Author Topic: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?  (Read 20385 times)

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Offline SevenPatch

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #783 on: December 13, 2013, 05:45:38 PM »
Wait a second.  Laws are immaterial right?  So the Law of Falling is immaterial, yet falling is material.  How is something both immaterial and material?

Is this Skeptic logic?

Ah never mind, materialism, idealism, dualism.  I'm having an off day. 
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #784 on: December 13, 2013, 06:39:07 PM »
“Laws” are (i) mathematical representations of systems and/or (ii) Empirical rules for a general system. First there has to be the system, then an intelligent human comes along and realises why the system works -> a human creates the law as an explanation that satisfies other humans and can be seen to be true.

That's the point, Graybeard!

 A system needs intelligence to create it.
A system is designed for a purpose by intelligent minds.

How can you have a system without a mind creating it?
A system, by definition, denotes intelligence behind it.
So was it upbringing that brought you to these conclusions?  I do not see any education involved to bring you to these conclusions,I do however see a lack of education.

 We see superstition in all cultures,it however does not halt education
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #785 on: December 13, 2013, 08:33:43 PM »
Hey, Skep, how do you know the entire Bible is true?

DODGE EXPECTED

Hey, Skep, why do animals have souls?

DODGE PROBABLY EXPECTED

Hey, Skep, why do you discount the Many Worlds and Transactional interpretation of QM, which requires no observer?

DODGE EXPECTED

Hey, Skep, how can our soul experience our dreams and memories? Can you outline the interface between soul and brain? Does it use a new type of USB interface?

DODGE EXPECTED

Hey, Skep, why is there a correlation with brain size and intelligence?

WILL BE INTERESTED TO HEAR YOUR IDLE SPECULATION

(anyone have any other outstanding questions to ask Skep?)
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #786 on: December 13, 2013, 08:51:15 PM »
Skeptic logic = oxymoron
jumbo shrimp
biblegod

dont even ask me how

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #787 on: December 14, 2013, 02:01:32 AM »
I'm getting the impression that Skeptic is trying to personify EVERYTHING.
Atoms "know" what to do because his god has told them.
Ants "know" how to build hives because his god has told them.
These things then all "know" to follow gods rules.
It's like saying we get pebbles on the beach because god told them thats where they should live.

Skeptics logic circuit is probably well beyond repair by now- his god virus has become immune to the usual treatment of rational thinking.
RIP skeps logic, this is a terminal case.
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #788 on: December 14, 2013, 02:55:18 AM »
I'm getting the impression that Skeptic is trying to personify EVERYTHING.
Atoms "know" what to do because his god has told them.
Ants "know" how to build hives because his god has told them.
These things then all "know" to follow gods rules.
It's like saying we get pebbles on the beach because god told them thats where they should live.

Skeptics logic circuit is probably well beyond repair by now- his god virus has become immune to the usual treatment of rational thinking.
RIP skeps logic, this is a terminal case.


You say that as if I'm some kind of disease.
You know who had that mentality? Nazis.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #789 on: December 14, 2013, 03:04:03 AM »
Hey, Skep, how do you know the entire Bible is true?

Lots of things have been proven.
Ron Wyatt (R.I.P.) found Noah's Ark and pieces of Pharaoh's chariots on the sea floor at the spot where Moses parted it. Look up Mr. Wyatt.

How do you know it is false? Just based on your say-so? At least my side has evidence.

DODGE EXPECTED

Hey, Skep, why do animals have souls?

Animals do not have souls. They go on instinct.

DODGE PROBABLY EXPECTED

Hey, Skep, why do you discount the Many Worlds and Transactional interpretation of QM, which requires no observer?

What do you mean? Nothing can be described without an observer to describe it.

DODGE EXPECTED

Hey, Skep, how can our soul experience our dreams and memories? Can you outline the interface between soul and brain? Does it use a new type of USB interface?

Not sure what this question means. The soul is the essence within you that you can not empirically observe. Without a soul, you're just dead flesh.

DODGE EXPECTED

Hey, Skep, why is there a correlation with brain size and intelligence?

You tell me. Some people would say that an atheist who plays x-box all day eating cheetos is not automatically considered intelligent just because he's an atheist.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #790 on: December 14, 2013, 03:07:12 AM »
Skeptics logic circuit is probably well beyond repair by now- his god virus has become immune to the usual treatment of rational thinking.
RIP skeps logic, this is a terminal case.
You say that as if I'm some kind of disease.
You know who had that mentality? Nazis.
You are a person who has admitted they would eat a liquified person if your god told you to.
I would not have compared you to the Nazis, that is a whole different level.
Seeing as you mentioned it, do you feel you have the nazi mentality?
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #791 on: December 14, 2013, 03:08:41 AM »
A system, by definition, denotes intelligence behind it.
You're making things up again. Give me a link to your definition. What are you using, Merriam-Webster?

The onus is on you to describe a system without intelligence. Every job I have ever worked had a system they used ad they taught me the system.

Should I assume the system was created without intelligence?

flipping burden of proof, your argument is invalid

No, my argument is based on empiricism. I see systems created using intelligence. The universe is a majorly complex system, as is the human body. This means it's only logical that intelligence is responsible for the universe and everything in it.

Logic and empiricism are 2 gifts from God that we can use to deduce his existence. The problem is that a lot of atheists try to turn it around against God.

But the facts show that empiricism and logic prove God's existence.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #792 on: December 14, 2013, 03:09:56 AM »
Animals do not have souls. They go on instinct.

Quote
Without a soul, you're just dead flesh.
So animals are just dead flesh? My dogs may well think otherwise.
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #793 on: December 14, 2013, 03:10:36 AM »
Lots of things have been proven.
Ron Wyatt (R.I.P.) found Noah's Ark and pieces of Pharaoh's chariots on the sea floor at the spot where Moses parted it. Look up Mr. Wyatt.

There is no evidence of the Ark, nor the flood.

Animals do not have souls. They go on instinct.

Correct, as souls do not exist.

Not sure what this question means. The soul is the essence within you that you can not empirically observe. Without a soul, you're just dead flesh.

Incorrect, as souls do not exist, the "essence" which you may be referring to may be the electrons bouncing around in your skull.

You tell me. Some people would say that an atheist who plays x-box all day eating cheetos is not automatically considered intelligent just because he's an atheist.

Being an atheist does not imply intelligence, but it does imply the lack of delusion.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #794 on: December 14, 2013, 03:12:06 AM »
Skeptics logic circuit is probably well beyond repair by now- his god virus has become immune to the usual treatment of rational thinking.
RIP skeps logic, this is a terminal case.
You say that as if I'm some kind of disease.
You know who had that mentality? Nazis.
You are a person who has admitted they would eat a liquified person if your god told you to.
I would not have compared you to the Nazis, that is a whole different level.
Seeing as you mentioned it, do you feel you have the nazi mentality?

When God tells you to do something, you do it. Period.
God is the Eternal King of everything. He has the right to do what He feels is best.
Going against God is quite foolish and will get you absolutely nowhere. Just look at Satan and his demons.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #795 on: December 14, 2013, 03:13:32 AM »
Being an atheist does not imply intelligence, but it does imply the lack of delusion.
Excellent quote !
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #796 on: December 14, 2013, 03:16:07 AM »
When God tells you to do something, you do it. Period.
God is the Eternal King of everything. He has the right to do what He feels is best.
Going against God is quite foolish and will get you absolutely nowhere. Just look at Satan and his demons.

So you consider yourself a slave to a nonexistent being...

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #797 on: December 14, 2013, 03:16:47 AM »
When God tells you to do something, you do it. Period.
God is the Eternal King of everything. He has the right to do what He feels is best.
Going against God is quite foolish and will get you absolutely nowhere. Just look at Satan and his demons.
This is the problem, any message you get is not from god.
If the demon in your head tells you to do something you will do it as
A- you think it is god
B- you have lost the ability to think for yourself

PS. demons are not real either.
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #798 on: December 14, 2013, 03:16:54 AM »
Animals do not have souls. They go on instinct.

Quote
Without a soul, you're just dead flesh.
So animals are just dead flesh? My dogs may well think otherwise.

Animals are alive but they have no soul. They aren't made in the image and likeness of God. It's why they can't do mathematics and attend philosophy class.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #799 on: December 14, 2013, 03:18:17 AM »
Being an atheist does not imply intelligence, but it does imply the lack of delusion.

There are theists out there who believe that atheism is a delusion.

I didn't say it's a delusion. Just stating what others think.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #800 on: December 14, 2013, 03:21:51 AM »
Animals are alive but they have no soul. They aren't made in the image and likeness of God. It's why they can't do mathematics and attend philosophy class.

And for a bloody long time neither did we.
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #801 on: December 14, 2013, 03:24:59 AM »
I didn't say it's a delusion. Just stating what others think.

What other people "think" is irrelevant, only facts matter.

Animals are alive but they have no soul. They aren't made in the image and likeness of God. It's why they can't do mathematics and attend philosophy class.

You do realize that humans are animals too, right?
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Offline Astreja

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #802 on: December 14, 2013, 03:26:01 AM »
When God tells you to do something, you do it. Period.

Really?  Let's put it to the test.  Ask your god to come here, right here and right now, and tell Me to do something.  (throws Canadian $5 bill on table) Bet you he can't do it.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #803 on: December 14, 2013, 03:26:29 AM »
Animals are alive but they have no soul. They aren't made in the image and likeness of God. It's why they can't do mathematics and attend philosophy class.

And for a bloody long time neither did we.

Interesting you post that picture. I see you believe that things get more complex over time instead of progressing toward disorder. This is an interesting belief because it contradicts what we know about entropy. Energy in a closed system can not increase the order of things. Since the universe is a closed system, we would not be able to see anything progressing from disorder to order.

Facts are facts. I didn't create thermodynamics.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Astreja

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #804 on: December 14, 2013, 03:27:53 AM »
Since the universe is a closed system...

No evidence for that one way or the other, sorry.  Besides, we have a source of energy to draw upon.  Notice that really bright light in the sky, about 93 million miles away?
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #805 on: December 14, 2013, 03:29:10 AM »
When God tells you to do something, you do it. Period.

Really?  Let's put it to the test.  Ask your god to come here, right here and right now, and tell Me to do something.  (throws Canadian $5 bill on table) Bet you he can't do it.

That isn't how God conducts Himself. He is not the one that needs to prove himself to you. You need to prove yourself to Him.

Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #806 on: December 14, 2013, 03:30:28 AM »
Since the universe is a closed system...

No evidence for that one way or the other, sorry.  Besides, we have a source of energy to draw upon.  Notice that really bright light in the sky, about 93 million miles away?

I have noticed that. The sun is still inside a closed system. Where does the universe get its energy if it's an open system?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #807 on: December 14, 2013, 03:32:36 AM »
I have noticed that. The sun is still inside a closed system. Where does the universe get its energy if it's an open system?

Matter turns to energy, energy turns to matter, and both cannot be destroyed, only changed.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #808 on: December 14, 2013, 03:33:42 AM »
Interesting you post that picture. I see you believe that things get more complex over time instead of progressing toward disorder. This is an interesting belief because it contradicts what we know about entropy. Energy in a closed system can not increase the order of things. Since the universe is a closed system, we would not be able to see anything progressing from disorder to order.
Facts are facts. I didn't create thermodynamics
What the hell has evolution got to do with thermodynamics?
Facts are facts so please start listening when people give you actual facts. The picture shows our evolution.
What point are we in gods image?
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #809 on: December 14, 2013, 03:34:38 AM »
I have noticed that. The sun is still inside a closed system. Where does the universe get its energy if it's an open system?

Matter turns to energy, energy turns to matter, and both cannot be destroyed, only changed.

Except for that pesky entropy. Things move towards disorder. If anything, we should've started with humans and moved towards single cell amoebas.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #810 on: December 14, 2013, 03:36:16 AM »
Why do you side step evolution?
Is it an uncomfortable truth that you cannot directly answer as it is not covered by the bible?
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #811 on: December 14, 2013, 03:36:32 AM »
Interesting you post that picture. I see you believe that things get more complex over time instead of progressing toward disorder. This is an interesting belief because it contradicts what we know about entropy. Energy in a closed system can not increase the order of things. Since the universe is a closed system, we would not be able to see anything progressing from disorder to order.
Facts are facts. I didn't create thermodynamics
What the hell has evolution got to do with thermodynamics?
Facts are facts so please start listening when people give you actual facts. The picture shows our evolution.
What point are we in gods image?

A different interpretation of the fossils is that they are different species that God created, instead of the fossils being a step by step process into modern man.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)