Author Topic: I Have No Title  (Read 830 times)

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Offline Nam

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I Have No Title
« on: December 09, 2013, 03:26:39 PM »
Couldn't think of a title.

Anyway, I took my mother to visit her mother's sister in the nursing home today, I mainly stayed outside but because there was too many people in the room not because I didn't want to visit, too.

So, after an hour or two I went back in to get my mom so I could take her shopping (she's in a wheelchair but not bound to it, she can stand and walk periodically) for Christmas cards etc., and before we left they were talking about how since, from their perception, Biblegod is making the weather worse the "End Times" will be coming soon. I rolled my eyes. And, then my mother said something about how she hates it when activists protest against Christians placing nativity scenes in the Courthouses or other city/government property; that when people complain about that, they are wrong to do that. That I spoke out about. I said, "You believe in Separation of Church and State but only if applies to you. That's not separation! You don't want the government in your business then don't put your business into the government. It applies to all, not all except Christians!" My aunt replied, "Courthouses aren't government property." I replied, "It belongs to the county, the county has to follow the laws of the state who in turn have to follow the laws of the federal government, i.e. the Constitution."

She told me I was wrong because if that were true than "In God We Trust" wouldn't be stated in Courthouses.

I actually got snippy with my great aunt for the first time. My mother, not the first nor last. Anyway, I was astonished. I really was.

Disclaimer: please do not say anything negative about my mother or aunt. Speak about the content, not the person(s).

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline The Gawd

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 06:18:33 PM »
Naturally you were correct, and I see the angle you tried to take was even one of less confrontation. Its just one of those things we'll have to deal with. I used to go at it with my mom very often, but not so much over the past year until last weekend. All I can say is I think the tides are shifting. My fundy mother has three non-believing children.

Offline Nam

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 06:57:35 PM »
Naturally you were correct, and I see the angle you tried to take was even one of less confrontation. Its just one of those things we'll have to deal with. I used to go at it with my mom very often, but not so much over the past year until last weekend. All I can say is I think the tides are shifting. My fundy mother has three non-believing children.

My non-fundy but still Christian mother also has three atheist children, four if one counts my brother's wife.

They are both of the belief that Christianity is not a religion. I also rolled my eyes at that. To quote them both, "There are too many religions today, that's why I only believe in Jesus and God." -- realize though: they believe everything in the Bible. They believe people actually lived up to 900+ years. They believe the flood happened. They believe the world is 6,000 years old. They believe the Rapture is soon to come. They believe all of the nonsense that is not only in the Bible but that is the Bible. They believe since they don't attend church that makes them not in a religion even though if they both were able to attend church-they would.

It's baffling. One would think they were conservative Republicans but they are both liberal Democrats.

But they are also both Cafeteria Christians...so, whatever, I guess.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline shnozzola

Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 06:58:52 PM »
It's a slow change for society to realize, "In God We Trust," is wrong, when the much harder, almost impossible truth is, "In Each Other We Trust."  It is our only choice. 

But like so many ironies, since a god never has been there, we've only had ourselves and our fellow man to trust the whole time, no matter how much that scared and continues to scare us.

Good luck, Nam - family is so hard, and only you know which direction will be OK.
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  The real holy trinity:  onion, celery, and bell pepper ~  all Cajun Chefs

Offline jetson

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 07:31:45 PM »
"In God We Trust" is a silly thought, actually.  Even for Christians. Why would a mere human need to trust its creator, the one who has a plan for each of us?  What is the point?  God will do what God will do, so our trust is not necessary.


Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 07:44:50 PM »
We all have flaws (present company excepted, of course  ;)) but religions or religious thought or ideas similar to religious thought are quite capable of contorting already distorted ideas even further. I tend to think that religion is simply an easier excuse to not have to think about it than some of the other excuses (flying saucers, illuminati, NSA (hey, who put the line through that one?). Anyway, people who are more interested in their own opinions than the truth have an assortment of excuses/wrong things to choose from.

I have a friend who is vehemently against abortion but everywhere we go he constantly complains that there are too many people. "Where do they all come from?" he always asks. I have a step-sister who isn't really all that aware that there are other people on the planet. She gets on the freeway, sets her cruise control to the posted speed limit, and sits in the left hand lane, and then she complains about all the rude people who are always passing on the right and sending her encrypted hand signals. My 300lb+ brother and his almost as large wife can sit in a restaurant and lean over to me to whisper "We can't believe that there are so many fat people in here!".

Such distortion appears universal. Your atheism probably made the things your mom and great-aunt were saying seem a bit more ridiculous, so it was more obvious to you than some of the other equally, but non-religious, wrong-thinking that people can exhibit. Luckily, they aren't the ones causing the bad problems, especially if they aren't voting for the worst of two idiots at election time. If they are anything like those I know with similar foibles, there is no enlightening them. The most we can hope for is the continuing ability to identify such flaws, so that we can, as much as possible, avoid joining the madding crowd.

Edit:(I know my english is terrible but I just edited some spelling Nam would give me grief about)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 07:47:15 PM by ParkingPlaces »
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 08:08:52 PM »
Edit:(I know my english is terrible but I just edited some spelling Nam would give me grief about)

I would. But only 'cause I care.

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline SevenPatch

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2013, 04:52:05 PM »
It makes sense.  Some things are easier to believe than the truth.

I think the reason people are willing to believe in a young Earth/universe has more to do with human comprehension than religion.  I recently tried to give context to 65 million years in my own way.  I thought about what it would be like to watch the same 2 hour movie over and over again.  It would have to be a good movie at least.  So, first, what if I was able to watch this same 2 hour movie for 6 thousand years, how many times could I potentially watch it in a row? I could potentially watch that 2 hour movie 26,280,000 times.  Wow that is a lot.  Now, imagine that all of human history for the past 6 thousand years was a  movie.  How many times could we watch that 6 thousand years long movie in 65 million years?  10,833 times. 

That is amazing right!  A period of six thousand years happened ten thousand eight hundred and thirty three times in 65 million years.  The last six thousand years saw the rise of human civilization, from a period where man began using various tools to begin constructing shelter and stone monuments until now in an age where we are capable of space flight.

For me at least it is very difficult to comprehend millions of years let alone billions of years.  I can barely imagine watching my favorite movie 10 times in a row and not being completely bored out of my mind, let alone trying to watch it repeatedly over 10 thousand times.

It’s easy to see why the human mind naturally believes things it can comprehend.  This is why we have to first acknowledge that our minds are often wrong in their comprehension and perceptions.  This is why verifiable evidence and testability is all so important.
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline Graybeard

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2013, 06:02:11 PM »
Couldn't think of a title.
The title you were looking for was there all the time: "In God We Trust" - your aunt and mum do, don't they?

In the battle for minds and hearts, those over 75 are exempt from service and are not to be considered enemy combatants except if they put themselves up as public pundits and/or own God-TV and/or megachurches.

Ec:1:17: And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.

See! Arguing with them is just vexation of their spirit.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2013, 06:14:49 PM »
It is easy to believe that the “end times” are close when we are so very aware of disasters and terrible things happening these days.  All of it is very hard to comprehend, it leads one to assume that everything must be coming to an end.

I try to put things in context myself.  I couldn’t imagine living as a 31 year old during the 1930’s and 1940’s during world war 2.  So many terrible things happened during that time.  Millions being killed and all of it leading up to humans actually detonating a weapon of vast power and destruction known as the A-Bomb upon other humans.  Truly if the world and human race were to have ended, it would have ended on August 6th, 1945.

Maybe during the middle ages when plagues killed millions of people and war was common place during a time which is commonly perceived as the dark ages.   Imagine if mass media existed back then.  Instead of school closing messages at the bottom of the TV screen during a snow storm you would have seen the death total per town during a plague outbreak. 

The human race has been through countless terrible times which must have felt like “end times” but the human race is resourceful and capable of adapting.  I don’t think even the worst case scenario of global warming could finish us off.  All out nuclear war might be capable of finishing us off but I still feel like a few hundred thousand people would survive.   

There are a few things that could finish us off for certain that I can think of, perhaps a comet/meteor large enough to destroy all life on Earth.  A direct gamma ray burst from a hypernova   The sun exploding for some unforeseen reason maybe. A rogue black hole perhaps. 

Still, why worry about things we probably couldn’t stop from happening anyway.  It’s the things we can do something about that we should worry about.
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline Nam

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2013, 06:07:03 AM »
Couldn't think of a title.
The title you were looking for was there all the time: "In God We Trust" - your aunt and mum do, don't they?

In the battle for minds and hearts, those over 75 are exempt from service and are not to be considered enemy combatants except if they put themselves up as public pundits and/or own God-TV and/or megachurches.

Ec:1:17: And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.

See! Arguing with them is just vexation of their spirit.

My mom is 59 years old.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Graybeard

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2013, 07:36:18 AM »
OK... She's fair game. She still has time to repent and de-convert. You've got an uphill battle though: (i) she knows you better than you know her; (ii) You are still 12 year old, naughty little Nam to her (iii) as a consequence, you have little authority. : )
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Hatter23

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2013, 10:41:08 AM »

It's baffling. One would think they were conservative Republicans but they are both liberal Democrats.


-Nam

Let me guess. They have rural roots. You will actually find that not uncommon of older rural people who were more or less saved by the policies of FDR.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline screwtape

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2013, 04:06:48 PM »
Disclaimer: please do not say anything negative about my mother or aunt. Speak about the content, not the person(s).

Interesting.  You are sensitive about them.  That is kind of nice, I think.  The interesting part is the fact that you feel free to say anything to anyone, regardless of how it makes them feel. 

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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2013, 10:22:22 PM »
Couldn't think of a title.

Anyway, I took my mother to visit her mother's sister in the nursing home today, I mainly stayed outside but because there was too many people in the room not because I didn't want to visit, too.

So, after an hour or two I went back in to get my mom so I could take her shopping (she's in a wheelchair but not bound to it, she can stand and walk periodically) for Christmas cards etc., and before we left they were talking about how since, from their perception, Biblegod is making the weather worse the "End Times" will be coming soon. I rolled my eyes. And, then my mother said something about how she hates it when activists protest against Christians placing nativity scenes in the Courthouses or other city/government property; that when people complain about that, they are wrong to do that. That I spoke out about. I said, "You believe in Separation of Church and State but only if applies to you. That's not separation! You don't want the government in your business then don't put your business into the government. It applies to all, not all except Christians!" My aunt replied, "Courthouses aren't government property." I replied, "It belongs to the county, the county has to follow the laws of the state who in turn have to follow the laws of the federal government, i.e. the Constitution."

She told me I was wrong because if that were true than "In God We Trust" wouldn't be stated in Courthouses.

I actually got snippy with my great aunt for the first time. My mother, not the first nor last. Anyway, I was astonished. I really was.

Disclaimer: please do not say anything negative about my mother or aunt. Speak about the content, not the person(s).

-Nam

Sounds like the classic challenge between faith and reason.  Put another way, applying objective arguments to a subjective viewpoint will never accomplish anything. 

There is a theory of human behavior that says people get upset when they perceive they have lost control of the situation.  Did you feel you were losing control of the conversation? 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
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Offline Nam

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2013, 12:52:46 PM »
Disclaimer: please do not say anything negative about my mother or aunt. Speak about the content, not the person(s).

Interesting.  You are sensitive about them.  That is kind of nice, I think.  The interesting part is the fact that you feel free to say anything to anyone, regardless of how it makes them feel. 



Wrong. I look at it this way: I don't talk about your family, you don't talk about mine. Now, if one wants to talk about what they say, that's not talking about them in a negative way, because it's only reflected on their opinion (whether they view them as facts or not is irrelevant), not personal and/or non-related things.

Like, I'm sure, for most people: I[1] can say negative things about them because they're my family but you can't. Sort of like stating US citizens can talk negatively about US citizens but many get upset if an non-US citizen does.

-Nam
 1. "I" being used in general
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline screwtape

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2013, 11:43:38 PM »
Wrong. I look at it this way:

That is[\i] one way of looking at it.  And not really surprising either.  Sort of self serving, don't you think?

Another is people are sensitive about different things.  And you want one standard for how you get to treat people and another for how they must treat you. 
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Offline Nam

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2013, 06:36:40 PM »
Wrong. I look at it this way:

That is[\i] one way of looking at it.  And not really surprising either.  Sort of self serving, don't you think?

Another is people are sensitive about different things.  And you want one standard for how you get to treat people and another for how they must treat you. 

People can do or say what they wish to me but if they open with insults toward subject(s) that really have nothing to do with anything, then, everything becomes fair game in my eyes. Though I would prefer civility when it comes to such things, thus the disclaimer, I have absolutely no problem with incivility (as you know) when lines are crossed. Despite what anyone thinks of me: even I respect certain boundaries.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Boots

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Re: I Have No Title
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2013, 02:58:32 PM »
(ii) You are still 12 year old, naughty little Nam to her

whadayamean "to her??"    ;)
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