Author Topic: Hybridization  (Read 615 times)

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Hybridization
« on: December 03, 2013, 12:16:27 AM »
Are we the bastard offspring of a female chimpanzee and a male pig?

http://www.macroevolution.net/human-origins.html

Quote
Rationale

So why do I think humans are hybrids? Well, first of all, I've had a different experience from most people. I've spent most of my life (the last thirty years) studying hybrids, particularly avian and mammalian hybrids. I've read thousands, really tens of thousands, of reports describing them. And this experience has dispelled some mistaken ideas I once had about hybrids, notions that I think many other people continue to take for granted.

For example, one widespread, but erroneous, belief is that all hybrids are sterile. This idea keeps a lot of people from even considering the possibility that humans might be of hybrid origin. This assertion is absolutely false — though I have in fact heard lots of people make it. For instance, in reviewing the reports I collected for my book on hybridization in birds (Handbook of Avian Hybrids of the World, Oxford University Press, 2006), which documents some 4,000 different kinds of hybrid crosses among birds, I found that those crosses producing partially fertile hybrids are about eight times as common as crosses known to produce sterile ones. The usual result is a reduction in fertility, not absolute sterility. My current work documenting hybridization among mammals shows that partially fertile natural hybrids are common, too, in Class Mammalia. And yet, it seems most people base their ideas of hybrids on the common mule (horse x ass), which is an exceptionally sterile hybrid, and not at all representative of hybrids as a whole.





{We seem to be suggesting that our Evolution, I suppose, from the animal kingdom
Into the human kingdom itself was catalyzed, or, or triggered by our encounter with these hallucinogenics, and}

{Yes, we are an ape with a symbiotic relationship to a mushroom, and that has given us self-reflection, language, religion and all the spectrum of effects that flow from these things}

{And one can only wonder how these hallucinogens might effect our future
Evolution as well}

{They have brought us to this point, and as we make our relationship to them conscious, we may be able to take control of our future evolutionary path}

{Hallucinogenic chemicals have supposed to have had an enormous impact on shaping psychotic and various cultures both pre-literate and literate, there is definitely some kind of monolith}


Yup

Makes much more sense than some magical sky daddy with a super ego complex.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 12:26:10 AM by Mr. Blackwell »
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Online Nam

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2013, 01:31:59 AM »
Um...

South Park rulez!

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline rev45

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2013, 08:44:23 AM »
My biology professor brought this up in our last lecture.  He said that while it's an interesting idea, he wouldn't subscribe to it yet. 
Here read a book.  It's free.
http://www.literatureproject.com/

Could a being create the fifty billion galaxies, each with two hundred billion stars, then rejoice in the smell of burning goat flesh?   Ron Patterson

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2013, 10:19:48 AM »
My biology professor brought this up in our last lecture.  He said that while it's an interesting idea, he wouldn't subscribe to it yet. 

Lyar!

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline rev45

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2013, 10:51:59 AM »
Here read a book.  It's free.
http://www.literatureproject.com/

Could a being create the fifty billion galaxies, each with two hundred billion stars, then rejoice in the smell of burning goat flesh?   Ron Patterson

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2013, 05:49:42 PM »
My biology professor brought this up in our last lecture.  He said that while it's an interesting idea, he wouldn't subscribe to it yet.

Naturally.

1. There is not enough evidence to fully support the theory.

2. It goes against established understanding. It would need a mountain of evidence to come close to challenging the current dominant paradigm. Then it will suffer a similar "stumbling block" for current evolution theory if there are missing links.

3. Unless this IS the missing link.

For some reason I am reminded of Animal Farm...I shall have to re read that soon.
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

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A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Online Jag

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2013, 10:39:23 PM »
My biology professor brought this up in our last lecture.  He said that while it's an interesting idea, he wouldn't subscribe to it yet.
Hmm, I don't have biology again until Monday and I'm curious to know what my professor will have to say. I think he's getting an email from me before then so I can ask him about it.

Warning  ;D I'm going to have a "squeee!" moment about being in school, because oh my Darwin, I'm loving it!

As much as I love this place and all the things I learn here, I'm almost giddy from having professors so readily available to me to clarify the science topics that I don't understand very well. Prior to this semester, I hadn't been in a science classroom in almost (eek) 30 years - there were a lot of holes in my knowledge, and still are. I've done a fairly good job keeping somewhat up to speed on new developments and discoveries on the topics I'm personally intrigued by, but there are a lot of things I really only superficially understand, certainly not well enough to explain to someone else, but enough to be able to have conversations with a few smarter-than-me people I know IRL. My son among them - he's one of those people who just seem to "get" stuff like physics without any real effort.

I've picked up a lot of things I knew nothing about from here, and have done some research on my own as well. But there's really no substitute for being in-person with someone who understands the specific topic, and has a Very Large Whiteboard available.

It helps when they also have a sense of humor and patience - as long as they continue trying to explain, I continue trying to understand. This is absolutely not the experience I would have had if I'd gone to college straight from high school.

Ok, "squeee" moment over.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2013, 10:51:18 PM »


Warning  ;D I'm going to have a "squeee!" moment about being in school, because oh my Darwin, I'm loving it!

As much as I love this place and all the things I learn here, I'm almost giddy from having professors so readily available to me to clarify the science topics that I don't understand very well. Prior to this semester, I hadn't been in a science classroom in almost (eek) 30 years - there were a lot of holes in my knowledge, and still are. I've done a fairly good job keeping somewhat up to speed on new developments and discoveries on the topics I'm personally intrigued by, but there are a lot of things I really only superficially understand, certainly not well enough to explain to someone else, but enough to be able to have conversations with a few smarter-than-me people I know IRL. My son among them - he's one of those people who just seem to "get" stuff like physics without any real effort.

I've picked up a lot of things I knew nothing about from here, and have done some research on my own as well. But there's really no substitute for being in-person with someone who understands the specific topic, and has a Very Large Whiteboard available.

It helps when they also have a sense of humor and patience - as long as they continue trying to explain, I continue trying to understand. This is absolutely not the experience I would have had if I'd gone to college straight from high school.

Ok, "squeee" moment over.

Good for you Jag. I wish I was more scientifically enclined.

I'm going to go ahead and shamelessly boast about my clever wife though, who despite suffering a form as Aspergers and never finishing school, has just completed her first full year of a Medical Laboaratory Science degree. 8 subjects, lowest average percentage 85, highest 98.

This is the smart lady I speak of:



I am punching above my weight, clearly. Sweet!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 11:00:19 PM by magicmiles »
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Online Nam

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2013, 10:59:19 PM »
Ok, "squeee" moment over.

That's your "orgasm" sound, ain't it?

;)

lol!

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Online Jag

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2013, 11:22:17 PM »
Ok, "squeee" moment over.

That's your "orgasm" sound, ain't it?

;)

lol!

-Nam
:blank:
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Offline SocialConstruct

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2013, 09:10:58 AM »
If this is true, then a DNA test should be able to prove this easily.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2014, 01:10:40 AM »
Hmm, I don't have biology again until Monday and I'm curious to know what my professor will have to say. I think he's getting an email from me before then so I can ask him about it.

Well...what did he say?

If this is true, then a DNA test should be able to prove this easily.

How do you figure?
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Hybridization
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2014, 10:37:45 AM »
Hmmm... back on track...

Is it not so that species are described as “those that are only capable of breeding with their own species and producing viable young ”? (i.e. No crocoducks.)

The question of sterility is variable. Within the genome of a male of one species and a female of another, the combination may produce fertile, non-fertile or a level of fertility in between.

One would suspect that the less complex the parent life-forms the more likely it is that fertile offspring would be produced – however, there may well be exceptions both ways to this which is caused by specific DNA structures.

As a simplistic example, we could take electrical plugs and sockets: The UK three-pin plug will fit into any UK 3-pin socket and provide power. Some other plugs may fit into the lower 2 holes in the socket and sometimes provide power and sometimes not.

The question of hybridisation is further limited by prey and prey species not breeding for obvious reasons and by some species never naturally encountering others members.

Although at one level “hybrid” is understood, at another, it is a very complicated concept and, my thought is that way back, when all life forms were of limited speciality it is likely that species were not well defined and interbred until such time as offspring were produced that were not viable for one reason or another. All this was simply grist to the mill of mindless nature.








Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”