Author Topic: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)  (Read 8496 times)

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Offline Ataraxia

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2013, 03:56:46 AM »
Can you provide an example of something that exists that can't be evidence for God?
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2013, 04:18:11 AM »
What was his name?

-Nam

Please, Nam. Let the big boys talk. No need for 3rd grade level insults.

I was being serious. Was it a huge breakup? Is that what drove you to the insanity you are now in?

Seriously?

If a woman, which I doubt, same question.


-Nam
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Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2013, 04:39:42 AM »
Quote
sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.”
"“…

I guess you still have not sold your computer then.

But if you give so much away that you are poor and the poor are given so much that they stop being poor, do they then have to give it back again to return to being poor and so on and so on?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 04:52:13 AM by Jonny-UK »
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Offline relativetruth

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2013, 04:44:14 AM »
By the way, how do you know what perfection is if God does not exist? There is obviously an objective standard of perfection (God) that we use when examining whether or not something is perfect.
How would you describe a perfect umbrella? i.e one that is perfect for you.
Would your description be the same as my description? That's very unlikely.

What about an absolutely perfect umbrella one that is perfect for everybody? Could you describe it? Could I?

You might say that although we don't know the criteria to make an absolutely perfect umbrella we would both recognise it as perfect from our own perspective if we ever encountered one.

If something is absolutely perfect it must be perfect from every point of view.

The perfect god that you seem to be describing in all your posts does not seem to be perfect to me. My description of a perfect god is entirely different to yours. So an absolutely perfect god might still to be possible but it certainly is not yours because yours fails the universality test
i.e. it is not perfect to me.
God(s) exist and are imaginary

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2013, 07:31:21 AM »
The question is: how can we tell whether this scenario is correct?  How can we test it and prove it to be wrong?


The bold question is easily answered by saying that you made up this fact based on nothing but your imagination. There is no book saying that the Bible is a word of a demon.

What an absolutely stunning sidestep.  "It just can't be", is your answer.  So in other words you have NO way of knowing whether that scenario is true, you just won't think about it. 

Well, at least I've confirmed that this thread of yours will just be the usual evasions.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2013, 03:26:46 AM »
Skeptic.  This thread has been opened, on the understanding that you will give considered and non-trivial answers to the questions you are asked.  The ostensible reason for this thread is to allow you to answer the questions posed.

Failure to answer questions in a non-trivial way, and simply to cite your theology without genuine discussion, will be regarded as preaching, which as I am sure you will know is against forum rules.

I will not be engaging further in this thread as a participant, but will be keeping a close eye on the depth of the answers you give.

You asked for serious discussion.  Let's see one.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2013, 04:41:42 AM »
Well, I guess that counts me out. I mean, one can't talk seriously to someone who starts out not speaking seriously.

;)

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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2013, 10:15:09 AM »
If there has only ever being ONE true God (who also created the universe and is all-loving and all-knowing) why does this god allow soo many different interpretations of his nature?

Let's say, for the purposes of argument, that Christians are actually closer to reality then anybody else why does this god continue to allow the majority of the world populations (past and present) (Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddists, ancient Egyptians, ancient Greeks,atheists, ... etc) to be deluded in their beliefs? Especially those that had never heard of Jesus Christ?

There are hundreds of thousands of mutually exclusive creation myths in existence. Only ONE can be correct or they are ALL wrong. If there is ONE correct version of the creation then THIS version had to be told to mankind by THIS god (Man could not have witnessed our own creation).

Why did THIS god decide to tell only a relatively small group of people in around the East Mediterranean  the REAL TRUE story?

I can not tell you why God does the things He does. I can only say that He does them. I do believe that God wants us to come to Christianity out of study and an open mind. The other religions are a test to see who falls for the demons of the other religions and who can identify the demons and come to embrace Christianity and all it's beauty and glory.
Who says God is anything more than the God of the Jews? Jesus did not form or create Christianity,neither did God. Some dude named Paul and a few other dudes created Christianity,first of you still have to prove God is interested in peoples other than Jews
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Offline Jag

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2013, 11:29:23 AM »
Skep I have a question that I sincerely want an answer to, and you tend to be a bit hard to pin down. It's posted right here: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,25908.msg585684.html#msg585684

I genuinely want to know your answer.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline median

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2013, 01:35:20 PM »
Skep, please respond in length to my post on page #1. Note: This requires you to actually read the whole thing.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline jdawg70

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2013, 01:54:45 PM »
Which version of the bible are you talking about whenever you bring it up?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2013, 03:52:07 AM »
Okay chaps - that's sufficient questions for Skeptic to address for now please.  Let's hear his considered answers before we throw any more out there.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2013, 04:34:39 AM »
Okay chaps - that's sufficient questions for Skeptic to address for now please.  Let's hear his considered answers before we throw any more out there.

I doubt he's coming back to this topic. His last comment was two days ago, he's clearly been logged in and made comments elsewhere.

-Nam
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2013, 08:04:29 AM »
I doubt he's coming back to this topic. His last comment was two days ago, he's clearly been logged in and made comments elsewhere.

I would expect he is giving careful consideration to the questions being posed, and carefully composing detailed replies rather than off-the-cuff superficial responses.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2013, 10:16:04 AM »
Why was the garden of Eden not a "perfect" place? Evil in the garden and all !

This is just a lack of Biblical knowledge. ignorance can be cured though. Eden was never a perfect place. God just said that it was very good, which is not perfect.

By the way, how do you know what perfection is if God does not exist? There is obviously an objective standard of perfection (God) that we use when examining whether or not something is perfect.
Care to back the statement up with quotes or passages from the Bible,I dont remember reading how God said he created imperfection anywhere.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2013, 12:19:08 PM »
Quote
sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.”
"“…

I guess you still have not sold your computer then.

But if you give so much away that you are poor and the poor are given so much that they stop being poor, do they then have to give it back again to return to being poor and so on and so on?

You don't understand. You can have riches. You just can't be obsessed with them to the point where they are the #1 focus of your life.

There are a lot of professional athletes that are Christians with enormous wealth but they always give credit to God first and foremost.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2013, 02:55:10 PM »
Quote
sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.”
"“…

I guess you still have not sold your computer then.

But if you give so much away that you are poor and the poor are given so much that they stop being poor, do they then have to give it back again to return to being poor and so on and so on?

You don't understand. You can have riches. You just can't be obsessed with them to the point where they are the #1 focus of your life.

There are a lot of professional athletes that are Christians with enormous wealth but they always give credit to God first and foremost.

"Thank you Jesus for all the millions you gave me for the hard work I do. Thank you Jesus to my wife who spends it all but still suks my dick like I like it! Thank you Jesus! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you![1]

-Nam
 1. for my mistress who also goes down on my wife!
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2013, 03:11:42 PM »
sell all that thou hast
You don't understand. You can have riches. You just can't be obsessed with them to the point where they are the #1 focus of your life.
You are right, I don't understand.
Perhaps you could list what someone that wanted to get to heaven would actually have to do.
A sort of summary of the key points, as you see it.
I appreciate you are getting a lot of questions fired at you but a clear list of the can and can't do might stop a lot of the same points being asked.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 03:29:28 PM by Jonny-UK »
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Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2013, 04:13:18 PM »
There are a lot of professional athletes that are Christians with enormous wealth but they always give credit to God first and foremost.
I cannot see any valid point to this statement. There are a lot of athletes that are not christians that also have enormous wealth and who do not need to give credit to a god. What are the christian athletes giving credit for?
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline median

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2013, 07:16:51 PM »

You don't understand. You can have riches. You just can't be obsessed with them to the point where they are the #1 focus of your life.

There are a lot of professional athletes that are Christians with enormous wealth but they always give credit to God first and foremost.

This is called SPIN. It isn't at all what the bible actually says. Taken 'in context' it says quite clearly that you must sell all of your possessions and follow Jesus, that it is basically impossible for a rich man to "enter into the kingdom of heaven". Again, taking "into context" the fact that YOU are commanded to be "Christlike" (which means to mimic Jesus and his example here on earth), then you are not supposed to have 'a place to lay your head', that you should not be 'storing up your treasures on earth' (aka - no savings, no investment - only what 'the Lord' provides today).

This is just another example, in the long line of examples, of how you (like most Christians) cherry-pick the bible passages that you want it to be saying and ignore (or SPIN) the others to fit the context that you want. It's called inventing your own version of Christianity to suit your desires. And rich professional athletes are no exception. They are storing up treasures here on earth (as are you if you have a bank account, a house, a computer, or other common conveniences).

Sorry, by the words of your own 'master' you are not a true follower of that master.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 07:19:15 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline MadBunny

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2013, 01:30:41 AM »
I still have no idea what sect of Christianity Skeptic54768 claims to be a part of.
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2013, 01:38:18 AM »
I still have no idea what sect of Christianity Skeptic54768 claims to be a part of.

No one does. But nogodsforme, and myself think he's a JW.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Online skeptic54768

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2013, 02:56:35 AM »
I still have no idea what sect of Christianity Skeptic54768 claims to be a part of.

No one does. But nogodsforme, and myself think he's a JW.

-Nam

No, I am not a JW. They are false prophets.

I am non-denominational. All I do is read the Bible and try my best to live like my Savior. That's all that's required. Your own body is the Church, the metaphorical body of Christ.

It's not even a religion, to be honest. it's more of a philosophy.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Nam

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2013, 03:39:16 AM »
I still have no idea what sect of Christianity Skeptic54768 claims to be a part of.

No one does. But nogodsforme, and myself think he's a JW.

-Nam

No, I am not a JW. They are false prophets.

I am non-denominational. All I do is read the Bible and try my best to live like my Savior. That's all that's required. Your own body is the Church, the metaphorical body of Christ.

It's not even a religion, to be honest. it's more of a philosophy.

It's not a philosophy. Philosophies don't punish you. They don't have laws. They don't say when you die you will go to a kind or horrible place. Etc.,

Philosophy is only about the learning of something revolving reality and knowledge. That's it.

Try again.

-Nam
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Offline median

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2013, 04:01:26 AM »

No, I am not a JW. They are false prophets.

I am non-denominational. All I do is read the Bible and try my best to live like my Savior. That's all that's required. Your own body is the Church, the metaphorical body of Christ.

It's not even a religion, to be honest. it's more of a philosophy.

This is more of you making up your own version of Christianity to suit yourself. I can point you to Christian scholars and pastors who would show you this. Have you even studied Christian history, the history of Christian doctrine, the old creeds, the canonization, or the writings of the fathers of Christendom? The bible itself in James ch 1 states that you have a religion, and it does not say that your body is the church. You need to keep reading. Perhaps pickup Systematic Theology from Wayne Grudem (a renowned bible scholar and teacher of theology at Westminster Seminary). These things you keep claiming are just not accurate. 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2013, 05:01:46 AM »
Quote
sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.”
"“…

I guess you still have not sold your computer then.

But if you give so much away that you are poor and the poor are given so much that they stop being poor, do they then have to give it back again to return to being poor and so on and so on?

You don't understand. You can have riches. You just can't be obsessed with them to the point where they are the #1 focus of your life.

There are a lot of professional athletes that are Christians with enormous wealth but they always give credit to God first and foremost.

Matthew 25: "Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. "

I do not understand how there can be people with nothing, while people have plenty, and those people with plenty believe they will still go to heaven.  It seems to directly contradict the direct words of Christ.

Indeed, the whole philosophy of "god gave me riches, so its okay" doesn't seem to fit with the words of Christ.  My understanding would be - "yes, god DID give you riches - so that you could use them ALL to bring good to the world, not so you could have three cars and a 42" TV".
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2013, 07:28:41 AM »
The next question must be how much wealth can a person actually be allowed to keep?  How would you know if you had kept too much? Can you give too much to the poor so that they are then in a position of needing to give some away?

The point I am making is that if someone is required to give away all that they have to get to heaven then surely that must mean that nobody else can accept it as you may then be stopping the poor from getting to heaven.
I could accept that pehaps the meaning is that everyone should have just what they need but that is not what it says.
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2013, 10:40:23 AM »
Can a gay couple,who are Christian and love Jesus be accepted by God? Do the OT rules Jesus fulfilled with his sacrifice still apply in this case?
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Online skeptic54768

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Re: The Religious "Ask Skeptic" Thread (With Apology To The Atheists)
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2013, 11:28:49 AM »
Quote
sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.”
"“…

I guess you still have not sold your computer then.

But if you give so much away that you are poor and the poor are given so much that they stop being poor, do they then have to give it back again to return to being poor and so on and so on?

You don't understand. You can have riches. You just can't be obsessed with them to the point where they are the #1 focus of your life.

There are a lot of professional athletes that are Christians with enormous wealth but they always give credit to God first and foremost.

Matthew 25: "Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. "

I do not understand how there can be people with nothing, while people have plenty, and those people with plenty believe they will still go to heaven.  It seems to directly contradict the direct words of Christ.

Indeed, the whole philosophy of "god gave me riches, so its okay" doesn't seem to fit with the words of Christ.  My understanding would be - "yes, god DID give you riches - so that you could use them ALL to bring good to the world, not so you could have three cars and a 42" TV".

No, riches are not bad. Abraham had riches. Job had riches. When Job passed the test, God gave him even more riches.

You know why? Because they were men of God first and foremost.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)