sincerely came to believe in Roger’s resurrection despite their every predisposition to the contrary. I can think of no better explanation of these facts than the one the original disciples gave:  Divine powers raised Roger from the dead..

5.  Roger can be personally known and experienced.  The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. Down through history friends and neighbors have found through Roger a personal acquaintance with Roger that has transformed their lives.
 
The good thing is that atheists tend to be very passionate people and want to believe in something. If they would only put aside the slogans for a moment and reexamine their worldview in light of the best philosophical, scientific, and historical evidence we have today, then they, too, would find Roger’s Birthday worth celebrating!


Offline Ataraxia

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2013, 08:02:33 AM »
No, this is one reason for believing a god exists and four fallacies of confirmation bias.

WLC didn't believe in a god through any of the first four "reasons". He had an experience as a depressed teenager after he quizzed his classmate, Sandy, over why she was so happy. Then he looked up to the night sky and hey presto - God. Yet he expects others to take note of these "reasons" when he never did himself before he had his little brain fart. Odious, lying hypocrite.
If you keep on living your life as though your purpose is to be saved and go to heaven, you are missing the heaven that you are living in right now.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2013, 09:18:06 AM »
Fox news, the show that is legally allowed to lie on television...

Thank god...err...some non-deity...that i live in Australia.
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Online Graybeard

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2013, 10:29:39 AM »
WARNING! I suggest that no Christian should click on the OP's link as there is a picture of a so-called "Christmas" tree: these are specifically prohibited by God:
Jeremiah 10:2-4

King James Version (KJV)

2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.


My personal experience is that no True Christian household has a "so-called" Christmas tree - and that those households that do are merely filled with self-serving hypocrites who pick and choose what they believe and, out of those choices, they create their own image of a small god and proceed to worship themselves.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2013, 10:43:15 AM »
Speaking of comedy, take a look at this link which mentions our fare site http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/explaining-the-power-of-prayer-to-non-believers.51564/#post-877723.

It seems that to these Christians we are dogs, swine even, of a fallen society that God cannot help via prayer or any divine intervention because in doing so He would be acting against His judgment against mankind.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 10:59:03 AM »
Personally, I would join any religion that had female disciples. They'd still have to quit nagging me about needing a haircut though.

But still, if Roger comes knocking on my door, he's got a shot.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Online wheels5894

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2013, 11:04:16 AM »
WARNING! I suggest that no Christian should click on the OP's link as there is a picture of a so-called "Christmas" tree: these are specifically prohibited by God:
Jeremiah 10:2-4

King James Version (KJV)

2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.


My personal experience is that no True Christian household has a "so-called" Christmas tree - and that those households that do are merely filled with self-serving hypocrites who pick and choose what they believe and, out of those choices, they create their own image of a small god and proceed to worship themselves.

Yes, I have wondered that. now the question if this applies to the 'house of god' i.e churches? Around here and, I suspect, throughout the UK, tree are erected in churches and decorated with silver and gold . Also included are 'graven images' of Mary, Joseph, Jesus and various other characters. It looks like the true Christiantm doesn't like in the UK at all!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline G-Roll

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2013, 11:04:26 AM »
http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/19204/eVerseID/19207
Quote
Jeremiah 10:1-5 reveals a principle that we need to consider in terms of Halloween. The context is the heathen practice of idolatry. In this sense, it is ironic that Halloween comes primarily from the Celts, descendants of the Israelites.

God commands us not to learn the way of the Gentiles, the nations who do not have the revelation of God. The Israelites were different from all the nations chiefly because God had revealed Himself to them and given them His law (Deuteronomy 4:5-8; Amos 3:1-2). The Gentiles invented their own futile, meaningless ways of worship because they did not have the truth.

This is the first reason why we should not keep Halloween. It adds nothing good, that is, nothing of God or godliness, to our character. Being devoid of God's truth, it is simply worthless and a waste of time.


Richard T. Ritenbaugh
Halloween
LMAO! That bit of scripture is clearly about Halloween. We all decorate a tree on Halloween right?
I think it's great! You Americans of European decent should drop all the traditions of your ancestors for a desert god. A god from the same desert that Americans have been bitching about and warring with for centuries now. I love telling proud white Christian Americans they worship a guy from the Middle East. You want to piss someone off lay that one on em. HA Jesus the only white guy in the Middle East.

Quote
This whole passage clearly tells us that using a tree in this manner is idolatry. The basic commandment against idolatry, of course, is found in Exodus 20:4-6. If we try to honor God through any sort of idol or icon, we are guilty of breaking this commandment.
So is the cross idolatry? There seems to be at least one cross in every church on an alter facing the praying people. So everyone with a cross around their neck is an idolater? Someone tell Ozzy Osbourne!   

Online wheels5894

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2013, 11:14:20 AM »
Speaking of comedy, take a look at this link which mentions our fare site http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/explaining-the-power-of-prayer-to-non-believers.51564/#post-877723.

It seems that to these Christians we are dogs, swine even, of a fallen society that God cannot help via prayer or any divine intervention because in doing so He would be acting against His judgment against mankind.

Well, I don't know. Not a clue if you ask me - and having a no debate forum too! I suppose their admins view of Christianity is the only one allowed and one cannot argue with that! ... without getting banned anyway!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: Five Reasons Why God Exists
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2013, 03:00:06 PM »
Speaking of comedy, take a look at this link which mentions our fare site http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/explaining-the-power-of-prayer-to-non-believers.51564/#post-877723.

It seems that to these Christians we are dogs, swine even, of a fallen society that God cannot help via prayer or any divine intervention because in doing so He would be acting against His judgment against mankind.

Well, I don't know. Not a clue if you ask me - and having a no debate forum too! I suppose their admins view of Christianity is the only one allowed and one cannot argue with that! ... without getting banned anyway!


Apparently, discussing the possiblity of universal salvation is against the terms of service. 

Yep, can't have Christians discuss whatever happens to make the most sense, they might become atheists.  It's a slippery slope to being rational my friend.

"SHUT HIM UP! I've got a lot invested in this ride, shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry, look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real."
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 03:09:43 PM by SevenPatch »
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks