Author Topic: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)  (Read 8156 times)

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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #87 on: November 29, 2013, 10:52:56 PM »

Is the Bible (Hebrew Bible aka "The Old Testament" and The New Testament combined) the divinely inspired inerrant word of God?

He has already answered this question, in other places, in the affirmative. Yes, he believes that.

Thanks.  Does he see this as a matter of faith or a matter of fact?
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

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Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #88 on: November 29, 2013, 10:54:29 PM »

Is the Bible (Hebrew Bible aka "The Old Testament" and The New Testament combined) the divinely inspired inerrant word of God?

He has already answered this question, in other places, in the affirmative. Yes, he believes that.

Thanks.  Does he see this as a matter of faith or a matter of fact?

Everything he believes is a matter-of-fact, even his faith.

If anyone disagrees with him, they are demons.

-Nam
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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #89 on: November 29, 2013, 10:57:28 PM »
Everything he believes is a matter-of-fact, even his faith.

If anyone disagrees with him, they are demons.

-Nam

They are not demons, Nam. They are being led BY demons. There is a difference.

I believe there are only 2 sides in this world.
 If you are not on God's side, which side is left?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #90 on: November 29, 2013, 11:00:10 PM »
Everything he believes is a matter-of-fact, even his faith.

If anyone disagrees with him, they are demons.

-Nam

They are not demons, Nam. They are being led BY demons. There is a difference.

I believe there are only 2 sides in this world.
 If you are not on God's side, which side is left?

And lucky you, you get to decide all the criteria and stuff. We're so envious.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2013, 11:02:27 PM »
Everything he believes is a matter-of-fact, even his faith.

If anyone disagrees with him, they are demons.

-Nam

They are not demons, Nam. They are being led BY demons. There is a difference.

I believe there are only 2 sides in this world.
 If you are not on God's side, which side is left?

Semantics.

-Nam
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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #92 on: November 29, 2013, 11:05:02 PM »

Satan was not created evil. He was in Heaven and chose to rebel and become pure evil. It's all in the Bible.

That makes no sense, though...If he was not created evil, there is good in him somewhere, even if he chose to rebel. My question was about empathy. Why, even (or especially) if he is suffering eternal torture for his decision, would he take pleasure in reining in countless other souls to share in it? Or is he simply harvesting those souls which do not make the cut to join him whenever he DOES end up in the pit? In which case, the question still stands. Why would a being created "good" lose all sense of empathy and want only eternal torment for as many souls as he could garner? And in any case, where does it get him? Shouldn't he, knowing the wages of rebellion, rather be pointing the way for people to avoid that?

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #93 on: November 29, 2013, 11:05:06 PM »
And lucky you, you get to decide all the criteria and stuff. We're so envious.

I am confused. Do you think I wrote the Bible?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #94 on: November 29, 2013, 11:07:21 PM »

Satan was not created evil. He was in Heaven and chose to rebel and become pure evil. It's all in the Bible.

That makes no sense, though...If he was not created evil, there is good in him somewhere, even if he chose to rebel. My question was about empathy. Why, even (or especially) if he is suffering eternal torture for his decision, would he take pleasure in reining in countless other souls to share in it? Or is he simply harvesting those souls which do not make the cut to join him whenever he DOES end up in the pit? In which case, the question still stands. Why would a being created "good" lose all sense of empathy and want only eternal torment for as many souls as he could garner? And in any case, where does it get him? Shouldn't he, knowing the wages of rebellion, rather be pointing the way for people to avoid that?

The same reason people recruit others to help them rob a store or anything else. They don't say, "Oh no don't rob it with me. It's too risky. You could get in trouble." They want to drag others down with them.

Ever heard the phrase, "If I'm going down, you're going down with me?"
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline magicmiles

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #95 on: November 29, 2013, 11:15:01 PM »

Satan was not created evil. He was in Heaven and chose to rebel and become pure evil. It's all in the Bible.

That makes no sense, though...If he was not created evil, there is good in him somewhere, even if he chose to rebel. My question was about empathy. Why, even (or especially) if he is suffering eternal torture for his decision, would he take pleasure in reining in countless other souls to share in it? Or is he simply harvesting those souls which do not make the cut to join him whenever he DOES end up in the pit? In which case, the question still stands. Why would a being created "good" lose all sense of empathy and want only eternal torment for as many souls as he could garner? And in any case, where does it get him? Shouldn't he, knowing the wages of rebellion, rather be pointing the way for people to avoid that?

Just watch some of those black friday videos a few times to get a depressing insight into the behaviour that an intense selfishness can produce. In my view it simply isn;t possible to over-estimate the blackness and evil which can result from mankind thinking only of himself.
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #96 on: November 29, 2013, 11:16:12 PM »
Why, even given the assumption that god exists, would there be only two ways to interpret any given thing in the world?

I keep going back to the list of "demonic" graphics that you posted a couple of weeks ago (which I can't seem to find now). I keep wondering why it is that, something totally innocuous, like, say, a crescent moon, which every human being with eyesight sees for a number of days of every month of their lives, or a doodle of a star, or a "swastika" (which is, frankly, just a nifty little graphic which might occur to anyone with a stick or finger to draw in the dirt with), to say nothing of something as simple as a cross, whether it is drawn with the crossbar toward the top, middle, or bottom could not be doodled, then picked up as something recognizable and "catchy" by any group in any geographical area without it needing to have any connection whatsoever to a similar graphic picked up by some other group somewhere else?

What it is that makes these symbols (or other ideas) part of some sort of definitive dichotomy of good vs. evil?

Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #97 on: November 29, 2013, 11:19:35 PM »

Satan was not created evil. He was in Heaven and chose to rebel and become pure evil. It's all in the Bible.

That makes no sense, though...If he was not created evil, there is good in him somewhere, even if he chose to rebel. My question was about empathy. Why, even (or especially) if he is suffering eternal torture for his decision, would he take pleasure in reining in countless other souls to share in it? Or is he simply harvesting those souls which do not make the cut to join him whenever he DOES end up in the pit? In which case, the question still stands. Why would a being created "good" lose all sense of empathy and want only eternal torment for as many souls as he could garner? And in any case, where does it get him? Shouldn't he, knowing the wages of rebellion, rather be pointing the way for people to avoid that?

Because you need a bad guy, though Biblegod  has done more bad, and condoned more bad in the Bible than Satan/Lucifer/The Devil combined.

-Nam
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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #98 on: November 29, 2013, 11:20:49 PM »
And lucky you, you get to decide all the criteria and stuff. We're so envious.

I am confused. Do you think I wrote the Bible?

People just as sure as you. And just as confused. Also, just as wrong.

You still haven't explained how, other than getting an opinion from you, how to tell whether the words of others who identify as christians are under the spell of a demon. So far you have managed to assure us that you aren't, but otherwise, we are at your mercy when it comes to determining who, besides us atheists, is demonized.

Which means, at least so far, that you are the one deciding the criteria. How else could I put it? If others who think they are christians say something you disagree with, you are automatically going to tell them and/or us that they are being influenced by demons. There is nobody else who can tell us the demon state of another human besides you. So again, it is your criteria. Since you have not seen fit to explain how to tell. Other than ask you.

Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #99 on: November 29, 2013, 11:21:04 PM »
And lucky you, you get to decide all the criteria and stuff. We're so envious.

I am confused. Do you think I wrote the Bible?

Ah, but you have. You've rewritten it to agree with you. Like almost every other Christian in concern to themselves.

-Nam
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Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #100 on: November 29, 2013, 11:22:22 PM »

Satan was not created evil. He was in Heaven and chose to rebel and become pure evil. It's all in the Bible.

That makes no sense, though...If he was not created evil, there is good in him somewhere, even if he chose to rebel. My question was about empathy. Why, even (or especially) if he is suffering eternal torture for his decision, would he take pleasure in reining in countless other souls to share in it? Or is he simply harvesting those souls which do not make the cut to join him whenever he DOES end up in the pit? In which case, the question still stands. Why would a being created "good" lose all sense of empathy and want only eternal torment for as many souls as he could garner? And in any case, where does it get him? Shouldn't he, knowing the wages of rebellion, rather be pointing the way for people to avoid that?

The same reason people recruit others to help them rob a store or anything else. They don't say, "Oh no don't rob it with me. It's too risky. You could get in trouble." They want to drag others down with them.

Ever heard the phrase, "If I'm going down, you're going down with me?"

That saying is contributed AFTER-THE-FACT, not before.

Idiot.

-Nam
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #101 on: November 29, 2013, 11:28:15 PM »
First of all, I would like to issue an apology to the atheists. I am sorry for behaving in ways that you guys deem to be bad behavior. I am going to try very hard to not speak in ways that might be considered insulting.

With that said, I would like this thread to be about various religious discussion about Christianity and God. If you have a question for me, please ask it in this thread. Or if I come up with a topic to discuss, I will post it. This will save space on the board so I don't get accused of hijacking every thread and trolling the board.

Please guys, let's have a serious discussion in this thread.  :)

Trying to consolidate my questions:

I understand you see the Bible as being the divinely inspired inerrant word of God.  Is this understanding a matter of faith or a matter of fact?


Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #102 on: November 29, 2013, 11:31:56 PM »
And lucky you, you get to decide all the criteria and stuff. We're so envious.

I am confused. Do you think I wrote the Bible?

I do not think you wrote the Bible.  I am curious, though, where the story about the fall of the Satan is found in the Bible.

Many thanks,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #103 on: November 29, 2013, 11:31:59 PM »
First of all, I would like to issue an apology to the atheists. I am sorry for behaving in ways that you guys deem to be bad behavior. I am going to try very hard to not speak in ways that might be considered insulting.

With that said, I would like this thread to be about various religious discussion about Christianity and God. If you have a question for me, please ask it in this thread. Or if I come up with a topic to discuss, I will post it. This will save space on the board so I don't get accused of hijacking every thread and trolling the board.

Please guys, let's have a serious discussion in this thread.  :)

Trying to consolidate my questions:

I understand you see the Bible as being the divinely inspired inerrant word of God.  Is this understanding a matter of faith or a matter of fact?


Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy

You get a straight answer from him, you'll be the first.

-Nam
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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #104 on: November 29, 2013, 11:32:43 PM »

Just watch some of those black friday videos a few times to get a depressing insight into the behaviour that an intense selfishness can produce. In my view it simply isn;t possible to over-estimate the blackness and evil which can result from mankind thinking only of himself.

Granted, people can get that adrenaline rush which makes them behave like nuts over specific occasions...But I would be willing to bet that these same people, given an eternity to ponder their actions, would look back and realize that it wasn't all that important, and restgret having, for example, tripped a little old lady to grab the bargain before she could get to it (sorry, didn't watch the videos, so I don't know the specifics, but I imagine that's likely the sort of thing which might go on).

Why would Satan, knowing he had (for the sake of the story) led a rebellion which was doomed to failure and would result in everlasting torment for him and anyone not completely allied to the winning side, not at least want to spare the unbelievers eternal suffering? If I were him, knowing the outcome first hand, I'd probably want, at the most evil, to slink away and hide. And if I had anything like good left in me, I'd want to use the first-hand knowledge of what rebellion led to and try to warn others away.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #105 on: November 29, 2013, 11:36:39 PM »

Just watch some of those black friday videos a few times to get a depressing insight into the behaviour that an intense selfishness can produce. In my view it simply isn;t possible to over-estimate the blackness and evil which can result from mankind thinking only of himself.

Granted, people can get that adrenaline rush which makes them behave like nuts over specific occasions...But I would be willing to bet that these same people, given an eternity to ponder their actions, would look back and realize that it wasn't all that important, and restgret having, for example, tripped a little old lady to grab the bargain before she could get to it (sorry, didn't watch the videos, so I don't know the specifics, but I imagine that's likely the sort of thing which might go on).

Why would Satan, knowing he had (for the sake of the story) led a rebellion which was doomed to failure and would result in everlasting torment for him and anyone not completely allied to the winning side, not at least want to spare the unbelievers eternal suffering? If I were him, knowing the outcome first hand, I'd probably want, at the most evil, to slink away and hide. And if I had anything like good left in me, I'd want to use the first-hand knowledge of what rebellion led to and try to warn others away.

If nothing else, jt, this appears to prove conclusively that you aren't the devil. We can all stop wondering. Jury is still out on Nam.  ;D

Sorry I have nothing more intelligent to add right at the moment.
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #106 on: November 29, 2013, 11:49:53 PM »
mm,

I must scare skeptic to death.

;)

-Nam
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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #107 on: November 29, 2013, 11:58:15 PM »
Satan was not created evil. He was in Heaven and chose to rebel and become pure evil. It's all in the Bible.

Last I heard, heaven is an awesome.place. Why would this Satan fellow choose otherwise? There are literally billions of people on this planet who are doing what they think is the right thing to get into heaven. Satan already knew what heaven was like but he chose to rebel. Is there something about heaven that we don't know about?

All it proves is that Satan has a really low IQ and wants to be his own boss.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2013, 12:02:14 AM »
Satan was not created evil. He was in Heaven and chose to rebel and become pure evil. It's all in the Bible.

Last I heard, heaven is an awesome.place. Why would this Satan fellow choose otherwise? There are literally billions of people on this planet who are doing what they think is the right thing to get into heaven. Satan already knew what heaven was like but he chose to rebel. Is there something about heaven that we don't know about?

All it proves is that Satan has a really low IQ and wants to be his own boss.

Do you have a higher IQ than Satan? And if so, how do you scientifically measure that?

-Nam
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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #109 on: November 30, 2013, 12:08:48 AM »
Trying to consolidate my questions:

I understand you see the Bible as being the divinely inspired inerrant word of God.  Is this understanding a matter of faith or a matter of fact?


Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy

To me, it's solid fact. To the atheists, it's not.

Just like how evolution atheists is solid fact, but to me it's not solid fact and filled with flaws and holes.

Same evidence, different conclusions. But, the Bible said people wouldn't believe it and Christians would be persecuted so the Bible has evidence to back up its claims. Christians are living proof.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #110 on: November 30, 2013, 12:14:30 AM »
Trying to consolidate my questions:

I understand you see the Bible as being the divinely inspired inerrant word of God.  Is this understanding a matter of faith or a matter of fact?


Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy

To me, it's solid fact. To the atheists, it's not.

Just like how evolution atheists is solid fact, but to me it's not solid fact and filled with flaws and holes.

Same evidence, different conclusions. But, the Bible said people wouldn't believe it and Christians would be persecuted so the Bible has evidence to back up its claims. Christians are living proof.

Atheists don't persecute Christians. Christians persecute Christians[1].

-Nam
 1. both generalisations
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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #111 on: November 30, 2013, 12:22:40 AM »
Trying to consolidate my questions:

I understand you see the Bible as being the divinely inspired inerrant word of God.  Is this understanding a matter of faith or a matter of fact?


Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy

To me, it's solid fact. To the atheists, it's not.

Just like how evolution atheists is solid fact, but to me it's not solid fact and filled with flaws and holes.

Same evidence, different conclusions. But, the Bible said people wouldn't believe it and Christians would be persecuted so the Bible has evidence to back up its claims. Christians are living proof.

Yea, you're the guy who said that there is less evidence for evolution than you expected, but you never explained how much you expected, or what it would look like or anything. You just made a blanket statement, backed it up with your street cred, and walked away.

Seven or eight hundred posts later and you still assume we know what you're talking about. You assume we understand what you're talking about even though if you were to start beating around the bush it would be a great improvement. Your idea of an intellectual conversation is one where you act smart and the rest of us shut up and listen.

OldChurchGuy consistently tells us what he thinks/believes and why he thinks/believes it, and he does it in a way that makes no claim of absolute truth. He merely states his side of the story in a civilized manner without taking on airs of incredible superiority.

We would love it if you would wind down enough to start taking only an air of incredible superiority. That would be such an improvement.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline natlegend

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #112 on: November 30, 2013, 12:59:20 AM »
Skeptic, you've ignored my question TWICE now...

Quote
Skeptic, please define for me what you believe defines a OneTrueChristian.

Please use point form, and be as specific as possible. I will not accept vague answers, I want the truth from you and I want it now. If ALL other religions are wrong, please convince me that yours is the correct one, and give valid reasons why.

Please do not ignore me again. It's not only rude, it also serves to highlight your obvious ignorance.

It's YOUR god, it's YOUR rules, YOU go to hell.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...

"Noah's ark is a problem. We'll have to call it early quantum state phenomenon, only way to fit 5000 species of mammal in the same boat."
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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #113 on: November 30, 2013, 03:32:39 AM »
Trying to consolidate my questions:

I understand you see the Bible as being the divinely inspired inerrant word of God.  Is this understanding a matter of faith or a matter of fact?


Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy

To me, it's solid fact. To the atheists, it's not.

Just like how evolution atheists is solid fact, but to me it's not solid fact and filled with flaws and holes.

Same evidence, different conclusions. But, the Bible said people wouldn't believe it and Christians would be persecuted so the Bible has evidence to back up its claims. Christians are living proof.

Yea, you're the guy who said that there is less evidence for evolution than you expected, but you never explained how much you expected, or what it would look like or anything. You just made a blanket statement, backed it up with your street cred, and walked away.

Seven or eight hundred posts later and you still assume we know what you're talking about. You assume we understand what you're talking about even though if you were to start beating around the bush it would be a great improvement. Your idea of an intellectual conversation is one where you act smart and the rest of us shut up and listen.

OldChurchGuy consistently tells us what he thinks/believes and why he thinks/believes it, and he does it in a way that makes no claim of absolute truth. He merely states his side of the story in a civilized manner without taking on airs of incredible superiority.

We would love it if you would wind down enough to start taking only an air of incredible superiority. That would be such an improvement.

I'm not sure if it was you, but someone on this board said that all theists were illogical and childish. Ergo, they think OldChurchGuy is illogical and childish.

You may not smite him, but he knows what you guys think of him anyway.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline natlegend

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #114 on: November 30, 2013, 04:34:45 AM »
Actually, I quite like conversing with OCG. He is a real gentleman, who is actually interested in discussing differing points of view, unlike yourself Skep, where you dodge dip and dive like a... dodgey-dippy-divey type. Still, you're a fun chew toy, but the novelty is really starting to wear thin.

So, when are you going to answer my twice-asked question about how YOU[1]know what a OneTrueChristian is? And what process you would use to determine if a Goddess was a demon or the real deal? And have you applied that same 'logic' to your belief in your own god? And do you truly believe you have the 'power' to cast a demon out? Cos matey, I reckon you need to start with yourself... just sayin'
 1. And apparently ONLY you, in the whole planet
It's YOUR god, it's YOUR rules, YOU go to hell.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...

"Noah's ark is a problem. We'll have to call it early quantum state phenomenon, only way to fit 5000 species of mammal in the same boat."
- River Tam

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #115 on: November 30, 2013, 04:52:50 AM »
I'm not sure if it was you, but someone on this board said that all theists were illogical and childish. Ergo, they think OldChurchGuy is illogical and childish.
You may not smite him, but he knows what you guys think of him anyway.
That is a quite an assumption you are making- do you really know what OldChurchGuy thinks or knows?
You certainly have no right to assume you know what everyone thinks of someone.
You need to be careful here as it would be very easy to actually ask OldChurchguy what he thinks everyone here thinks of him and I am sure he would give a real and honest answer.
It is quite different to thinking you know what your idea of a god would say/do/think as we cannot physically ask them any questions and get a reply but OCG is real and on here.
It is quite rude for you to make those kind of assumptions about people.
S.P.A.OCG !
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 06:09:56 AM by Jonny-UK »
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead