Author Topic: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...  (Read 532 times)

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If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« on: December 04, 2013, 12:51:36 PM »
12 Monkeys asked Skep a question today, and it got me thinking.

He asked: "I have often wondered what the knowledge of good and evil has to do with a persons morality?"

Which got me to thinking. What if Eve had been the "good little girl" that she was supposed to be and had, as per instructed, left the tree alone?

As I see it, the world would look like this today:

One big garden, no irrigation system (it never rained before the flood). I assume god would take care of the watering but we wouldn't know or appreciate that because we would have no knowledge of what arid conditions or drought was like, and we wouldn't appreciate his efforts.

We would all be vegetarians, running around naked, being absolutely wonderful to each other because we would be incapable of anything else.

We would all speak the same language, know the names of every animal, which would seem a little weird because saying "Hi, Lion" to every lion would get old. And we could say hi to them because they would be vegetarians too. And Disney-level cute, I'm sure. Even the monitor lizards.

So we would be naked, romping around with grizzlies and pumas and snakes with legs (oh yea, and T. Rex's), eating broccoli and brussels sprouts (well, eden sprouts), with no need to do anything because food would be free. Septic services would be provided by god (I guess, who knows where poop goes in Eden) and we would be spending all our time obediently praising him, though we wouldn't have the slightest idea why we had it so good because we would have no knowledge of any alternatives to the Marxist level equality he had given us.

Oh, and we'd all be white like Jesus but we wouldn't know who Jesus was. Well, of course we wouldn't all be white because only pagans were white. We'd be some other color but we wouldn't even notice because we'd all be exactly the same.

We'd all live an average of 900 years, happy every minute because no other emotion would be available.

Oh, and we would be going forth and multiplying with our brothers and sisters and cousins and we'd be free to covet our neighbors wife because there would be no rules against it and childbirth would be painless.

The whole thing would be one big long Hawaiian vacation without having to worry about having enough airline miles. Of course, we'd miss out on the grass skirts as well. Bummer.

The only blemish in or perfected reality would be that we would be wondering WTF was up with that one tree over there. The one that we had been instructed not to go near, or eat of.

Hell is starting to sound even better.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2013, 12:59:57 PM »
added: This gives me a great idea..

The next time a JW or other doorknocker comes to your house, casually say this: "You do realize that if Eve hadn't eaten of that tree you and I would both be naked right now."

The little old lady who handed me a tract a few months back would have had a heart attack.

As a guy, I wouldn't use it on those little mormon boys who come around occasionally. I'd probably get arrested for child abuse or something.

But I gotta use that some day. Now I can't wait for the next JW drive by.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 01:20:44 PM »
But what about the Talking SnakeTM?

After some 6000 [sic] years of having his offer rebuffed, I wonder if he'd have upped the ante. Perhaps a new car?

Being that Eden is all green and that, he'd probably have to skip the McLaren P1 and head straight for the hybrid LaFerrari. I hope that leather isn't too sticky what with everyone being naked though?
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool -- Richard Feynman
You are in a maze of twisty little religions, all alike -- xyzzy

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 01:28:09 PM »
But what about the Talking SnakeTM?

After some 6000 [sic] years of having his offer rebuffed, I wonder if he'd have upped the ante. Perhaps a new car?

Being that Eden is all green and that, he'd probably have to skip the McLaren P1 and head straight for the hybrid LaFerrari. I hope that leather isn't too sticky what with everyone being naked though?

Well, I am of course assuming that we would all have the willpower to avoid the dude. Who would still have legs. Cute.

And he couldn't up the ante. There would be no McLaren P1's to offer. We'd all be to busy praising god and having sex to build stuff. Which is a good thing. You ever buckled up in a full racing harness while naked, sitting in leather bucket seats. Methinks that would not be pleasant.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 02:21:33 PM »

Which got me to thinking. What if Eve had been the "good little girl" that she was supposed to be and had, as per instructed, left the tree alone?


And what if Persephone hadn't eaten of the pomegranite, so there would be no winter....

Always trouble from women and their inability to resist fruit.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline Aaron123

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 02:31:15 PM »
Well, I am of course assuming that we would all have the willpower to avoid the dude. Who would still have legs. Cute.

And he couldn't up the ante. There would be no McLaren P1's to offer. We'd all be to busy praising god and having sex to build stuff. Which is a good thing. You ever buckled up in a full racing harness while naked, sitting in leather bucket seats. Methinks that would not be pleasant.


Well, maybe Satan could go to Pandora and talk to her about that box she has.


If not the Yahweh trap, then the Zeus trap will work just as well.
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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 02:46:35 PM »
Well, if you put it like that then it sounds somewhat boring. Although, we would not know that as we'd have no knowledge of anything else.

Now, with no knowledge of the alternative, our praise would ring hollow. "Thank you for things being as good as they are. I don't know any better but I thank you for them being the best they could possibly be. Based on your word. Which I have nothing to compare it to. But I know you are telling me the truth. Except that I don't know of any alternatives to it. But thanks anyway. Whatever that means".

Still, seeing as how a perfect being allowed things to progress from perfection to the presence of the Kardashians, it makes one wonder if the whole thing was planned in advance. Well, assuming it wasn't made up, of course.

Finally, as to PP's last question - a lot depends upon the company.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool -- Richard Feynman
You are in a maze of twisty little religions, all alike -- xyzzy

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 09:04:34 PM »
But what would we do with the "intelligent design" that Skeptic tells us about,if we all got along like that where would the cockroach wasp lay its eggs?,why would a snake need venom? what would we do with the rat population with no predators?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 09:07:49 PM »
added: This gives me a great idea..

The next time a JW or other doorknocker comes to your house, casually say this: "You do realize that if Eve hadn't eaten of that tree you and I would both be naked right now."

The little old lady who handed me a tract a few months back would have had a heart attack.

As a guy, I wouldn't use it on those little mormon boys who come around occasionally. I'd probably get arrested for child abuse or something.

But I gotta use that some day. Now I can't wait for the next JW drive by.
LMAO,the next time I answer a JW I will be naked and use that line,,,,,A little old lady used to come around my house,sadly now she just passes by (scared to knock at my door)
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 09:12:27 PM »
Everyone would eat radishes and fig leaves. No need for predation, venom, cockroaches scurrying around in the dark, none of that stuff. I'm talking paradise here. No politicians, no lawyers (but I repeat myself!). And we wouldn't even know that we were bored for those 900 or so years we would live, on average. And heaven would just be more of the same, but without a deadline. Sounds perfect to me.

Not!
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 09:12:42 PM »
Well, if you put it like that then it sounds somewhat boring. Although, we would not know that as we'd have no knowledge of anything else.

Now, with no knowledge of the alternative, our praise would ring hollow. "Thank you for things being as good as they are. I don't know any better but I thank you for them being the best they could possibly be. Based on your word. Which I have nothing to compare it to. But I know you are telling me the truth. Except that I don't know of any alternatives to it. But thanks anyway. Whatever that means".

Still, seeing as how a perfect being allowed things to progress from perfection to the presence of the Kardashians, it makes one wonder if the whole thing was planned in advance. Well, assuming it wasn't made up, of course.

Finally, as to PP's last question - a lot depends upon the company.
Ever watch the twilight zone movie where the kid has powers and can kill on a whim if they are not happy or behave out of line 

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Offline SevenPatch

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 08:06:20 AM »
Ironically in this scenario there would be no Bible or religion.  No Moses, Jesus or Mohammad.  No war, no dark ages, renaissance, and maybe even no science and thus no evolution or physics.  No reason to go to the moon.  No reason to enslave others.

All the evil that has occurred and maybe most of the good would never have occurred had Eve not eaten that fruit from that cursed tree in which that shady talking snake was hanging around.

Even if a Christian makes it past the creation story (yeah okay six days, I guess God could do that, why not), once you get to the tree, the BS meter should be off the charts.  Why the heck is this tree even available!?!  A test?  A test of what, to see how stupid it would be to tempt a couple dumb kids with nothing better to do than try new things?  Why would this God set up humans to fall (fail), then punish them.  What kind of jerk does that?!?

So right there, built in to the religion, god had the opportunity to get rid of evil but either chose not to or couldn't.  Maybe god was tired from creating the universe?  Probably should have planned the work week better, maybe spread those six days over a couple months or something.

Is God a poor planner?  Perhaps god should have created MS planner?  I think there is a free version that god could download.
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Offline rev45

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 10:23:10 AM »
NonStampCollector has addressed this.
Here read a book.  It's free.
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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2013, 12:43:15 PM »
And if everyone is being fruitful and multiplying, and there is no death (even those lifespans of 500+ years seem to have kicked in after the fall), how long would it be before we ran out of space?

The rabbits alone would have overrun the planet way before now. Or was it just people who were to multiply, and the animals stayed at some status quo just for decoration? Not sure what else they would have been good for.

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2013, 01:00:35 PM »
And if everyone is being fruitful and multiplying, and there is no death (even those lifespans of 500+ years seem to have kicked in after the fall), how long would it be before we ran out of space?

The rabbits alone would have overrun the planet way before now. Or was it just people who were to multiply, and the animals stayed at some status quo just for decoration? Not sure what else they would have been good for.
So this is sort of an aside, but this and ParkingPlaces' earlier post got me wondering about this whole procreation business in relation to the Adam and Eve story.

Is there a concept of birth actually mentioned in Genesis before The Fall?  Like, actual childbirth as we understand it today?  In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, god poofed a bunch of life.  Or manufactured some out of dirt or something.  But in any case, I guess I don't fully understand how procreation was supposed to fit into the 'divine plan' (whatever that was supposed to be).  I mean - initially, god made Adam and said "awesomesauce".  It was only later when god decided that Adam was going to be a pretty lonely cat that god decides to construct Eve (as a help-meet or whatever poorly worded, unclear phrase is used).  But there was no mention of "and here's Eve, and if you get busy with her, out comes babies" or any somesuch divine discourse on the subject, was there?

Was spawning even in the divine plan in the first place?  Was there supposed to be multiplying in Eden?  If so, was it something of a male/female kinda thing or what?  What was the nature of child-birth prior to Eve being cursed?  Was it supposed to involve Eve initially, or did god initially forget to create another member of his most loved creatures such that they could actually procreate and produce more?  Or was the nature of procreation intended to be asexual in some way?

Or was the original divine plan for god to continue poofing more creatures into existence?  Or did he create some ideal set number of living entities in Eden?

Are these questions stupid?
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Offline Backspace

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2013, 03:25:53 PM »
Quote
2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

Always been curious how the Genesis story would have turned out if Adam had hooked up with an animal.

Quote
2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Anyone know where Adam was before Wrongweh created the garden and plunked him down in it?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 03:27:41 PM by Backspace »
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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2013, 07:46:39 PM »
Adam was in self-storage with the dragons, unicorns and leprechauns. They are still there.
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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2013, 08:08:50 PM »
Adam was in self-storage with the dragons, unicorns and leprechauns. They are still there.

How do you know?

;)

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2013, 08:14:07 PM »
Adam must have been somewhere where we can't find him, else we'd have found him. But he was really there.

If, in the future, it turns out that we can look wherever it is that we were told he was in, and he wasn't there, that will be because he was always somewhere else where we really couldn't find him. In that case, it was that fallible humans were simply mistaken in thinking he was in the place where we thought we couldn't look, but could, and that he was really, honestly, in that other place. Unless, of course, he's also not there but that's only because...
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool -- Richard Feynman
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2013, 09:29:38 PM »
Adam was in self-storage with the dragons, unicorns and leprechauns. They are still there.

How do you know?

;)

-Nam
Have you seen any lately ? Bigfoot and Loch Ness are there as well.
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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2013, 10:07:35 PM »
Adam was in self-storage with the dragons, unicorns and leprechauns. They are still there.

How do you know?

;)

-Nam
Have you seen any lately ? Bigfoot and Loch Ness are there as well.

I thought Sultan Kösen was Bigfoot?

;)

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

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Offline wolfunchained

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Re: If Eve hadn't taken of the fruit...
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2013, 03:51:17 AM »
Totally love this topic!  The original post lays put a great scenario.

The thing that i never questioned as a former christian was, if God is perfect, Why did he absoloutly screw up the first 2 people to ever walk the earth?? Surely a god would create perfect beings especially  as god created them knowing that they would sin, because god knows everything from start to finish as taught by all christian churches.

Picture it...god forming adam out of the dust in the ground saying to himself, "well i know im gonna create eve from his rib tomorrow and she is going to listen to the talking snake that i also created (woopsie, silly creation that was) and then because of that ill have to go down to earth in human form and be nailed to a cross, to save the entire human race from the sins that adam amd eve did."

Surely at that point god would have thought, " bugger that, think ill go have a mars bar and a game of ping pong"

he couldve avoided the whole situation of sin by not creating lucifer or sin or adam or eve.

Reality is.....a talking snake is just bollocks!!
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