Author Topic: How do you Prove Perspective?  (Read 1895 times)

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: How do you Prove Perspective?
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2013, 09:15:29 AM »
I really can not believe that you went to nick picking the word prove.  That is a difficult word not to use properly.   So pitiful.

Yet you cannot use "perspective" properly - so what can I say? The question that forms the title is logically wrong and a misuse of the words "prove" and/or "perspective." I think this error has led to confusion - you made the error and now, suddenly, it is my fault.

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Mistakes?  I'd like to see you do better. This planet and the life on it has thrived for millions of years and counting.

Yes and it has done it all without a god.

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The problems of this world are with mankind not God.

This argument is quite wrong. We have arrived at this position because we are how we are. Had we not been territorial, and desperate to reproduce our genes, do you think that we would ever have become the most successful animal on the planet?

We are trying to live in what your god created. You know he created a mess - 2/3rds of the world sea-water; 1/12th of the world desert; 1/12th frozen and a fair portion inadequately fertile to suppost the population: Yes, I could have done better.

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God does not force people to do any thing.
Well, as he doesn't exist other than in your mind, I suppose that is true.

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If I am frank, I don't think anyone could be impressed with that point. What you believe in one specific area does not necessarily influence what you do in another and therefore, and this is common, believers often simply set aside their religious views when solving practical problems. Religion is compartmentalised in the brain.

I was just using the example you gave me. lol  You said the majority rules not me.  So were you right then or are you right now? :?

This is why people have seen you as a troll. That comment discloses an inability to understand simple concepts. I was right both times. It is simply that you do not seem to be able to mentally grasp the concept of "perspective". I don't know why you cannot.

Let me put it in very simple terms: You can use "perspective" to inform an argument. "Perspective" is the thing that you choose when you chose the angles to use in an argument. It is made of "various ways to see" a subject.

You have confused "religious perspective" with "religion." They are totally different.

(I am not trying to be condescending here, nor, I hope, too personal. But it would help me if I knew what grade you reached at school and how well you performed there. I ask this as I spend time explaining English to foreigners and, for those who do not have a good grasp of English, some explanations have to be made very simple. Now, you speak English OK but you seem to have difficulty with some concepts. The trouble is that in many cases, the simpler the explanation that is given, the more likely it is to be a generalisation.)

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What I believe spiritually definitely does influence my behavior.  It dictates how I solve emotional issues especially.  I don't use it to find my car keys.  I use it to deal with my fellow man, for strength, courage and acceptance.  I have used it for strength to fight cancer, childhood abuse, and forgiveness to those that have offended me.  You might be able to do these things w/o spiritual influence but IDK, it helps me deal man.

So, what anyone else would call "character" you think is has something to do with a deity?  Have you ever bothered to ask why God disliked you so much that he put all those troubles on you and not on those that made you suffer? If your god designed the world, he must have known what would happen.

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...and nobody would believe that but it seems to me that God buying beer in Wal-Mart is far more likely than God's making/populating/designing a universe.
I don't believe God operates in the physical world this way.  I do believe God provides us with plenty of food if we could only learn to share it and respect it.

And I was expressing surprise that you thought it more likely that god would buy beer (an simple and understandable event) than create and/or run a universe (a ludicrous claim). Seriously, it is clear that you have never, ever given any thought to the massive complexities of having a being run a universe. It is far, far more complex than life arising on a planet that is suitable for it.

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Maybe my theory is just to complicated for you to understand, I digress

In the beginning, according to science all matter was condensed and then exploded, The Big Bang, right?

I'm saying that while all this matter was condensed that a supreme life form could have been formed there.  What happens when you condense something?  It gets stronger, more powerful, right?

Was not all the matter necessary for life not in this very, very,very,very... highly condensed object?

I don't think "complicated" is correct. I view your "theory"[1] as ill-thought out, with an infantile simplicity. You have no hope whatsoever of being able to support it at all - you have just pulled it out of thin air. You imagine something; you imagine it without any background in cosmology/astrology/physics/etc. and then you produce a god!

This is like imagining some creator that comes out of an egg and then spends all eternity looking after the shell! It makes you wonder "What was the purpose of all that?"

I am disappointed that you have been unable to give a coherent explanation and have resorted to something that simply is not an explanation. I am even more disappointed that you think that this "theory" would, in any way, explain anything or cause anyone to say, "Ah yes, that seems reasonable." 

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You can prove an apple very easily.

No. This only shows me that I was correct in doubting you knew how to use the verb "prove" in English. However, now I know that, I think it would be best to just set the matter to one side and assume that by the title of the thread, you meant "How do you show your opinion is right for you if nobody else has had your experiences?" Your question: "How do you Prove Perspective?" simply does not cut it - it is very poor English and your inability to write clearly has caused members, including LPA and myself, to waste time explaining things to you.

 
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See what I mean one minute you say you can prove perspective then you say you can't.  Getting dizzy here. :o

This has placed me in a very awkward position: I now see that you have difficulty expressing yourself clearly and unambiguously. I now see that your thoughts are somewhat superficial level and you make no attempt to analyse what you have said or what you believe. You have little regard for thinking in a straight line - and yet you want to have a discussion... How are we here going to explain the way we see things if you can't grasp at least a few complex ideas?

Can you help us here?

 1. In fact it does not reach the level of conjecture
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline junebug72

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Re: How do you Prove Perspective?
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2013, 08:26:20 AM »
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Yet you cannot use "perspective" properly - so what can I say? The question that forms the title is logically wrong and a misuse of the words "prove" and/or "perspective." I think this error has led to confusion - you made the error and now, suddenly, it is my fault.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, not really, but you just "proved" my point and then some.  Thanks.  I'm sure you'll try to weasel out of it somehow but I got you.  It seems you actually agree with me but went about it like you don't, interesting behavior. :?

So to answer the post title you can not prove perspective you can not even ask the question.  Got it. 



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This has placed me in a very awkward position: I now see that you have difficulty expressing yourself clearly and unambiguously. I now see that your thoughts are somewhat superficial level and you make no attempt to analyse what you have said or what you believe. You have little regard for thinking in a straight line - and yet you want to have a discussion... How are we here going to explain the way we see things if you can't grasp at least a few complex ideas?

Can you help us here?

At this point I wonder why God won't heal ad hominem. lol  You clearly just need better people skills. lol

It's not me having a hard time grasping the way you see things it is you having a hard time grasping the way I see things. I am a Gemini,  it's easier for me.  I would make sure you were not a Gemini but I'm restricted.lol

This is about as clear as you can get  GB, kindness.

You don't upset me GB, you inspire.  After facing cancer you are not that intimidating.

Are there any English professors on board here?  I thought reading comprehension was about getting inside the author's mind? :?

You know you try to make things impossible on a theist 'round here but nothing is impossible if you set your mind to it!!!

Enough about that.  Back to perspective.  Let's just assume for a moment we are on a level playing field.   Cognitive perspective is clearly defined as thoughts and ideas,"beliefs" and values.  Those are things you can not examine under a microscope.  What you can do is get some willing participants to... hold on wait a minute... STOP THE PRESS!!!  I just had the brain farts of all brain farts.  This is Social Science!!!  Values and beliefs, I think, dangerous words ;), when shared with others is a very powerful, intangible, force.   That's why I proudly believe, gods or not, that you should be careful what you say you believe, really, I do. 

So really go ahead and test my values.  I'm not ashamed of any of it!!!  Just remember that yours is up for grabs as well, if that's okay???
   




Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: How do you Prove Perspective?
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2013, 09:11:27 AM »
Your first thought seems misplaced.  I am not mistaken here AA.  Scientist don't even know what 98% of the universe is composed of.  Ever heard of "dark matter".  2% is not a lot of knowledge.

Not disagreeing that scientists do not know everything.
But i found that your post implied that the lack of knowledge means "god".

I don't have enough time to get into the soul right now.  I go see the radiologist this morning to discuss my radiation treatment.  Plus I need to ponder deeper into my thoughts before answering this very important question.  Thank you for your patience.

Will wait.

One point before I go.  You can't just throw that stuff in a bowl and have a human.  ;)

Using nothing more than those molecules? Perhaps, if said bowl allowed tearing apart atoms, using the protons/electrons/neutrons, and setting them exactly into a human form.

Although, the elements i listed are not what organisms are made of, they are what makes up most of the atmosphere (hence i said it at your breath of life statement).

You don't always get great ideas thinking inside the box.  Do you think once all knowledge is found that our brains will no longer think?  I'm not really sure that would be healthy for us as a species.  Perhaps that's "why" we don't know it all, just saying.

Yesterday was a big day for me.  I got to spend some time with my grandson and oh what joy that fills my soul!!!

Perhaps it is the energy that fuels the brain.  It's what's on the inside that counts, right?  All I can really do here is speculate. I guess/reckon if you don't want to have a soul you don't have to.  I am not a soul professor.  Just a mam maw in the world!!!

I bet you'd be fun to drink a beer with.  Not trying to get fresh, really, just saying I think you're cool! I can't have alcohol!!! I'm sorry to tell you this but I'm happily taken. :)

I know I've been somewhat silly this morning.  That's because I got godded to death yesterday, a sleepless night last night and I'm running on pure adrenaline right now.  With all the Phil what's his name, I know it just ain't gonna say it, stuff yesterday, two very formidable, atheists to talk to here, that brain was pumping it, let me tell you.  Looky there made a new word, how cool is that?  Oops there's another one. I'm on a roll now, somebody stop me please!!!

I'm okay.  Just a scrape it will heal!!!

Have a slendedly, fantastically, super-great,  wonderful day!!!   
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: How do you Prove Perspective?
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2013, 09:47:00 AM »
You don't always get great ideas thinking inside the box.  Do you think once all knowledge is found that our brains will no longer think?

I agree that some ideas are made by thinking outside the box, i frequently do so in video games, works well at times.
But I am afraid science does not work like that.

I also doubt all knowledge will be found.
For that matter, i do not even know if said knowledge could even fit in a human brain.

Yesterday was a big day for me.  I got to spend some time with my grandson and oh what joy that fills my soul!!!

Again, what is this "soul"?
You needs to say more than "it is X" or "it does Y".

Perhaps it is the energy that fuels the brain.

I am afraid we already know what that is.
Its electrons, and chemical energy.

It's what's on the inside that counts, right?  All I can really do here is speculate. I guess/reckon if you don't want to have a soul you don't have to.  I am not a soul professor.  Just a mam maw in the world!!!

If this "soul" is not needed, why attempt to get one? Or for that reason, why do organisms have them anyway?

I bet you'd be fun to drink a beer with.  Not trying to get fresh, really, just saying I think you're cool! I can't have alcohol!!! I'm sorry to tell you this but I'm happily taken. :)

I am regret to announce that i do not like alcohol.
I find it a cause of too many issues, and generally has made several portions of my life irritating.

I know I've been somewhat silly this morning.  That's because I got godded to death yesterday, a sleepless night last night and I'm running on pure adrenaline right now.  With all the Phil what's his name, I know it just ain't gonna say it, stuff yesterday, two very formidable, atheists to talk to here, that brain was pumping it, let me tell you.  Looky there made a new word, how cool is that?  Oops there's another one. I'm on a roll now, somebody stop me please!!!



Have a slendedly, fantastically, super-great,  wonderful day!!!   

This actually made me smile a bit...
That is an accomplishment.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline junebug72

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Re: How do you Prove Perspective?
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2013, 11:44:27 AM »
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Again, what is this "soul"?
You needs to say more than "it is X" or "it does Y".

I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's all I got for now. :D




I get that a lot! :P

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This actually made me smile a bit...
That is an accomplishment.

Mission accomplished!!!

Think happy thoughts, think happy thoughts!!! 


Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: How do you Prove Perspective?
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2013, 01:33:00 PM »


Dang it! I was half way and poof there it goes.  Oh well.

I learned some pretty valuable stuff watching TV.  Still do, :laugh:!!!  If I didn't have The History Channel, Science Channel, Food Network and Jon Stewart I wouldn't know anything!

In some communities that is the only source of information; that or internet.  My point is in communities where there is only Evangelism, TV might be the only way some young people get information that questions what the "elders" say.  Take Happy Feet for instance.  That little penguin showed them all that youth doesn't necessarily mean ignorance. 

I think that what a person "chooses" to watch says a lot about their personality/beliefs/values. 

Finished my shopping up today.  Feeling great. ;)  It's going to be a sweet holiday with my loved ones.  I can't wait to see my grandson.  He just makes my brain release chemicals.  It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside; like I'm floating with my feet on the ground! :laugh:  I made him some homemade applesauce.  He hasn't tried much solid stuff.  Wow he really lapped it up.  I didn't even get to play airplane.  I couldn't get it to him fast enough.  Them's good times right there.  Beats the hell out of karaoke!

Hope every one is enjoying the Season.  Peace out!  If peace is not your thing then :P
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99