Author Topic: Religious Babysitters  (Read 476 times)

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Offline Ron Jeremy

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Religious Babysitters
« on: November 17, 2013, 06:07:07 PM »
I've been horrified to discover the answer virtually every Christian gives to the following question;

'BibleGod appears before you. He does whatever is required to convince you that he really is BibleGod, then tells you to murder your children. What do you do?'

There's lots of squirming and avoiding ("BibleGod wouldn't ask this" - yes he would, he already has, and who are YOU to impose limits on your god?), until eventually every Christian I have asked this admits that they would do as BibleGod commands and murder their children. Not only that, they'd murder MY children if they thought BibleGod commanded it.

Since hearing this answer, I will never allow a committed bible thumping Christian to babysit my children, there's a few in my family and much as they're lovely people; I couldn't trust them to know right from wrong.

So; would you rather a Christian babysat your kids or an atheist?
Believers of other religions - would you prefer a Christian or an atheist to babysit?
Christians; would you prefer the believers of non-Christian religions (such as religions that have a history of following blindly what their god says) or an atheist to babysit your children?

And what reason do you have for your answer?

And one more. If BibleGod appeared before you and commanded you to murder your children; what exactly would he have to do to convince you he actually was BibleGod?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline median

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 06:50:54 PM »
These are some good questions. I'd like to see how Septic attempts to answer them (albeit I doubt he will actually answer the OP, rather just be incomplete/selective).

Now, the standards that I would use to determine whether or not someone is fit to babysit a child have a lot more to do with their qualifications/reviews than they do with what religion they follow. We know Christians are extremely inconsistent when it comes to following their religion. Each Christian cherry-picks which parst of the bible to literally follow and which to ignore or rationalize away. With that, I'm more concerned with how they have performed in the past and what terms/conditions they agree to from the start. I'm doubtful that any professing Christian is going to harm children (as those cases are extremely rare today in such situations). So, overall I would just want someone qualified who has a good reputation and clearly would not follow a 'voice in the head' if they thought they heard it (i.e. - they would call it a demon etc).
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Ron Jeremy

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2013, 03:05:20 AM »
I've no problem with the 'average' Christian babysitting, vast majority are genuinely good people. But when one readily agrees to the concept of murdering children because a being more powerful than them has given the order....

Would they do it for real? I don't know. I've told everyone that if they ever think their god is telling them to murder; it's because they're mentally ill. But the trouble is, when one is in the grip of that deep delusion, one's moral yard stick is compromised.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2013, 03:20:49 AM »
While I have no trouble feeling the same disgust you do towards people who would kill their kids (and others) for god, I'm not one to panic when selecting otherwise responsible people to care for my children. I doubt that all of my kids teachers were atheists, I know their scout leaders were not, and, as a parent, the availability of a responsible teenaged girl to care for my little boy was more important than which church she did not attend.

The number of kids that get killed by parents thinking god told them to do it is quite small. More people die every year falling onto the upturned knives in their open dishwashers. I personally try to find better things to panic about.

Of course, I may be a bit more blasé because my kids survived their childhood. But I suspect your concerns are a little over the top.

That's not to say I would leave my kids with our current over the top theist, though. There are limits, even to my nonchalant approach to the issue.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Ron Jeremy

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2013, 03:29:42 AM »
Yep, a fair point. I would have no problem at all with the huge majority of Christians, who as I say, are on the whole really decent good people. My issue is with the tiny majority that have stated they would kill children; we know one well and although a good person; when they make that sort of statement, I cannot trust them to have the moral capability to know right from wrong. I am surprised though by the number that say they would murder children in that scenario.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2013, 12:43:23 PM »
I've been horrified to discover the answer virtually every Christian gives to the following question;

'BibleGod appears before you. He does whatever is required to convince you that he really is BibleGod, then tells you to murder your children. What do you do?'

There's lots of squirming and avoiding ("BibleGod wouldn't ask this" - yes he would, he already has, and who are YOU to impose limits on your god?), until eventually every Christian I have asked this admits that they would do as BibleGod commands and murder their children. Not only that, they'd murder MY children if they thought BibleGod commanded it.

You mean you wouldn't kill your kids? I was talking to God the other day and He told me that He was frustrated that man for the most part doesn't get that the reality He put before us is really just bullshit. He laughed about how he is the only thing that is truly real and all else is just a product of his imagination. Because of this, the only thing that matters is being relevant to him. If he feels you're relevant enough to pay attention to (sucking up via praise tends to help) then he will "think" you into a situation he deems pleasurable to you and desirable for his own thought process.

All this said, being good, moral, etc. really has no merit. God has already thought everything thru so it's not like you can deviate from the program anyway. So go ahead and kill your kids, kill yourself even, just make sure that in doing whatever it is that you do that your deeds interest God since the only thing that is worth anything is us godly machinations being relevant to the great machinizer on high. If we are, he will keep thinking of us and if we aren't there's his mental garbage dump full of burning refuse that he will relegate us to foreverish.

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2013, 01:23:25 PM »
Well the majority of Christians I know / have known seem to be more in it for the social club that the religion though most of my experience seems to be with the Church of England which would explain quite a lot! After all, I suspect most don't expect that god would ask anyone to do anything immoral and god obliges by keeping quiet and not asking for anything.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline neopagan

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2013, 01:38:57 PM »
RonJ,

I am starting to wonder about friends infected by this god virus.  Maybe not to the point of outright distrust right away - but having second thoughts.

As you may have found, I don't think many xians give that much critical thoughts to their beliefs, and I would hope the (demonstrably disturbed) ones you have talked to and have admitted they would kill their kids will start thinking about their position. Maybe you helped some...?

I will say that in my many years as a xian, I eventually swore off using "xian businesses" long before I deconverted. Foolishly, I once thought ads for businesses mentioning xian or that stupid ichthys (fish) symbol meant I would be dealing with a person of high morals... wrong.  I was burned many times and finally just decided (as a xian) I would avoid anyone who put that nonsense in their ad, or I heard recommended by a fellow xian "because so and so is a believer."

Examples:
  1. xian auto mechanic - not only diagnosed a problem that did not exist on my vehicle and offered to fix it for a "cheaper price since he was a believer and didn't rip people off" but got furious when I got a second opinion that was a) correct and b) much cheaper.  When I warned a fellow churchmember about how I'd been treated, the xian mechanic heard about it and told me I should "forgive him for his error and move on" - not that he had admitted it or even apologized.
  2. A recommended xian dentist who diagnosed me with four quadrant advanced periodontal disease (I had none of the symptoms and nearly went into stunned shock when I heard this at a routine cleaning). Two dentists' opinions later - no such disease and both told me the guy was trying to scam me and told me to report it to the state licensing department (I did).
  3. Xian painter who told me he could get a better deal on house paint for me on his account at a paint store. I bought the paint, gave it to him, and he returned it and usd a much cheaper version and pocketed the difference. I found out by finding the 3 five gallon buckets disposed of in my neighbor's trash (and called the store and found out the details - he claimed he got mixed up lol).

Just a few examples, before I wised up...

Now, are there jerk atheist, agnostic, etc businesses, babysitters, etc? Sure, but they don't advertise to draw people in with their holier than thou act...

 
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 03:58:46 AM »
There is a very committed Christian in my family.  Who buys and sells pirated DVDs.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Ron Jeremy

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2013, 04:20:02 AM »
I know a fair few 'Sunday only' Christians and I think they are in it only for the social life and the misplaced belief that their children need 'Christian morals'. I do take every opportunity to remind them that morals aren't Christian. Those Christians I trust, they are also as it happens Old Earth evolutionary Christians.
The ones I don't trust are the few Creationists who take the view that because this god of theirs is all powerful, he is allowed to commit any atrocity he wishes. Those are the ones I would not trust to babysit because they cannot differentiate right from wrong.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2013, 04:20:11 AM »
African scammers are devoutly religious. You can engage them fairly rapidly in religious talk. It's easy to get them started o the topic, because they are usually claiming to know a priest, who is supervising them. You can get a good supply of scams from the 419eater forums, if you don't have any of your own. It would make an amusign thread, to publish the most weird conversations. (I can't be really bothered.)
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 10:29:31 AM »
I know a fair few 'Sunday only' Christians and I think they are in it only for the social life and the misplaced belief that their children need 'Christian morals'.

Bit of a tangent.....

But in my experience, I've run into quite the opposite. Most Christians I know are exactly this type of Sunday go to Church Christians with very little faith or conviction beyond that of believing there is a powerful god that created, loves, and knows them who sent his son to pay the price for our sins. The overwhelming majority do not know the Bible very well at all and are only able to parrot memory verse texts that serve to help reinforce the faith I described above.

I do take every opportunity to remind them that morals aren't Christian.

I swear, this is the most difficult reality to get Christians to understand. They overvalue the Christian structure because many honestly believe that one cannot truly be a good person without "Godly" values. 

Those Christians I trust, they are also as it happens Old Earth evolutionary Christians.

I only know a fraction of believers that even give a thought to such issues. In my experience, most are oblivious to the fact that the religion they claim to be a part of advocates a young Earth. Seriously, it's to the point where it I was wanting to be an antagonist I'd use the Bible to attack them and show them that weren't RealTrueChristians!


Offline Jag

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2013, 11:31:01 AM »
I only know a fraction of believers that even give a thought to such issues. In my experience, most are oblivious to the fact that the religion they claim to be a part of advocates a young Earth. Seriously, it's to the point where it I was wanting to be an antagonist I'd use the Bible to attack them and show them that weren't RealTrueChristians!

IRL, I leave them alone, right up until they knock on my door and want to talk about it. Even then I generally go pretty easy on them unless they get pushy and/or preachy. Once they go there, out comes the Bible and we have a chat until I either make them angry enough to stomp off in a huff, or unsettled enough to wander away looking a little dazed.

With the run-of-the-mill believer that you describe I usually just ignore or downplay the rare mention of religion. I just don't see a point in making an issue of it, but I also casually mention cool science stuff around them more often, especially about space - just little reminders about how much we're learning about the nature of the universe. I stick mortar into their god-gaps without them even noticing.
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline Strawman

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2013, 09:55:04 PM »
So Christians really do have absolute morality; they will do ABSOLUTELY anything god tells them to.
If God exists at all he clearly wishes to reside exclusively in the imagination.

Offline median

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2013, 10:17:58 PM »
So Christians really do have absolute morality; they will do ABSOLUTELY anything god tells them to.

Or, to put it more accurately, they will do absolutely anything their SPAG (self-talk) tells them to do!
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Strawman

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Re: Religious Babysitters
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2013, 10:28:20 PM »
So Christians really do have absolute morality; they will do ABSOLUTELY anything god tells them to.

Or, to put it more accurately, they will do absolutely anything their SPAG (self-talk) tells them to do!

I automatically translate "god" to "the voice in your head", I should probably watch that, I forget that there are people who believe it's real.
If God exists at all he clearly wishes to reside exclusively in the imagination.