Author Topic: Atheism requires faith(?)  (Read 3106 times)

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #232 on: December 02, 2013, 10:54:23 AM »
I see that I have been having an effect on some people here.

Atheism absolutely requires faith. There is no empirical evidence showing God does not exist or that souls do not exist.

"You have a belief without evidence, just like I do. That's faith" as your justification. I have a parable for just that situation.

Yes it is a kind of faith. It is that same kind of faith that I have that my shoes do not fly around my round when I am asleep and no recording devices are present. I'm sure you share that same faith, the faith of NoFlyingShoeswhlesleeping, how's that faith working out for you? Does it require a deep conviction of resolute solemnity, or do you have that faith because the proposition that your shoes fly around when you are asleep is in contradiction to everything observable about reality just like the Judeo-Christian god?

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #233 on: December 02, 2013, 11:11:59 AM »
^I wouldn't even call that faith.  I'd call it rational thought.  If my shoes end up in a different place than I remembered, then it's far more rational to assume that someone moved them than that they moved around on their own.  Not to mention that to say that you have faith in something requires you to actually think about it occasionally.  And honestly, how often do you actually wonder if your shoes fly around your room while you're sleeping?  I'd wager you don't think about it at all, except for the very occasional time when you bring it up in a debate like this.

Online nogodsforme

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #234 on: December 02, 2013, 11:36:10 AM »
If god had that life-saving knowledge and withheld it, he is a prick and an a$$hole.  Millions of his devoted subjects suffered and died of plagues for thousands of years, when all he had to do was whisper a few words about germs to his followers.

But god waited until the 20th century, while his children died needlessly from horrible infections when all had to do was put something in his holy book about boiling water and washing hands. He is a prick of the highest (lowest?) order and totally unworthy of any consideration.

Not to mention that demonic Muslims and the satanic Chinese were isolating the sick and doing pretty well at containing plagues that way..... &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #235 on: December 02, 2013, 10:47:58 PM »
If god had that life-saving knowledge and withheld it, he is a prick and an a$$hole.  Millions of his devoted subjects suffered and died of plagues for thousands of years, when all he had to do was whisper a few words about germs to his followers.

But god waited until the 20th century, while his children died needlessly from horrible infections when all had to do was put something in his holy book about boiling water and washing hands. He is a prick of the highest (lowest?) order and totally unworthy of any consideration.

Not to mention that demonic Muslims and the satanic Chinese were isolating the sick and doing pretty well at containing plagues that way..... &)

Once again, you're viewing life without a God in the picture. God has the power to restore life in the afterlife.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #236 on: December 03, 2013, 12:25:42 AM »
Once again, you're viewing life without a God in the picture. God has the power to restore life in the afterlife.

You are "preaching". If anyone else had preached as much as you, in the last week, they would have been evicted from the forum. For some reason, you are getting a long crack at the preacher whip - perhaps because there is no other theist around, at the moment. You are not being tolerated because you are being polite. That's not the way it works in this forum. Your lack of content is what will see you evicted. This is mainly a message that (a) you are getting nowhere (b) you should increase your standard of argument (c) hope that no other exciting theists arrive.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Online jdawg70

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #237 on: December 03, 2013, 12:36:44 AM »
Once again, you're viewing life without a God in the picture.
Yes.  That view is called reality.  The view where you've inserted god into the picture?  That view is called fantasy.

I'll give you another example to illustrate.

You: "Hobbits do not exist."
Me: "Once again, you're viewing life without Hobbits in the picture."

Quote
God has the power to restore life in the afterlife.
Kwijibo has the power to restore flobort in the afterafterlife.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #238 on: December 03, 2013, 12:40:55 AM »
God has the power to restore life in the afterlife.

I believe you.

Primarily because I don't believe there is any such thing as an "afterlife" or "pre-life" or "life" or "death"

I don't see a distinction in these things. There is only existence. We all exist in one form or the other for at least as long as this universe exists.

Death and Birth are the same thing...just viewed from different positions. Like a parallax.

I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Offline Ataraxia

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #239 on: December 03, 2013, 04:35:36 AM »
If god had that life-saving knowledge and withheld it, he is a prick and an a$$hole.  Millions of his devoted subjects suffered and died of plagues for thousands of years, when all he had to do was whisper a few words about germs to his followers.

But god waited until the 20th century, while his children died needlessly from horrible infections when all had to do was put something in his holy book about boiling water and washing hands. He is a prick of the highest (lowest?) order and totally unworthy of any consideration.

Not to mention that demonic Muslims and the satanic Chinese were isolating the sick and doing pretty well at containing plagues that way..... &)

Once again, you're viewing life without a God in the picture. God has the power to restore life in the afterlife.

How is that relevant to what NGFM has posted? Your God has the power to save/restore lives here, in the one life we do know we have, but people still suffer tremendously. Why does your God just stand by and allow it to happen? Does he not exist or something?
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #240 on: December 03, 2013, 10:53:37 AM »
If god had that life-saving knowledge and withheld it, he is a prick and an a$$hole.  Millions of his devoted subjects suffered and died of plagues for thousands of years, when all he had to do was whisper a few words about germs to his followers.

Once again, you're viewing life without a God in the picture. God has the power to restore life in the afterlife.

In which case, why bother giving the knowledge of germs out at all?  We'd all still be dying and getting restored to life in heaven.  Are we that much more abhorrent to your god now that he wants to keep us out of heaven for as long as possible, and hence is happy for us to use anti-bacterial soaps?

And you ignored the question before: why do YOU use soap?  Not using it would get you to a restored life in the afterlife, as quickly as all those lucky people back through history.  So why do you use it, if early death from disease is such a good thing?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online Mrjason

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #241 on: December 03, 2013, 11:00:51 AM »
And you ignored the question before: why do YOU use soap?  Not using it would get you to a restored life in the afterlife, as quickly as all those lucky people back through history.  So why do you use it, if early death from disease is such a good thing?

Wouldn't putting off eternal bliss for as long as possible be the ultimate in self sacrifice as per Colossians 1:24?

Quote
Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church

 ;)

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #242 on: December 03, 2013, 11:02:32 AM »
And you ignored the question before: why do YOU use soap?  Not using it would get you to a restored life in the afterlife, as quickly as all those lucky people back through history.  So why do you use it, if early death from disease is such a good thing?

Wouldn't putting off eternal bliss for as long as possible be the ultimate in self sacrifice as per Colossians 1:24?

Quite possibly.  But that directly contradictis what Skep just said - that an early death was a GOOD thing because god will resurrect us in the afterlife.

Hmmm, who to believe......Skep or the Bible.....decisions, decisions.....
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline median

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #243 on: December 03, 2013, 11:33:22 AM »

Actually no. The Illuminati based science is stuff like Darwinian evolution and the Big Bang. big bang was an old idea that was in the kabbalah, a satanic document. If they can make the masses think the earth is billions of years old, then it makes the bible look foolish and leads people away from Christianity. If the earth is billions of years old, Christianity is dead.

This is what is going on today. People take science as a religion these days. There is no empirical evidence that proves empirical evidence is the best way to gather data.

Think about love. "love at first sight" can't be empirically explained by science. Yet, people believe in it and it happens to people. Science can not empirically discuss morality. Science can not say "The Holocaust was evil." Science can only say, "The Holocaust happened in the early 1940's." Science can only report raw hard emotionless data, not the immaterial aspects of things.

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. and WRONG.

There is no such thing as "Darwinian" evolution. There is just "evolution" (which is FACT btw) with stacks of evidence just like germ theory. Did you know that "theory" is the highest point in science - not the lowest. You are just plain ignorant of evolution - plain and simple and you have zero sound evidence to demonstrate some 'illuminati' that are committing grand conspiracies. You are just really gullible. You need to go do some homework and stop your confirmation bias. Also, lots of Christians accept evolution and accept the scientific FACT that the earth is old. Stop opening your mouth until you have taken some classes on these subjects b/c you really don't know what you're taking about.

Science is not a religion b/c it has nothing to do with the transcendent, divine, supernatural, miraculous, or a deity. Sorry Kent Hovind Jr. You fail. You don't get to just redefine words to suit your case. This is more of you bearing false witness.

There is no "love at first sight". So your argument fails again. Love is just a word we use to describe specific human emotions, attitudes, feelings, and action. That is all. There is nothing mystical or spooky about it. And love CAN be demonstrated. Your God cannot. False analogy.

Last, science CAN in fact discuss morality b/c morality is about human well being and the minimizing of harm to conscious creatures. Science can (and does) speak volumes about minimizing harm and promoting healthiness and happiness.

Btw, please view your messages or the debate forum. I have officially challenged you to a debate.


« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 11:41:17 AM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #244 on: December 03, 2013, 01:37:28 PM »
There is no such thing as "Darwinian" evolution. There is just "evolution"

Actually there have been various competing theories of evolution. Lamarkian Evolution was the second most popular. It is just the Darwinian theory fits the facts best, and has continuously been reinforced when cross checked by every other disipline.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #245 on: December 03, 2013, 01:40:17 PM »
Actually no. The Illuminati based science is stuff like Darwinian evolution and the Big Bang. big bang was an old idea that was in the kabbalah, a satanic document

Fnord!!!!!
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline median

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #246 on: December 03, 2013, 05:08:02 PM »
There is no such thing as "Darwinian" evolution. There is just "evolution"

Actually there have been various competing theories of evolution. Lamarkian Evolution was the second most popular. It is just the Darwinian theory fits the facts best, and has continuously been reinforced when cross checked by every other disipline.

My point was that evolutionary biology is not encased in just Darwin, and neither is the 'theory of evolution' (theory being the highest point in science). In other words, today there is not "Darwinian Evolution" and then the other 'evolution' concepts. There is just one scientific explanation for the diversity of life on the planet.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #247 on: December 03, 2013, 05:35:09 PM »
Yes it is a kind of faith. It is that same kind of faith that I have that my shoes do not fly around my round when I am asleep and no recording devices are present. I'm sure you share that same faith, the faith of NoFlyingShoeswhlesleeping, how's that faith working out for you? Does it require a deep conviction of resolute solemnity, or do you have that faith because the proposition that your shoes fly around when you are asleep is in contradiction to everything observable about reality just like the Judeo-Christian god?

You know what; this idea is not so crazy to a crazy person like me. I recall that as a child I really had a hard time believing anything actually happenned apart from my presence. I actually thought about reality being a similation make for the sole purpose of making a "Truman Show" out of me.

Even today in the back of my mind, I question whether or not anything other than me is actually real. And if it is the case that nothing else is really real, than am I just a figment of my own cognition as well?

End of tangent......

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #248 on: December 03, 2013, 05:44:17 PM »

Think about love. "love at first sight" can't be empirically explained by science. Yet, people believe in it and it happens to people. Science can only report raw hard emotionless data, not the immaterial aspects of things.

Not so fast my friend! Have you bothered to do some fact finding before daring to make such a comment? Researchers, e.i. scientists, are attempting to find ways to explain the very love you speak of. http://www.howstuffworks.com/love6.htm


Offline median

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #249 on: December 03, 2013, 06:04:34 PM »
Skep, STOP USING GAP ARGUMENTS!!!

-God of the gaps
-Spirit of the gaps
-Immaterial of the gaps
-Love of the gaps

They all fail b/c they are using the Argument from Ignorance Fallacy
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Atheism requires faith(?)
« Reply #250 on: December 03, 2013, 10:01:19 PM »
you forgot Demons of the gaps
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)