Author Topic: Does the second commandment still apply or not?  (Read 2250 times)

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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #87 on: November 28, 2013, 12:31:21 PM »
It appears that you "misunderstood" the question both Anfauglir and I are asking you: Don't you have a duty to other theists, with the special knowledge and abilities you claim? 

Seriously, I don't understand why you are still posting here, and I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that Anfauglir was asking the same question. You obviously are offending people in person  because they tell you to leave as soon as you speak, but you ALSO obviously know how to use the internet, so why are you wasting time trying to convince us of your bullshit when there's a whole world apparently full of demons taking control of people and causing all kinds of havoc - and you claim to have the ability to spot these dangerous creatures.

Why are you here, at this forum, talking to us? I really want to know. Just a straight answer, no dodging, no pretending to misunderstand what I'm asking you, no diverting, just an answer - why are you here talking to us?

The thing is, there is a chance that the followers of the false sects could still go to Heaven. It's the leaders of the churches that have pretty much signed their souls over to Hell for material gain in this life. The leaders know what they are doing. The people are just innocent victims. God may have pity on them and still take them to Heaven.

but atheists are a whole different ball of wax. They deny the creator, so God denies them. The only way back is to give glory and praise to the King.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Nam

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #88 on: November 28, 2013, 02:50:23 PM »
It appears that you "misunderstood" the question both Anfauglir and I are asking you: Don't you have a duty to other theists, with the special knowledge and abilities you claim? 

Seriously, I don't understand why you are still posting here, and I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that Anfauglir was asking the same question. You obviously are offending people in person  because they tell you to leave as soon as you speak, but you ALSO obviously know how to use the internet, so why are you wasting time trying to convince us of your bullshit when there's a whole world apparently full of demons taking control of people and causing all kinds of havoc - and you claim to have the ability to spot these dangerous creatures.

Why are you here, at this forum, talking to us? I really want to know. Just a straight answer, no dodging, no pretending to misunderstand what I'm asking you, no diverting, just an answer - why are you here talking to us?

The thing is, there is a chance that the followers of the false sects could still go to Heaven. It's the leaders of the churches that have pretty much signed their souls over to Hell for material gain in this life. The leaders know what they are doing. The people are just innocent victims. God may have pity on them and still take them to Heaven.

but atheists are a whole different ball of wax. They deny the creator, so God denies them. The only way back is to give glory and praise to the King.

You do realize that in most churches the CONGREGATION hires the preacher, right? It's not the other way around where the preacher has the church and people just come to it. Stop living in the 19th century.

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #89 on: November 28, 2013, 04:22:35 PM »
The thing is, there is a chance that the followers of the false sects could still go to Heaven.
How do you know which are false sects and which are genuine sects?
Quote
It's the leaders of the churches that have pretty much signed their souls over to Hell for material gain in this life. The leaders know what they are doing. The people are just innocent victims.
So you are saying that people who go to church are quite incapable of thinking for themselves? I agree.

Quote
but atheists are a whole different ball of wax. They deny the creator, so God denies them.

Why don't you just crack open a Bible form time to time instead of making things up? Do you know, there are few things worse in this world that so-called CHristians who have never read a Bible:

God tells you to kill non-believers. (I wonder why he does that?) 

Quote
The only way back is to give glory and praise to the King.

Or, if you are a Hindu, a blue elephant...
[/quote]
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #90 on: November 29, 2013, 05:07:59 AM »
The thing is, there is a chance that the followers of the false sects could still go to Heaven. It's the leaders of the churches that have pretty much signed their souls over to Hell for material gain in this life. The leaders know what they are doing. The people are just innocent victims. God may have pity on them and still take them to Heaven.

but atheists are a whole different ball of wax. They deny the creator, so God denies them. The only way back is to give glory and praise to the King.

Look at all those maybes in your post.  There is "a chance" they will be okay.  They "could" still go to heaven.  God "may" have pity on them.

That's a whole lot of uncertainty you are expressing there, for the innocent victims that are trying their best to follow what they believe god wants.  I'm amazed that you are prepared to devote less time to them than to those people who are standing up and saying "screw god".  It just makes no sense.

It's like....you see two people by the railroad tracks.
One is saying "I know there are trains coming.  I don't care", and walking in the middle of the tracks.
The other is saying "I know there are trains.  I'm pretty sure I am walking in the right place to be safe - I sure WANT to be okay", and walking with one foot either side of the rail.

You are saying that you would prefer to devote your time trying to save the first guy, rather than the second guy?  The guy who definitely WANTS to do the righ thing, but has the wrong info?  Rather than the guy who has the info, but deliberately chooses not to accept it?

I can't get my head round that.  Can you explain it for me please?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Mrjason

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2013, 05:15:05 AM »
<snip>
but atheists are a whole different ball of wax. They deny the creator, so God denies them. The only way back is to give glory and praise to the King.

So god knows we exist, knows we are mistaken about his existence but chooses to condemn us because of a mistake.

That's a bit petty from an all powerful one isn't it?

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #92 on: November 29, 2013, 07:27:01 AM »
I can't get my head round that.  Can you explain it for me please?

I can explain it. Skep likes to argue with atheists because because he's tried arguing with Christians, and he knows who he'd rather hang out with.

I strive for clarity, but aim for confusion.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #93 on: November 29, 2013, 11:55:12 AM »
The homeless guy is richer than Bill Gates if you think about it logically.

It's funny you mention ol' Billy, He's an atheist and check this out:
https://www.google.com/#q=bill+gates+average+donations

He's also willed ALL of his assets to various charities, and the B&M Gates foundation, his kids ain't getting shit.

Wow. A rich atheist gives money, while rich Christians just give excuses. Jesus didn't really mean we should give away all our stuff to help the poor-- even though he said that a bunch of times. 'Cause that would make Jesus a commie, as well as an un-American long-haired sandal-wearing unemployed Middle Eastern hippie who lived with a bunch of other unmarried guys.

And he really did not mean that stuff about rich people not getting into heaven. It was a metaphor. Because poor people are really rich, which is why they should not be getting any money or health care from the government. Or maybe he only meant that the ancient Israelites should give all they own to the poor.  Nobody really knows. But you have to read it in context. And 1+1. Contingent. Can't not exist.


And since you can know a tree by its fruits, godless atheist Bill Gates is big, beautiful Jesus-y Christian tree and most Christians are just little scraggly shrubs. Because he is voluntarily giving his money away to help people--without believing in heaven as a reward or hell as a punishment. 

But he is still going to straight hell, no matter how many people he helps, because he has not accepted Jesus.  >:(

See how logical it all is? &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2013, 11:20:54 PM »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #95 on: December 07, 2013, 12:29:23 PM »
The homeless guy is richer than Bill Gates if you think about it logically.

It's funny you mention ol' Billy, He's an atheist and check this out:
https://www.google.com/#q=bill+gates+average+donations

He's also willed ALL of his assets to various charities, and the B&M Gates foundation, his kids ain't getting shit.

Wow. A rich atheist gives money, while rich Christians just give excuses. Jesus didn't really mean we should give away all our stuff to help the poor-- even though he said that a bunch of times. 'Cause that would make Jesus a commie, as well as an un-American long-haired sandal-wearing unemployed Middle Eastern hippie who lived with a bunch of other unmarried guys.

And he really did not mean that stuff about rich people not getting into heaven. It was a metaphor. Because poor people are really rich, which is why they should not be getting any money or health care from the government. Or maybe he only meant that the ancient Israelites should give all they own to the poor.  Nobody really knows. But you have to read it in context. And 1+1. Contingent. Can't not exist.


And since you can know a tree by its fruits, godless atheist Bill Gates is big, beautiful Jesus-y Christian tree and most Christians are just little scraggly shrubs. Because he is voluntarily giving his money away to help people--without believing in heaven as a reward or hell as a punishment. 

But he is still going to straight hell, no matter how many people he helps, because he has not accepted Jesus.  >:(

See how logical it all is? &)

Wow. It's quite obvious that you know nothing of Christianity.

Just here to poke away with a stick.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #96 on: December 07, 2013, 01:23:59 PM »
Didn't Jesus say people should help the poor, give away their stuff to the poor, not to store up riches on earth, to help the least among us, etc. etc. ?

Or did Jesus say to get as rich as possible any way you can, screw the poor,  and die with the most toys?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nam

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #97 on: December 07, 2013, 03:43:43 PM »
Didn't Jesus say people should help the poor, give away their stuff to the poor, not to store up riches on earth, to help the least among us, etc. etc. ?

Or did Jesus say to get as rich as possible any way you can, screw the poor,  and die with the most toys?

I get Christian flyers in the mail showing verse by Jesus that states exactly your last paragraph but for them, not you, of course.

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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #98 on: December 07, 2013, 04:59:01 PM »
Didn't Jesus say people should help the poor, give away their stuff to the poor, not to store up riches on earth, to help the least among us, etc. etc. ?

Or did Jesus say to get as rich as possible any way you can, screw the poor,  and die with the most toys?

No, you don't even understand the story or the context. Your blind hatred of Christianity is clouding your judgment.

Do you honestly think Jesus intended for the poor to become rich and the rich to become poor? That is nonsensical, for if the rich gave all their stuff to the poor, the poor would now be rich and would have to give their stuff back.

It would be like an endless game of hot potato.

Hot Potato is NOT what Jesus intended.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #99 on: December 07, 2013, 05:12:58 PM »
I don't hate Christianity-- I was raised a Christian and many of my family and friends are Christians of one kind or another. My husband is a Christian and my daughter is a Christian (this week). I love them more than anything, but I just don't believe in their religion.

My daughter loves Harry Potter and Twilight. I don't hate Harry Potter and Twilight. I am just not into it. But if Harry Potter fans were lobbying to change our laws to be more respectful of wizardry and to get those books taught as scientific fact in my daughter's school, I would be fighting against them. Not out of hatred but because the books are about magic and fantasy, not about reality. Just like the bible is about magic and fantasy, not about reality.

Even so, skeptic, you can't explain why non-Christians[1] bother to donate money to the poor or give time and attention to people less lucky than they are.

I guess it is that "when non-Christian people are nice it is because god's word is written on everyone's heart, except when they are not nice, it isn't" stuff again. Which again leads to a problem when there are non-Christians, like Bill Gates, who are better people than Christians, like most televangelists.[2] :o

Where is that "by their fruits ye shall know them" when you need it? Or is it invisible, intangible spiritual fruit that was being discussed, rather than real earthly help? &)
 1. who are therefore are going straight to hell, especially atheists who could care less about god, Jesus and the bible, but also Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and all the people who think they are following a Christian religion but are misled by demons, like Catholics , Mormons and JW's
 2. I know, bad Christians are not really Christians...but are nice atheists therefore not really atheists?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Antidote

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #100 on: December 07, 2013, 08:43:10 PM »
Didn't Jesus say people should help the poor, give away their stuff to the poor, not to store up riches on earth, to help the least among us, etc. etc. ?

Or did Jesus say to get as rich as possible any way you can, screw the poor,  and die with the most toys?

No, you don't even understand the story or the context. Your blind hatred of Christianity is clouding your judgment.

Do you honestly think Jesus intended for the poor to become rich and the rich to become poor? That is nonsensical, for if the rich gave all their stuff to the poor, the poor would now be rich and would have to give their stuff back.

It would be like an endless game of hot potato.

Hot Potato is NOT what Jesus intended.

Quote from: Mathew 19
The Rich Young Man
19:16-29pp -- Mk 10:17-30; Lk 18:18-30
16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18 "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony,
19 honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.' "
20 "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
27 Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"
28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

That enough context for you skep?
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

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Offline Betelnut

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #101 on: December 07, 2013, 09:34:29 PM »
Skep's math reminds me of this fantastic They Might Be Giants song:

There's only one everything
Remember these words
There's only one everything
And if you go out and count up everything
It all adds up to one

There's only one everything
The last time I checked
There's only one everything
It kinda makes sense that there would only be
Just one, not ten, not three

If you get all the stuff together
And you have not left something out
Then could there still be anything left over?
I'm pretty sure that means there could not

We share the same omniverse
Please clean your room
We share the same omniverse
And even though you are over here and not there
There's just one everywhere

You got the cars, the trees, the house
There are some clouds, some birds, a monster
And when it's all too much to count up
You can put it in one pile

What if you drew a giant circle
What if it went around all there is
Then would there still be such a thing as an outside
And does that question even make any sense?

There's only one everything
The last time I checked
There's only one everything
It kinda makes sense that there would only be
Just one, not ten, not three
Not twelve

There's only one everything
Remember these words
There's only one everything
And if you go out and count up everything
It all adds up to one
It all adds up
It all adds up
It all adds up to one

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #102 on: December 09, 2013, 02:35:29 AM »
Wow. It's quite obvious that you know nothing of Christianity.

Matthew 19:24 "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

Matthew 25: "Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. "

Still waiting for Skeptic to put together an honest and considered answer that explains in detail why these words of Jesus do not apply.  Why it is okay for him to keep waaaay more than he gives away to those in need. 

Not "swop places with the poor", because as it happens I agree with him about where that leads (not more bloody lupins!), but Skep, on what grounds do you not give away 90-odd percent of what you have got to a number of poor people in an attempt to ensure that you and they all have the same?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #103 on: December 09, 2013, 04:27:16 PM »
skeptic, there are some Christians who take vows of poverty in keeping with their beliefs about what  Jesus instructed. When they get too many things, they give them away. Are they wrong?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online One Above All

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #104 on: December 09, 2013, 04:30:51 PM »
skeptic, there are some Christians who take vows of poverty in keeping with their beliefs about what  Jesus instructed. When they get too many things, they give them away. Are they wrong?

Chart explaining if a christian (or anyone, really) is wrong, according to skeptic54768's demon(s) religious beliefs.

Do they agree with skeptic54768?
            |                       |
          Yes                   No
            |                       |
   They're right          Demons

Forgive my laziness (not making an actual image).
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #105 on: December 09, 2013, 08:26:49 PM »
No, you don't even understand the story or the context. Your blind hatred of Christianity is clouding your judgment.

Do you honestly think Jesus intended for the poor to become rich and the rich to become poor? That is nonsensical, for if the rich gave all their stuff to the poor, the poor would now be rich and would have to give their stuff back.

It would be like an endless game of hot potato.

Hot Potato is NOT what Jesus intended.

Don't you realise that the poor outnumber the rich by such a huge number that the poor would never become rich? Your demon is clouding your judgement once again. You always take the most immoral line.

Video: who am I to support thousands of people? This mustard sketch should convince you that your logic of the hot potato is wrong.



It should lighten up the mood too.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #106 on: December 11, 2013, 08:46:44 AM »

Wow. It's quite obvious that you know nothing of Christianity.

I know it is indistinguishable from complete fiction.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #107 on: December 11, 2013, 11:24:17 AM »
Jesus never intended for the poor to become rich. Jesus did not intend for slaves to be free or women equal to men either. And my daddy did not intend for me to be an atheist or to go to college. So what?

Who cares what some guy thought 2000 years ago, if it is not relevant to how we think and live today?

Did he marry, raise a family, run a business or ever even hold a job? Did he have any clue about how to maintain a modern multicultural democratic society? 


Why are we, in 2013, still paying attention to this Jesus guy again?  &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #108 on: December 11, 2013, 11:29:41 PM »
Jesus never intended for the poor to become rich. Jesus did not intend for slaves to be free or women equal to men either. And my daddy did not intend for me to be an atheist or to go to college. So what?

Who cares what some guy thought 2000 years ago, if it is not relevant to how we think and live today?

Did he marry, raise a family, run a business or ever even hold a job? Did he have any clue about how to maintain a modern multicultural democratic society? 


Why are we, in 2013, still paying attention to this Jesus guy again?  &)

He was a carpenter apparently...

But do people really look into this? Are there any stories of him actually building shit? Wouldnt something built by Jesus be the finest things ever built? I would like to see anything built by Jesus. You see the structure of anything built by him should far surpass anything else at the time in his genre of carpentry. Surely the man building 22nd century buildings in the 1st century AD would have caused a stir, no? Or was Jesus' knowledge of carpentry only on the level of other carpenters of the time period? Obviously the answer has implications beyond boat building.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #109 on: December 11, 2013, 11:45:11 PM »
Jesus never intended for the poor to become rich. Jesus did not intend for slaves to be free or women equal to men either. And my daddy did not intend for me to be an atheist or to go to college. So what?

Who cares what some guy thought 2000 years ago, if it is not relevant to how we think and live today?

Did he marry, raise a family, run a business or ever even hold a job? Did he have any clue about how to maintain a modern multicultural democratic society? 


Why are we, in 2013, still paying attention to this Jesus guy again?  &)

He was a carpenter apparently...

But do people really look into this? Are there any stories of him actually building shit? Wouldnt something built by Jesus be the finest things ever built? I would like to see anything built by Jesus. You see the structure of anything built by him should far surpass anything else at the time in his genre of carpentry. Surely the man building 22nd century buildings in the 1st century AD would have caused a stir, no? Or was Jesus' knowledge of carpentry only on the level of other carpenters of the time period? Obviously the answer has implications beyond boat building.

More likely he worked with stone.

Stonehenge is yet to be explained.

And I, for one, consider that to be completely unrelated.
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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #110 on: December 11, 2013, 11:52:53 PM »
Stonehenge is yet to be explained.

Further to that way of thinking: maybe Jesus was a metallurgist, and build UFOs? Maybe we can still see them around, today?
I strive for clarity, but aim for confusion.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #111 on: December 11, 2013, 11:56:27 PM »
Stonehenge is yet to be explained.

Further to that way of thinking: maybe Jesus was a metallurgist, and build UFOs? Maybe we can still see them around, today?

How do we know UFO's are metal?
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #112 on: December 12, 2013, 12:30:22 AM »
How do we know UFO's are metal?

That's true. They could be carbon fibre, or any of the Radical isotopes with negative atomic weight.
http://andromeda.wikia.com/wiki/Radical_Isotopes
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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #113 on: December 12, 2013, 12:36:01 AM »

More likely he worked with stone.

Stonehenge is yet to be explained.

And I, for one, consider that to be completely unrelated.
There are some credible theories as to how and why Stonehenge was built, however I still would not call it modern carpentry.  If people before Jesus' time were able to build these



then at the very least, Jesus should have been able to build this...



not just this...


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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #114 on: December 12, 2013, 12:37:26 AM »

How do we know UFO's are metal?

the wreckage... duuuuuuh

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Re: Does the second commandment still apply or not?
« Reply #115 on: December 12, 2013, 12:51:22 AM »

How do we know UFO's are metal?

the wreckage... duuuuuuh

My apologies, Will Smith.
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.