Author Topic: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)  (Read 11103 times)

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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #261 on: December 04, 2013, 05:47:23 PM »
Do you go "hang out" with people who can't stand you and never want you around?

We try not to but you keep coming back.

My first 45 or so years of being an atheist were rather mild, and I had few thoughts on the issue rather than being pretty sure there was no god. He didn't show himself to me in any way during that period. I see no need to get all nice about him again and give him a second chance.

If he is real, he's the omnipotent one, not me. He knows exactly how to sway me in his direction. I can't help it if he doesn't do diddley squat.

He's the omnipotent one, but it's up to you.

It's the same way a rich father has almost unlimited money but still makes his kids get a job.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Boots

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #262 on: December 04, 2013, 05:54:05 PM »
You must have missed where Nam said he's choosing to go to Hell. So why would God show up to Nam if Nam's just going to decide to go to Hell anyway? Why should God show up to anyone who is already choosing Hell?

Plenty of atheists on this site have stated that even if God was real, they would ignore Him or curse Him off. So it makes no sense to wonder why he's not showing up to you guys.

Do you go "hang out" with people who can't stand you and never want you around?

And what about those who actually WANT to find god (like I did myself), and he's a no-show?  Your answer is disingenuous and ignores the real point, just as most answers to 'why won't god heal amputees' do.

Oh, and to answer your question ("Why should God show up to anyone who is already choosing Hell?"), how about because he loves his creations and doesn't actually want them to go to the hell he created?  If he really loved us, wouldn't he want to do whatever he could to prevent that -- oh wait, he could have just not created hell...never mind.
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #263 on: December 04, 2013, 05:55:41 PM »

Why can't these stupid athiests see this?  I mean, it's obvious right?  They keep asking for proof of this and proof of that.  They keep wanting to have some sort of rational verification of why we believe.  What they don't understand is that they'll never understand faith till they have faith, amirite?

It's like the thought experiment called "Mary's Room" where a person in a grey room can be told about color, all the spectrum, all the rods and cones in the eye and how it all works.. but until that person actually 'sees' something in color it's all just theoretical, amirite?

They just don't understand that we true believers are not just trying to tell them about color, but instead to get them to open the door, or a window and take a look outside the room they've all decided is the whole world.
Making the whole problem worse of course is that they just don't seem to understand that everybody 'sees' color/god in a slightly different way meaning that each person experiences it in that deeply personal way not definable by science.

Jeez, stupid athiests.





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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #264 on: December 04, 2013, 06:06:14 PM »
He's the omnipotent one, but it's up to you.

It's the same way a rich father has almost unlimited money but still makes his kids get a job.

You sure like to simplify things. At your convenience. Here you are, directly comparing a sinner with your god and telling me that they have the same morals.

I'm not complaining, mind you, I think the comparison quite apt. Because your god was made up by people who also made up sinning. They couldn't help themselves. But you sure are helping them.
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #265 on: December 04, 2013, 06:12:12 PM »

It's the same way a rich father has almost unlimited money but still makes his kids get a job.

Ever considered all the reasons why the father believes the kids need to get jobs?

Offline median

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #266 on: December 04, 2013, 06:28:28 PM »

You must have missed where Nam said he's choosing to go to Hell. So why would God show up to Nam if Nam's just going to decide to go to Hell anyway? Why should God show up to anyone who is already choosing Hell?

Plenty of atheists on this site have stated that even if God was real, they would ignore Him or curse Him off. So it makes no sense to wonder why he's not showing up to you guys.

Do you go "hang out" with people who can't stand you and never want you around?

The funny part is that (by your own admission) God does 'show up' and hang around (demonstrating itself) to those who reject his ways (i.e. - 1/3 of the angels did it, Judas and everyone who rejected Jesus' - aka God's - claims etc, including the alleged Pharisees). You aren't making any sense at all and that's b/c your religion is FICTION. Others are pointing this out and stating that they would rather suffer for eternity than be in the presence of a moral monster dictator ***hole forever. But that is only a hypothetical b/c we do not share your belief. For us, you believe in a Santa Claus for grown ups.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Graybeard

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #267 on: December 04, 2013, 07:39:44 PM »
Why should God show up to anyone who is already choosing Hell?

Isn't that his job? M't:15:24: But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I thought God really, really, wanted the lost sheep? Was Jesus telling lies like his dad did?

Lu:15:7: I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Lu:15:10: Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.


The truth is a little more prosaic: he doesn't show up to anyone because there's no such thing as a god.

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Hatter23

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #268 on: December 04, 2013, 09:19:22 PM »
Do you go "hang out" with people who can't stand you and never want you around?

We try not to but you keep coming back.

My first 45 or so years of being an atheist were rather mild, and I had few thoughts on the issue rather than being pretty sure there was no god. He didn't show himself to me in any way during that period. I see no need to get all nice about him again and give him a second chance.

If he is real, he's the omnipotent one, not me. He knows exactly how to sway me in his direction. I can't help it if he doesn't do diddley squat.

He's the omnipotent one, but it's up to you.

It's the same way a rich father has almost unlimited money but still makes his kids get a job.

You first have to convince me that the father exists. That father then needs to convince the kid to get a job. Yes, withholding funds is a good tool. However, he has TO ACTUALLY COMMUNICATE IT IN PERSON.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline natlegend

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #269 on: December 05, 2013, 01:28:12 AM »
This thread is making me dizzy, the way it goes round and round... In fact I think... I'm gonna be... sick...

*BLURK*
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #270 on: December 05, 2013, 01:51:11 AM »
You first have to convince me that the father exists. That father then needs to convince the kid to get a job. Yes, withholding funds is a good tool. However, he has TO ACTUALLY COMMUNICATE IT IN PERSON.

OK, I have a question for you to start off.

Is there anything that exists without a purpose for its existence?

If yes, explain what it is and why it has no purpose.
If no, you must concede the universe has a purpose for its existence.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #271 on: December 05, 2013, 01:56:32 AM »
I am going to say this again...

You state that pastafarianism is wrong because christianity has more followers.

You then state that only "many" will be deceived.

So how is the minority wrong?
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #272 on: December 05, 2013, 02:08:39 AM »
I am going to say this again...

You state that pastafarianism is wrong because christianity has more followers.

You then state that only "many" will be deceived.

So how is the minority wrong?

No, that's not why it's wrong.

It's wrong because it was made up to ridicule Christianity.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online Aaron123

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #273 on: December 05, 2013, 02:19:44 AM »
No, that's not why it's wrong.

It's wrong because it was made up to ridicule Christianity.

But how do you know it was "made up" to  ridicule?  It might seem that way to you, but that doesn't mean it wasn't.
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Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #274 on: December 05, 2013, 02:27:59 AM »
Is there anything that exists without a purpose for its existence?

If yes, explain what it is and why it has no purpose.
If no, you must concede the universe has a purpose for its existence.

That question only makes sense if you assume there is a creator behind everything.
You are trying to relate human emotions and ideas to objects and it just does not work (does a stone think it is happy?- no it just exists without any thoughts or emotions)
The universe does not need a purpose to exist it just does.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #275 on: December 05, 2013, 02:30:43 AM »
No, that's not why it's wrong.

It's wrong because it was made up to ridicule Christianity.

But how do you know it was "made up" to  ridicule?  It might seem that way to you, but that doesn't mean it wasn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

The "Flying Spaghetti Monster" was first described in a satirical open letter written by Bobby Henderson in 2005 to protest the Kansas State Board of Education decision to permit teaching intelligent design as an alternative to evolution in public school science classes.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Fiji

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #276 on: December 05, 2013, 02:31:14 AM »
No, that's not why it's wrong.

It's wrong because it was made up to ridicule Christianity.

But how do you know it was "made up" to  ridicule?  It might seem that way to you, but that doesn't mean it wasn't.

It most certainly was not made up to ridicule christianity ... it was made up to ridicule the notion of teaching made up stories in science class
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #277 on: December 05, 2013, 02:31:54 AM »
Is there anything that exists without a purpose for its existence?

If yes, explain what it is and why it has no purpose.
If no, you must concede the universe has a purpose for its existence.

That question only makes sense if you assume there is a creator behind everything.
You are trying to relate human emotions and ideas to objects and it just does not work (does a stone think it is happy?- no it just exists without any thoughts or emotions)
The universe does not need a purpose to exist it just does.

So you believe the universe has no purpose?

OK, you must find something else that has no purpose or else it is special pleading, which is a logical fallacy.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online Aaron123

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #278 on: December 05, 2013, 02:33:09 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

The "Flying Spaghetti Monster" was first described in a satirical open letter written by Bobby Henderson in 2005 to protest the Kansas State Board of Education decision to permit teaching intelligent design as an alternative to evolution in public school science classes.

That article is referring to the spiritual meaning of the word "satirical".  The spiritual meaning is different than the normal meaning of the word.
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Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #279 on: December 05, 2013, 02:39:07 AM »
So you believe the universe has no purpose?
The universe does not need a purpose to exist.
Your statements only make sense to you because you believe there is a creator responsible for it and so someone (a god) had a reason to create it. Matter does not have a purpose behind it. Matter(and energy) simply exist and have done, as we know them, since the big bang.
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #280 on: December 05, 2013, 02:40:49 AM »
That article is referring to the spiritual meaning of the word "satirical".  The spiritual meaning is different than the normal meaning of the word.

Post-hoc.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #281 on: December 05, 2013, 02:42:41 AM »
So you believe the universe has no purpose?
The universe does not need a purpose to exist.
Your statements only make sense to you because you believe there is a creator responsible for it and so someone (a god) had a reason to create it. Matter does not have a purpose behind it. Matter(and energy) simply exist and have done, as we know them, since the big bang.

So you believe matter had a beginning, despite the fact there is a law against it?

You must provide another example of something that exists without a purpose or else it is special pleading. Perhaps you missed that part of the post. No worries.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online Aaron123

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #282 on: December 05, 2013, 02:45:55 AM »
That article is referring to the spiritual meaning of the word "satirical".  The spiritual meaning is different than the normal meaning of the word.

Post-hoc.

Now you can imagine how we feel when dealing with religious retorts.
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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #283 on: December 05, 2013, 02:48:34 AM »
So you believe the universe has no purpose?
The universe does not need a purpose to exist.
Your statements only make sense to you because you believe there is a creator responsible for it and so someone (a god) had a reason to create it. Matter does not have a purpose behind it. Matter(and energy) simply exist and have done, as we know them, since the big bang.

So you believe matter had a beginning, despite the fact there is a law against it?

You must provide another example of something that exists without a purpose or else it is special pleading. Perhaps you missed that part of the post. No worries.

Which law is against matter having a beginning ?

There is no thing which is created with a purpose. Saying something has a purpose is special pleading. (From the living world, maybe ants are created with a purpose.)

« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 04:24:36 AM by Foxy Freedom »
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #284 on: December 05, 2013, 02:51:05 AM »
That article is referring to the spiritual meaning of the word "satirical".  The spiritual meaning is different than the normal meaning of the word.

Post-hoc.

Now you can imagine how we feel when dealing with religious retorts.

Tell me something.

Did you find dead sea scrolls about the FSM?
Did a historian named Thallus mention the FSM in the same way he mentioned darkness over all the land right around the time of the Jesus' crucifixion, which matches the biblical account?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #285 on: December 05, 2013, 02:56:46 AM »
So you believe matter had a beginning, despite the fact there is a law against it?

You must provide another example of something that exists without a purpose or else it is special pleading. Perhaps you missed that part of the post. No worries.
I don't actually know what "special pleading" means.
I said matter and energy exist as we know it since the big bang. I simply do not know about it before that but I'm sure some of the others on here can go into greater detail about the first moments of the universe as we know it. I did not say that the conservation of energy law had been broken, I simply do not have the knowledge about what happened at the big bang.

Something else that exists without a purpose?
You are failing to see the point I am making. You assume a purpose because you assume a creator that had a reason to create. Without the creator, no purpose is needed.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 03:10:21 AM by Jonny-UK »
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #286 on: December 05, 2013, 03:04:44 AM »
Or heck, Islam, how is Islam not the real religion, all its texts match up, its not satrical, Allah seems more powerful than Christ-god.

So, how is Islam false?
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Online Aaron123

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #287 on: December 05, 2013, 03:06:11 AM »
Tell me something.

Did you find dead sea scrolls about the FSM?

The Dead Sea scrolls does nothing to build the case for christianity.


Quote
Did a historian named Thallus mention the FSM in the same way he mentioned darkness over all the land right around the time of the Jesus' crucifixion, which matches the biblical account?

I looked up wikipedia to see what you're talking about.  Here's what it had to say:

The works are considered important by some Christian scholars because they believe them to help confirm the historicity of Jesus. Some people believe that Thallus refers to the darkness, reported in the Synoptic gospels as falling over the world at the time of Jesus' death, explaining it as an eclipse. However, this is impossible as only a lunar eclipse can occur at Passover, and lunar eclipses are not visible at mid day (the 6th hour as reported in the gospels) due to the moon being directly opposite the sun, and therefore below the horizon. An eclipse can therefore not be used to establish a pre-Markan origin for the story spoken of in the Gospel of Mark as some people claim.

Richard Carrier states the following "It is commonly claimed that a chronologer named Thallus, writing shortly after 52CE, mentioned the crucifixion of Jesus and the noontime darkness surrounding it (which reportedly eclipsed the whole world for three hours), and attempted to explain it as an ordinary solar eclipse. But this is not a credible interpretation of the evidence. A stronger case can be made that we actually have a direct quotation of what Thallus said, and it does not mention Jesus.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thallus_%28historian%29


Your historian lead is a bust.
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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #288 on: December 05, 2013, 03:07:39 AM »
So you believe matter had a beginning, despite the fact there is a law against it?

The "law" comes from within our observations of it, in this universe, which are limited. We know that it is interchangeable with energy. Why you continue to argue this fruitless line, is beyond me.
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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #289 on: December 05, 2013, 03:08:35 AM »
The Dead Sea scrolls does nothing to build the case for christianity.

Daniel 12 is missing in the 8 copies from Qumran, so the DSS undermines Christianity.
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