Author Topic: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?  (Read 2937 times)

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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2013, 09:49:34 PM »
Troll,so God created the cockroach just for breeding purpose of the wasp?

No. That's not all that cockroaches do.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2013, 09:53:31 PM »
Jesus corrected it or he "died" for nothing.

Matthew 19: 3-6

3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to [c]divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

Do you see what Jesus says there? Jesus did not say "God created them male and female billions of years after the beginning."

Jesus himself preached a literal Genesis. Anybody who believes the Earth is billions of years old is in direct contradiction with Jesus Himself.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 09:55:04 PM by skeptic54768 »
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2013, 09:56:37 PM »
Troll,so God created the cockroach just for breeding purpose of the wasp?

No. That's not all that cockroaches do.
The end process and purpose of this cockroach is to maintain the wasp's population,it matters NOT what this pathetic cockroach does with the few weeks of life before this.

 Much like your pointless life before "heaven"
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2013, 09:58:45 PM »
Jesus corrected it or he "died" for nothing.

Matthew 19: 3-6

3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to [c]divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

Do you see what Jesus says there? Jesus did not say "God created them male and female billions of years after the beginning."

Jesus himself preached a literal Genesis. Anybody who believes the Earth is billions of years old is in direct contradiction with Jesus Himself.
Jesus corrected the degradation of human DNA with his "sacrifice" or he wasted his time
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2013, 10:01:16 PM »
Jesus corrected the degradation of human DNA with his "sacrifice" or he wasted his time

ATP.

Avoiding the point.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2013, 10:02:50 PM »
Jesus himself preached a literal Genesis. Anybody who believes the Earth is billions of years old is in direct contradiction with Jesus Himself.

It has never bothered me to contradict a fictional character.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Antidote

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2013, 10:11:35 PM »
Jesus corrected the degradation of human DNA with his "sacrifice" or he wasted his time

ATP.

Avoiding the point.

You fail to see the irony of this post.
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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2013, 10:14:04 PM »
You fail to see the irony of this post.

That's because skep doesn't know what irony is.
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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2013, 10:21:40 PM »
Matthew 19: 3-6

3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to [c]divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

Do you see what Jesus says there? Jesus did not say "God created them male and female billions of years after the beginning."

Jesus himself preached a literal Genesis. Anybody who believes the Earth is billions of years old is in direct contradiction with Jesus Himself.

You'll notice that Jesus refers to Genesis, which means that, he, a God, made a mistake.

Then he starts spouting unsubstantiated laws, about how we are designed to be one flesh, without scriptural back up.

This is similar to when he quotes deleted texts in Mark

[24] And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
[25] For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

There is no scripture which supports the notion that we will be angels, because resurrection was not even believed.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2013, 10:27:49 PM »
Matthew 19: 3-6

3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to [c]divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

Do you see what Jesus says there? Jesus did not say "God created them male and female billions of years after the beginning."

Jesus himself preached a literal Genesis. Anybody who believes the Earth is billions of years old is in direct contradiction with Jesus Himself.

You'll notice that Jesus refers to Genesis, which means that, he, a God, made a mistake.


How?
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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2013, 10:47:36 PM »
How?

I've looked at the Greek, and I can't really see any other interpretation.

Jesus says "Have ye not read", which means he is referring to the book of Genesis, and then says that from "the beginning" we were made male and female. In order for the concept to work, he has to be referring to Adam and Eve, who were a singular couple, whom he assumes were married and faithful. However, we know that if there was a beginning of humanity, there would have been several hundred males and females, with no obvious coupling strategy; perhaps polygamous, or allowing divorce.

Therefore he is referring to a text that he knows to be false, to back up his next unsupported statement.

A similar thing happens in the parable of Lazarus, where the story makes no sense at all, but Jesus uses it as a parable.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2013, 11:28:45 PM »
How?

I've looked at the Greek, and I can't really see any other interpretation.

Jesus says "Have ye not read", which means he is referring to the book of Genesis, and then says that from "the beginning" we were made male and female.

With you so far.


In order for the concept to work, he has to be referring to Adam and Eve, who were a singular couple, whom he assumes were married and faithful.

Well, I think thats a fair assumption, given they were the only man and woman alive.


However, we know that if there was a beginning of humanity, there would have been several hundred males and females, with no obvious coupling strategy; perhaps polygamous, or allowing divorce. 

Not really following your train of thought here. Yes, gradually there were more and more males and females. The exact process and the timeframe whereby that occurred isn't really specified,  to my knowledge.



The point Jesus makes is that Eve was created to be a companion for Adam, and that males and females were created to be joined together.

Yes, agreed.



Therefore he is referring to a text that he knows to be false, to back up his next unsupported statement.


Sorry, still don't see it.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2013, 12:26:42 AM »
How?

I've looked at the Greek, and I can't really see any other interpretation.

Jesus says "Have ye not read", which means he is referring to the book of Genesis, and then says that from "the beginning" we were made male and female.

With you so far.


In order for the concept to work, he has to be referring to Adam and Eve, who were a singular couple, whom he assumes were married and faithful.

Well, I think thats a fair assumption, given they were the only man and woman alive.


However, we know that if there was a beginning of humanity, there would have been several hundred males and females, with no obvious coupling strategy; perhaps polygamous, or allowing divorce. 

Not really following your train of thought here. Yes, gradually there were more and more males and females. The exact process and the timeframe whereby that occurred isn't really specified,  to my knowledge.



The point Jesus makes is that Eve was created to be a companion for Adam, and that males and females were created to be joined together.

Yes, agreed.



Therefore he is referring to a text that he knows to be false, to back up his next unsupported statement.


Sorry, still don't see it.

Jesus was young earth. He didn't believe in an old earth. Any Christian must believe in young earth or they are calling Jesus a liar.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2013, 12:37:23 AM »
Sorry, still don't see it.

Well, I'll give you a golf clap for trolling, anyway.

The Genesis account says that Adam declared that it appeared they should be one flesh. For this to be historically accurate, you would need an Adam to say it. It was 5 seconds later, that Eve screwed up, and they were all killing each other.

If Jesus is a God, then he should not quote nonexistent people.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2013, 12:39:01 AM »
Jesus was young earth. He didn't believe in an old earth. Any Christian must believe in young earth or they are calling Jesus a liar.

Nope. False logic, as usual. They are at maximum are calling the people who interpolated false text into the scripture as liars. Jesus wrote nothing down.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2013, 12:55:37 AM »
Sorry, still don't see it.

Well, I'll give you a golf clap for trolling, anyway.

The Genesis account says that Adam declared that it appeared they should be one flesh. For this to be historically accurate, you would need an Adam to say it. It was 5 seconds later, that Eve screwed up, and they were all killing each other.

If Jesus is a God, then he should not quote nonexistent people.

No trolling, I just genuinely don't understand how Jesus was referring to a non-existent person. He makes reference to something Adam said...so what?

Genuinely confused here. 
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Offline Jag

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2013, 01:01:44 AM »
HEY! Since you brought it up, maybe you can answer a question for me.

Well, I think thats a fair assumption, given they were the only man and woman alive.
In light of that statement, when did the people of Nod show up, and from where did they arrive? Cain's wife? How is there this whole other population of people, one of whom Cain married (opening up another can of worms that we must set aside for now), if Adam and Eve are it? They had Cain and Abel, Abel was killed then out of seemingly nowhere Cain goes off and finds himself a wife. What the ...?

Or were they some other gender?  :? I never considered that...

I swear on Thor's sweaty chest that if skep shows up and mentions demons, phantoms, or zombies I'm gonna to have to hurt him.*

I can wait until you are done talking to Add.

*Disclaimer: It's okay skep, Thor doesn't actually exist either so it's not a binding vow. Shut up about it anyway though.
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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #75 on: December 04, 2013, 01:06:49 AM »
No trolling, I just genuinely don't understand how Jesus was referring to a non-existent person. He makes reference to something Adam said...so what?

Genuinely confused here.

The statement that we should "cleave as one flesh" is not directly from God, but from Adam. The statement is a direct result of Adam seeing the first woman being born from his chest.

If they are living in a tribal situation, with lots of other primeval humans, then (a) the beginning was not the beginning, or (b) Jesus is referring to an event that couldn't happen.

Adam is nonexistent, because he could not have seen the first women being born from his chest, since other women were surrounding him, but the narrator obscures this fact from the Eden story.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #76 on: December 04, 2013, 01:19:36 AM »

Adam is nonexistent, because he could not have seen the first women being born from his chest, since other women were surrounding him, but the narrator obscures this fact from the Eden story.

Why do you claim other women definitely surrounding him? This may be relevant to Jag's query also.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #77 on: December 04, 2013, 01:35:40 AM »
HEY! Since you brought it up, maybe you can answer a question for me.

Well, I think thats a fair assumption, given they were the only man and woman alive.
In light of that statement, when did the people of Nod show up, and from where did they arrive? Cain's wife? How is there this whole other population of people, one of whom Cain married (opening up another can of worms that we must set aside for now), if Adam and Eve are it? They had Cain and Abel, Abel was killed then out of seemingly nowhere Cain goes off and finds himself a wife. What the ...?

Or were they some other gender?  :? I never considered that...

I swear on Thor's sweaty chest that if skep shows up and mentions demons, phantoms, or zombies I'm gonna to have to hurt him.*

I can wait until you are done talking to Add.

*Disclaimer: It's okay skep, Thor doesn't actually exist either so it's not a binding vow. Shut up about it anyway though.

Given that Adam and Eve had multiple children, Cain's wife was most likely his sister.

Remember that in those days, our genes weren't as deteriorated as they are now due to it being right after the Fall. God also didn't give the law against incest yet either. That came later in the Bible.

So there is no problem with where Cain got his wife.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jag

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2013, 01:39:20 AM »
HEY! Since you brought it up, maybe you can answer a question for me.

Well, I think thats a fair assumption, given they were the only man and woman alive.
In light of that statement, when did the people of Nod show up, and from where did they arrive? Cain's wife? How is there this whole other population of people, one of whom Cain married (opening up another can of worms that we must set aside for now), if Adam and Eve are it? They had Cain and Abel, Abel was killed then out of seemingly nowhere Cain goes off and finds himself a wife. What the ...?

Or were they some other gender?  :? I never considered that...

I swear on Thor's sweaty chest that if skep shows up and mentions demons, phantoms, or zombies I'm gonna to have to hurt him.*

I can wait until you are done talking to Add.

*Disclaimer: It's okay skep, Thor doesn't actually exist either so it's not a binding vow. Shut up about it anyway though.

Given that Adam and Eve had multiple children, Cain's wife was most likely his sister.

Remember that in those days, our genes weren't as deteriorated as they are now due to it being right after the Fall. God also didn't give the law against incest yet either. That came later in the Bible.

So there is no problem with where Cain got his wife.

I'm completely disinterested in your input to this discussion.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #79 on: December 04, 2013, 01:47:27 AM »
I'm completely disinterested in your input to this discussion.

You asked the question!

I answered it biblically, and it's not good enough?

You can admit the question was answered.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jag

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #80 on: December 04, 2013, 01:58:08 AM »
I'm completely disinterested in your input to this discussion.

You asked the question!

I answered it biblically, and it's not good enough?

You can admit the question was answered.

Congratulations skep, you're on ignore. I understand that this place will be a bit dull for me for the next few days, but I'm sick to death of your nonsense and it sure looks like that sentiment is a common one. I can wait until you get your shit together or get out - it's almost the end of the semester anyway, so I've got plenty to do.

Have a nice life dude, rock on with your bad trolling self. Just hurry the hell up and go do it somewhere else.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2013, 02:00:04 AM »
Congratulations skep, you're on ignore. I understand that this place will be a bit dull for me for the next few days, but I'm sick to death of your nonsense and it sure looks like that sentiment is a common one. I can wait until you get your shit together or get out - it's almost the end of the semester anyway, so I've got plenty to do.

Have a nice life dude, rock on with your bad trolling self. Just hurry the hell up and go do it somewhere else.

Answers in genesis is trolling?

"We’re not told when Cain married or many of the details of other marriages and children, but we can say for certain that Cain’s wife was either his sister or a close relative."

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/who-was-cains-wife
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #82 on: December 04, 2013, 02:04:43 AM »
Given that Adam and Eve had multiple children, Cain's wife was most likely his sister.

Remember that in those days, our genes weren't as deteriorated as they are now due to it being right after the Fall. God also didn't give the law against incest yet either. That came later in the Bible.

So there is no problem with where Cain got his wife.

Yea, I know that Adam had other sons and daughters. No biggie. But your further defense, where you said "our genes weren't as deteriorated". WTF does that mean? If you are referring to the dangers of inbreeding, that has nothing to do with gene deterioration. It is just that brothers and sisters shouldn't have kids together because it is genetically dangerous, even when both have very healthy genes. It has nothing to do with defects in their genes. It has everything to do with the close relationship, genetically, and the possibility of recessive traits being expressed.

Gene deterioration is a catch phrase used by racists to justify their claim that some people shouldn't breed. Which is a main philosophy of Eugenics, which was practiced by Nazi's. I'd stay away from that term if I were you. Unless you're one of them.
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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2013, 02:22:20 AM »
Jesus was young earth. He didn't believe in an old earth. Any Christian must believe in young earth or they are calling Jesus a liar.
What ? You mean he did not know when he/his father created the earth. Why would jesus "believe" in anything. If he was a part of the all knowing god then he must simply know. To imply he believed means he was simply a man.
Do you really think a "true christian" has to believe in a young earth?
There is undeniable evidence that young earth is wrong (yes UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE) incase you ignore the first time I typed it.  You do religion no favours by insisting things like that are true but feel free to carry on, you may well help convince others it is all nonsense.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2013, 02:29:25 AM »

If you are referring to the dangers of inbreeding, that has nothing to do with gene deterioration. It is just that brothers and sisters shouldn't have kids together because it is genetically dangerous, even when both have very healthy genes. It has nothing to do with defects in their genes. It has everything to do with the close relationship, genetically, and the possibility of recessive traits being expressed.


Is it possible that the dangers of close gene association have increased, or possibly weren't present at all originally?

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #85 on: December 04, 2013, 02:59:37 AM »

If you are referring to the dangers of inbreeding, that has nothing to do with gene deterioration. It is just that brothers and sisters shouldn't have kids together because it is genetically dangerous, even when both have very healthy genes. It has nothing to do with defects in their genes. It has everything to do with the close relationship, genetically, and the possibility of recessive traits being expressed.


Is it possible that the dangers of close gene association have increased, or possibly weren't present at all originally?

Well, Adam and Eve were genetically identical, except for the boy-girl thing. So their kids would have been genetically identical. Which would mean that all of their kids kids would be genetically identical, being as there was no source for variation. And this would go on, ad infinitum, if it really happened. Not counting real, live, actual mutations. Basically, we should all look alike if we started out with two people only 6,000 years ago. And since the gene pool bottlenecked again, almost as tightly, for the flood, we should all look like Russell Crow. Even our girlfriends.

Of course, other types of genetic change can occur, and since some who study the bible think that the earths population may have been as high as 7 billion when the flood came, there may have actually been opportunities for genetic variation via point mutations, snips, deletions or other ways identified as causing genetic change. But like I said, most of them died, so that is irrelevant. It is the change since the flood that is important. But our population has grown much slower since the flood. The planet didn't hit 2 billion until 1927, so though we humans are a bunch of sinners because of all the sex we have, the pre-flood crowd must have been frickin' minks. Again, they all died, so it doesn't matter, but the idea of 7 billion people in heat is sort of interesting. Especially since a lot of them were 900 years old. Ick.

I'm rambling. If Eden is true, they had to interbreed, because dirt and ribs were apparently in sort supply. That part is no biggie. But since that isn't how things started, we have a huge variation in genetic material in humans because we've had hundreds of thousand of years, and some interbreeding with other closely related species (Neanderthal, for instance), which helped add to the variation.

Genetics are complex. Especially when useless myths like a 6000 year old earth are tossed in to the mix. Which doesn't happen scientifically, but socially, fundamentalists still harm reality by demanding we believe that tripe.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Are atheists offended by belief in god(s)?
« Reply #86 on: December 04, 2013, 03:22:12 AM »
I need to spend some time reading up on how the figure of 6000 years is used. Seems to me it would be no easy task to accurately plot the internal chronology of the bible. I can't help but wonder if assumptions have been made at certain points which are wrong.
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