Author Topic: The Power of the Lord  (Read 2661 times)

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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2013, 11:43:27 AM »
The problem is that you're just posting Youtube videos and presenting them as 'evidence' of supernatural happenings.  It isn't very convincing, especially since there's nothing at all showing us that the videos aren't faked or modified.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2013, 11:44:29 AM »
Is it not easier just to talk of anything? Folks, you are really astonishing me.
To talk of anything?  Sure, I suppose.  What's your opinion on Thanos?  Is he actually the only being worthy of controlling the Infinity Gauntlet?  What if Adam Warlock had it?  Should The Living Tribunal interfere in such matters or not?  This would be a pretty easy-going conversation[1].

Of course you don't mean anything.  You've got specific topics in mind.  Like the existence of god.

In that case, the conversations will be pretty difficult with you, provided I am reading you correctly:

Christianity - lie of god.
All rest religions - lie of fallen angels.

So, yes, I'm founding on christianity.
Your basis of conversation is a lie created by an omnipotent, omniscient god.  That you think that any productive conversation can result from that premise is what's astonishing.
 1. unless you're a fanboy - then the gloves come off
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Jailed

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2013, 11:54:32 AM »
Is it not easier just to talk of anything? Folks, you are really astonishing me.
To talk of anything?  Sure, I suppose.  What's your opinion on Thanos?  Is he actually the only being worthy of controlling the Infinity Gauntlet?  What if Adam Warlock had it?  Should The Living Tribunal interfere in such matters or not?  This would be a pretty easy-going conversation[1].

Of course you don't mean anything.  You've got specific topics in mind.  Like the existence of god.

In that case, the conversations will be pretty difficult with you, provided I am reading you correctly:

Christianity - lie of god.
All rest religions - lie of fallen angels.

So, yes, I'm founding on christianity.
Your basis of conversation is a lie created by an omnipotent, omniscient god.  That you think that any productive conversation can result from that premise is what's astonishing.
 1. unless you're a fanboy - then the gloves come off

Something, not anything of course.

Offline Jailed

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2013, 12:01:17 PM »
The problem is that you're just posting Youtube videos and presenting them as 'evidence' of supernatural happenings.  It isn't very convincing, especially since there's nothing at all showing us that the videos aren't faked or modified.

The problem is that many things are around you. But for all of them you prefer to think up explanations forgetting of principle "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity".

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2013, 12:03:15 PM »
Once this new guy said that god might not always do good things, but he definitely exists, I began to get a Muslim vibe......also the angel on the Kaaba thing. Why would a Christian give any credence to the Muslim holy site?

Whatever. We need that shrug emoticon from IGI. :P

I'm getting a Muslim vibe as well.

Especially with this quote which a bunch of people have quoted while I was just off looking for it:

Quote
Christianity - lie of god.
All rest religions - lie of fallen angels.

So, yes, I'm founding on christianity.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but it doesn't altogether imply that he is Christian.

Has he said?

Jailed, could you please clarify what religion you belong to?

Offline jdawg70

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2013, 12:06:36 PM »
In that case, the conversations will be pretty difficult with you, provided I am reading you correctly:

Christianity - lie of god.
All rest religions - lie of fallen angels.

So, yes, I'm founding on christianity.
Your basis of conversation is a lie created by an omnipotent, omniscient god.  That you think that any productive conversation can result from that premise is what's astonishing.

Something, not anything of course.
I kind of figured what I had said above would have been a conversation starter.  You know, clarify what it is you mean, correct where (if) I'm in error.  All that jazz.

jynnan tonnix did it better.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Jailed

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2013, 12:22:29 PM »
Once this new guy said that god might not always do good things, but he definitely exists, I began to get a Muslim vibe......also the angel on the Kaaba thing. Why would a Christian give any credence to the Muslim holy site?

Whatever. We need that shrug emoticon from IGI. :P

I'm getting a Muslim vibe as well.

Especially with this quote which a bunch of people have quoted while I was just off looking for it:

Quote
Christianity - lie of god.
All rest religions - lie of fallen angels.

So, yes, I'm founding on christianity.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but it doesn't altogether imply that he is Christian.

Has he said?

Jailed, could you please clarify what religion you belong to?

Look, god could simply be present all the time among us like he does it with angels. Right? But he do not so. Why? Have you ever asked this question to yourself? Because we, people, should be in ignorance. What does it mean, religion? Religion means belief. What does it mean, belief? Belief means absence of reliable information. So you must admit that religion is, as minimum, concealment of information. So god, as minimum, deliberately confuses us.

Is it not lie de facto? Actually god lies not only de facto, but and de jure too. But  to admit this you should fully open your mind.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2013, 12:28:26 PM »
Look, god could simply be present all the time among us like he does it with angels. Right? But he do not so. Why? Have you ever asked this question to yourself? Because we, people, should be in ignorance. What does it mean, religion? Religion means belief. What does it mean, belief? Belief means absence of reliable information. So you must admit that religion is, as minimum, concealment of information. So god, as minimum, deliberately confuses us.

Is it not lie de facto? Actually god lies not only de facto, but and de jure too. But  to admit this you should fully open your mind.
The problem is that many things are around you. But for all of them you prefer to think up explanations forgetting of principle "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity".
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2013, 12:29:26 PM »
Man, this guy sounds like Skeptic. Skeptic hasn't made a comment since the 8th (but has logged in), and this guy joins the next day on the 9th, and they both sound the same.

"materialism", the "insect" thing, grammar etc.,

-Nam

Nam, please. I have things to do in life. I can't be glued to the screen 24/7.

I don't have 2 names. That is childish, nor would I be endorsing the demonic Islamic religion.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jailed

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2013, 12:37:56 PM »
Look, god could simply be present all the time among us like he does it with angels. Right? But he do not so. Why? Have you ever asked this question to yourself? Because we, people, should be in ignorance. What does it mean, religion? Religion means belief. What does it mean, belief? Belief means absence of reliable information. So you must admit that religion is, as minimum, concealment of information. So god, as minimum, deliberately confuses us.

Is it not lie de facto? Actually god lies not only de facto, but and de jure too. But  to admit this you should fully open your mind.
The problem is that many things are around you. But for all of them you prefer to think up explanations forgetting of principle "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity".

What is easier - one god, existence of which explains everything, or to create explanation for each case? 

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #68 on: December 10, 2013, 01:13:20 PM »
Is it not lie de facto? Actually god lies not only de facto, but and de jure too. But  to admit this you should fully open your mind.

All of the lies are human. God can't do those latiny things; he's hampered too much by not existing.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #69 on: December 10, 2013, 01:14:39 PM »
What is easier - one god, existence of which explains everything, or to create explanation for each case?

By definition, it is easy to keep things simple. Just ignore all complexity and all evidence to the contrary. Religious folks do it all the time. So yea, if you want easy, be a theist.

If you want truth, however, you need to work harder. A lot harder.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Astreja

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #70 on: December 10, 2013, 01:16:20 PM »
What is easier - one god, existence of which explains everything, or to create explanation for each case?

"Easier" does not equal "correct."

Easy answers suffice to comfort people who are uneasy with ambiguity and who want immediate answers.  They are of no use whatsoever to people who want to harness the power of reality and improve the lot of humanity.
Reality Checkroom — Not Responsible for Lost Articles

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2013, 01:23:42 PM »
The problem is that many things are around you. But for all of them you prefer to think up explanations forgetting of principle "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity".
You, of all people, accusing us of forgetting Occam's Razor?  It's clear that you don't understand it very well, so allow me to take a moment to explain it properly to you.

What Occam's Razor means is not to make any more assumptions than are necessary.  In essence, when you're trying to explain something, you should avoid making assumptions about things relating to it.  Take those videos you posted earlier - why should anyone assume that the strange things shown therein actually represent something supernatural?  Occam's Razor argues against making such assumptions without need.  Instead, you should seek to get as much information as possible, without resorting to making unnecessary assumptions about it.

Or, that link you posted early on, where you talked about God creating "artificial evil" to vaccinate the universe with.  That whole premise is based on nothing but speculation and assumptions, and thus has no real validity as an explanation.  Indeed, it severely violated Occam's Razor by making assumption after assumption which simply aren't necessary.  I'll give you a short list of the assumptions you made:
  • You assumed that there was a God to begin with.
  • You assumed that this God was able to extrapolate an infinite quantity of possible universes.
  • This assumption contained a further one - that God was capable of dealing with infinities.
  • You assumed that God then came up with a Plan to 'vaccinate' the universe against evil.
  • You then assumed that God created entities of limited intelligence, and that he had full and absolute control over everything that these entities felt, thought, and experienced.
  • This assumption contained a further one - that God had the power to actually do that.
And that's just covering the first two paragraphs of your attempt to explain "God's Plan".  I haven't even begun to analyze it for logical flaws at this point, I'm only pointing out some of the assumptions you made in it.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2013, 01:26:29 PM »
What is easier - one god, existence of which explains everything, or to create explanation for each case?
Occam's Razor has nothing to do with ease or simplicity.  It has to do with not making unnecessary assumptions.  And trying to use God to explain the existence of everything contains too many assumptions; in essence, you are violating Occam's Razor many times over by trying to suggest that God explains everything.

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2013, 01:50:43 PM »
What is easier - one god, existence of which explains everything, or to create explanation for each case?
What is correct - one god, existence of which explains nothing, or to find the truth for each case.

Just a few corrections and you are on the way to a more honest approach.
Just try keeping an open mind and not just "god did it"
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline Jailed

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2013, 01:57:35 PM »
Why you, atheists, can easily assume everything but only not god?

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #75 on: December 10, 2013, 02:03:08 PM »
Why you, atheists, can easily assume everything but only not god?
As I see it, a god(s) existence is an assumption.
Truth has proof.
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Online Jag

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #76 on: December 10, 2013, 02:07:51 PM »
Why you, atheists, can easily assume everything but only not god?
Why you, theists, can easily assume EVERYTHING?

See how easy it is to generalize in an unfavorable way? What is your position on Shiva? What makes Shiva a fiction, and the Abrahamic God a reality?
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline Zankuu

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #77 on: December 10, 2013, 02:14:14 PM »
Why you, atheists, can easily assume everything but only not god?
Which god? <-- there's the problem.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline Jailed

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #78 on: December 10, 2013, 02:15:38 PM »
I mentioned Enoch. Enoch in his book precisely predicted events for thousands years forth. Give explanation.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion-spirituality/2006143-plan-3.html

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #79 on: December 10, 2013, 02:16:57 PM »
Why you, atheists, can easily assume everything but only not god?

We don't easily assume everything. I, for instance, don't assume leprechauns, Santa Claus, tooth fairies, ghosts, flying saucers or gods. See, my list is longer than you "assumed".

What we go with is stuff that has evidence to back it up. Anyone can make a claim. Are we supposed to take every random rant seriously? What if some guy shows up and starts proclaiming that the oceans are in fact one big living creature, and it's brain is just south of the Panama Canal, on the Pacific side, and that we need to start sacrificing a thousand people a day to the ocean or we will perish? Would you be forced to believe him automatically because you assume everything, including gods and living oceans?

I didn't think so.

We just draw our lines in different places. Don't be so surprised by human inconsistencies.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #80 on: December 10, 2013, 02:21:59 PM »
I mentioned Enoch. Enoch in his book precisely predicted events for thousands years forth. Give explanation.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion-spirituality/2006143-plan-3.html

Predicting stuff in a book that also contains the results of those predictions isn't quite as tricky as you think. And there is no requirement that any of it be honest. In fact, by its very nature, it can't be.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Zankuu

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #81 on: December 10, 2013, 02:22:35 PM »
I mentioned Enoch. Enoch in his book precisely predicted events for thousands years forth. Give explanation.
I'm not familiar with Enoch since it isn't canon. Can you list the supposed prophecies?
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline Jailed

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #82 on: December 10, 2013, 02:27:15 PM »
I mentioned Enoch. Enoch in his book precisely predicted events for thousands years forth. Give explanation.
I'm not familiar with Enoch since it isn't canon. Can you list the supposed prophecies?

Hint: There was link.

Offline Zankuu

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #83 on: December 10, 2013, 02:33:57 PM »
Hint: There was link.

You linked to a forum post you made on another forum which includes Chapters 84-88 from the Book of Enoch. That isn't what I asked for. All I'm asking for is a list of the prophecies made in the Book of Enoch. It shouldn't be very difficult for you.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline Jailed

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #84 on: December 10, 2013, 02:36:58 PM »
You pretend to be strictly logical and not to accept that is not proved. All right. There no evidence of god's existence (as you consider). So you do not accept god's existence. But also there no evidence of god's non-existence. Why you accepted it?

Offline Jailed

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2013, 02:40:33 PM »
Hint: There was link.

You linked to a forum post you made on another forum which includes Chapters 84-88 from the Book of Enoch. That isn't what I asked for. All I'm asking for is a list of the prophecies made in the Book of Enoch. It shouldn't be very difficult for you.

My commentaries are between lines separated with spaces.

Offline One Above All

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Re: The Power of the Lord
« Reply #86 on: December 10, 2013, 02:41:00 PM »
But also there no evidence of god's non-existence.

LOL
Ever heard of the Universe? Or life? Murder, rape, theft, starvation, ignorance, thousands upon thousands of religions, a universe that can't sustain life as we know it... The list goes on.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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