Author Topic: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?  (Read 17083 times)

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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #406 on: December 06, 2013, 12:14:04 PM »
it is!

My friend back in the day was bald and his driver's license said:

hair color: bald.

So this means you concede the point?


Is this really what it's going to boil down to?  A misprint on a driver's license?


You know it's beyond pathetic when they argue about some guy's driver's license.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #407 on: December 06, 2013, 12:17:22 PM »
it is!

My friend back in the day was bald and his driver's license said:

hair color: bald.

So this means you concede the point?


Is this really what it's going to boil down to?  A misprint on a driver's license?


You know it's beyond pathetic when they argue about some guy's driver's license.

I think its just the same as saying N/A rather than a misprint.

Anyway, the existential question has been solved by an irrelevant anecdote.
I'm going home.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #408 on: December 06, 2013, 12:20:05 PM »
it is!

My friend back in the day was bald and his driver's license said:

hair color: bald.

So this means you concede the point?


Is this really what it's going to boil down to?  A misprint on a driver's license?


You know it's beyond pathetic when they argue about some guy's driver's license.

Now it's a misprint? The guy was as bald as a cue ball.

Funny how the arguments change to suit the the worldview.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #409 on: December 06, 2013, 12:22:10 PM »
Do you really want to use the Governments judgement to support your argument? The DMV in particular?

So we can use the governments judgment on separation of church and state but not with hair colors?

Something smells fishy here.....
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #410 on: December 06, 2013, 12:23:03 PM »
it is!

My friend back in the day was bald and his driver's license said:

hair color: bald.

So this means you concede the point?


Is this really what it's going to boil down to?  A misprint on a driver's license?


You know it's beyond pathetic when they argue about some guy's driver's license.

It isn't a misprint. Since a desriptor is usually there, something is expected by the system. It isn't a matter of a misprint: it is a matter of semantics for a specific circumstance. Yet, it is just that, semantic games. He is equally part of the religon of "NoFlyingShoesWhileSleeping" as he is a Aflyingshoeist.

You see our common religion of AflyingShoeist has a heirarchy, a holy book, specific tenents of deep solemnity regarding our common belief that shoes do not fly around the room while you are asleep and no recording devices are present.



An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #411 on: December 06, 2013, 12:26:08 PM »
Now it's a misprint? The guy was as bald as a cue ball.

Funny how the arguments change to suit the the worldview.

When your argument needs an aberration to survive, you should find another one. A bureaucratic requirement does not a good argument make. Technically bald is not a hair color, but governments, usually weird, don't count.

We can come up with a lot more examples, and not all of them will have government bailouts for you.

If it is important for your distortion field to think that atheism is a religion, go ahead and lie to yourself about that too. Just don't go having really babyish expectations that all others will agree with you.

I may disagree with your view of your religion, but I accept your definition. That you cannot accept ours from our POV, that only demonstrates the feebleness of your own beliefs.

I ask yet again. Are you clear on any concept?
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #412 on: December 06, 2013, 12:37:18 PM »
I have said this before.

If you think life is just a dream, get a gun, load a round in the chamber, cock it, aim gun to your head (preferably brain), and pull the trigger.

You have nothing to lose, so reply after you have fired.

I never said I believe life is a dream. I'm not a solipsist.

I said that since everything can only be known through minds, then there must be an "eternal mind" that existed long before human minds. For if there was no mind before human minds, then nothing can be known about the external world because you need a mind to describe it. Only an eternal mind gets you out of this problem.

Nothing can be known without minds! So it's nonsensical to try and posit what existed without any minds around!
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #413 on: December 06, 2013, 12:40:14 PM »
So it's nonsensical to try and posit what existed without any minds around![/b][/i][/u]

So it is nonsensical to poit what happens within the chamber of a piston on an internal combustion engine as no "mind" was within said engine. Ok, got it.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #414 on: December 06, 2013, 12:50:45 PM »
So it's nonsensical to try and posit what existed without any minds around![/b][/i][/u]

So it is nonsensical to poit what happens within the chamber of a piston on an internal combustion engine as no "mind" was within said engine. Ok, got it.

God's mind is.

you're failing to understand this.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #415 on: December 06, 2013, 12:52:15 PM »
So it's nonsensical to try and posit what existed without any minds around![/b][/i][/u]

So it is nonsensical to poit what happens within the chamber of a piston on an internal combustion engine as no "mind" was within said engine. Ok, got it.

God's mind is.

you're failing to understand this.

Pot meet kettle.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #416 on: December 06, 2013, 12:56:42 PM »
Pot meet kettle.

-Nam

Reality can only be defined by minds. With no minds around, you can't say what things are like. As soon as you posit something existing outside of your mind, you are using your mind to say that something exists outside of your mind, which is nonsensical.

It's a brick wall, unless you allow for the eternal mind that existed WAYYYY before anyone else did.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #417 on: December 06, 2013, 12:59:28 PM »
Pot meet kettle.

-Nam

Reality can only be defined by minds. With no minds around, you can't say what things are like. As soon as you posit something existing outside of your mind, you are using your mind to say that something exists outside of your mind, which is nonsensical.

It's a brick wall, unless you allow for the eternal mind that existed WAYYYY before anyone else did.

Proving my point. You just don't understand anything anyone here says so instead you reply as if you actually do but they don't match the comments in reply to.

You must be the biggest moron on the planet.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #418 on: December 06, 2013, 01:09:03 PM »
Pot meet kettle.

-Nam

Reality can only be defined by minds. With no minds around, you can't say what things are like. As soon as you posit something existing outside of your mind, you are using your mind to say that something exists outside of your mind, which is nonsensical.

It's a brick wall, unless you allow for the eternal mind that existed WAYYYY before anyone else did.

Proving my point. You just don't understand anything anyone here says so instead you reply as if you actually do but they don't match the comments in reply to.

You must be the biggest moron on the planet.

-Nam

They laughed at a lot of great thinkers in history at first.

Now, nobody's laughing at them anymore.

"Fine line between genius and insanity."

Kant and Hume even admitted Berkeley was a genius.

Please brush up on philosophy:

« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 01:12:01 PM by skeptic54768 »
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #419 on: December 06, 2013, 01:15:18 PM »
Pot meet kettle.

-Nam

Reality can only be defined by minds. With no minds around, you can't say what things are like. As soon as you posit something existing outside of your mind, you are using your mind to say that something exists outside of your mind, which is nonsensical.

It's a brick wall, unless you allow for the eternal mind that existed WAYYYY before anyone else did.
You got baked and watched the matrix trilogy again didn't you?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #420 on: December 06, 2013, 01:16:36 PM »
Pot meet kettle.

-Nam

Reality can only be defined by minds. With no minds around, you can't say what things are like. As soon as you posit something existing outside of your mind, you are using your mind to say that something exists outside of your mind, which is nonsensical.

It's a brick wall, unless you allow for the eternal mind that existed WAYYYY before anyone else did.

Proving my point. You just don't understand anything anyone here says so instead you reply as if you actually do but they don't match the comments in reply to.

You must be the biggest moron on the planet.

-Nam

They laughed at a lot of great thinkers in history at first.

Now, nobody's laughing at them anymore.

"Fine line between genius and insanity."

Kant and Hume even admitted Berkeley was a genius.

You are not a genius, you have a lower IQ than a monkey on steroids.

You say:

Quote
God's mind is.

you're failing to understand this.

Then I reply:

Quote
Pot meet kettle.

Which means that you say we don't understand but you don't understand almost everything of people say to you here thus my reply. But you state something that has nothing to do with what I wrote because you are the one who understands nothing. Then you imply you're a genius. Yeah, you're a genius, at being retarded.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #421 on: December 06, 2013, 01:18:49 PM »
Nam, if you watch that video I posted, you will not see me as crazy. The video is irrefutable.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline RED_ApeTHEIST

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #422 on: December 06, 2013, 01:19:29 PM »
Do you really want to use the Governments judgement to support your argument? The DMV in particular?

So we can use the governments judgment on separation of church and state but not with hair colors?

Something smells fishy here.....

That's a fair point. Thankfully I have all sorts of logical arguments and historical examples of why Theocracy is a bad thing, so I don't need to rely on the government in a logical debate. I only need the government's definition in the  context of working within the systems that the government administrates.

In fact, the governments insistence on strict legalistic policy and thinking is the reason why trusting thier views on something like hair color is suspect. The reason that Bald is listed on the drivers license is because the database needs to distinguish those who cant grow hair from folks with hair of any given color who keep it shaved off. It shows the government's inherent tendency towards confusion when the strict legalistic framework of the law is unable to keep up with the complications and vagaries of the real world.

If you would like to continue this discussion in a legalistic fashion then I'm more than happy to oblige. I'm a professional bureaucrat and this sort of thing is my bread and butter. Would you like to propose a definition of God that we can use for this discussion?
The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchet

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #423 on: December 06, 2013, 01:19:43 PM »
Nam, if you watch that video I posted, you will not see me as crazy. The video is irrefutable.

The only thing "irrefutable" is your moronic self.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #424 on: December 06, 2013, 01:25:05 PM »
Now it's a misprint? The guy was as bald as a cue ball.

Funny how the arguments change to suit the the worldview.

You're the one trying to define 'bald' as a type of color.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #425 on: December 06, 2013, 01:53:05 PM »
Reality can only be defined by minds. With no minds around, you can't say what things are like. As soon as you posit something existing outside of your mind, you are using your mind to say that something exists outside of your mind, which is nonsensical.
It's a brick wall, unless you allow for the eternal mind that existed WAYYYY before anyone else did.
You got baked and watched the matrix trilogy again didn't you?
It seems Skeptics reality is somewhere between The Amityville Horror and The Matrix.
Perhaps someone should confiscate his DVD player or maybe we could suggest some more down to earth films to watch.
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Offline Wasserbuffel

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #426 on: December 06, 2013, 01:57:06 PM »
The DMV isn't making any claim that bald is a hair color. The form is standardized, and most people are smart enough to understand that there is no claim being made. It's inconvenient to the point of stupidity to devote separate space for the option of bald.

Name:
Height:
Weight:
Hair: ()Yes ()No
     Color[1]:
   
I don't work for the DMV, but another gov. agency that isn't dissimilar in the information we gather from permit seekers. We don't have an option in the computer for multicolored hair either. If you've died your hair into a rainbow, I'm just going to have to pick a color at random. If you've got salt and pepper[2] hair, I'm going to select gray. We also can't do exact heights. If you're 5'6.5", I'm going to have to round and list you as 5'7".  We're not making a statement that all peoples' heights are exact to the half inch, or that everyone only has one color of hair.

Your argument it invalid, and you're an idiot.
 1. If bald, leave blank. We don't want anyone to assume we're making a statement about bald being a hair color. Can't be too careful!
 2. People have put this on the application

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #427 on: December 06, 2013, 02:12:08 PM »
So it's nonsensical to try and posit what existed without any minds around![/b][/i][/u]

So it is nonsensical to poit what happens within the chamber of a piston on an internal combustion engine as no "mind" was within said engine. Ok, got it.

God's mind is.

you're failing to understand this.

And right back to circular reasoning and assuming your premise.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #428 on: December 06, 2013, 02:26:36 PM »
Concerning this "atheism is a religion" thing; what exactly is it suppose to accomplish?  Beside derailing the thread, I mean.

Even in the unlikely event that it's conceded that atheism is a religion, what would this change?  We would still demand evidence for the existence of a god.  No evidence will be forthcoming.  The theist will huff and fuss something about free will, and then the cycle starts all over again.  "Atheism as a religion" would not lessen the need for evidence.  It would not change the lack of evidence for god.  It would not make reality operate differently, and amputees would still not be healed.

It would not put theism and atheism "on equal grounds", as this line of thinking appears to suggest.  It would just slap on new label on things.  An ineffective and meaningless label.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #429 on: December 06, 2013, 02:41:20 PM »
Nam, if you watch that video I posted, you will not see me as crazy. The video is irrefutable.

Bad news, we are not cartoon characters. And you don't even have a perception of what the word "irrefutable" is. So you shouldn't try using it in a sentence.

Philosophy can be fun, but I suggest against taking it so seriously that you end up being wrong about everything. And if you are about to protest about my saying that you are wrong about everything, keep in mind I am also saying that you have no idea how to know even that much. You will just be guessing. Like you are about everything else. And guessing very poorly. You couldn't do it any worse.

How many people have you found in your life that agree with you? My guess would be zero, but that number may be a little high.

Edit: Crap, my english sure went downhill with this post. Its always been bad, but Skep is making it worse. The dude is pulling my mind down way too far. Fuck him and his attempt to have ideas.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 02:43:52 PM by ParkingPlaces »
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Willie

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #430 on: December 06, 2013, 04:28:24 PM »
I never said I believe life is a dream. I'm not a solipsist.

I said that since everything can only be known through minds, then there must be an "eternal mind" that existed long before human minds. For if there was no mind before human minds, then nothing can be known about the external world because you need a mind to describe it. Only an eternal mind gets you out of this problem.


Nothing can be known without minds! So it's nonsensical to try and posit what existed without any minds around!


Non-sequitur. Taking you at your word that you are not arguing solipsism, i.e., that you are talking only about the means by which an external reality can be known, and not about the means by which it can exist, then there is no logical connection between your premise and your conclusion. Without descending into solipsism, there is no reason why an external world could not exist before there were any minds to contemplate it, and without that, you're left with no reason why an "eternal mind" would have to exist.

Neither have you shown any reason (as opposed to mere assertion) why a mind contemplating an external reality at times prior to the time of its own existence is any more problematic than a mind contemplating external reality in real time. In either case, you have the same dependency on perception and interpretation, and the same vulnerability to imagination. We observe evidence and construct mental models, regardless of whether the events are present or past. And while we cannot rule out the possibility of having misperceived, misinterpreted, or simply imagined said evidence, that does not mean that we actually have. That something is possible does not, by itself, indicate that it is true, nor even that it is likely.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #431 on: December 06, 2013, 05:42:48 PM »
"Nothing exists without a mind to perceive it"--what does that even mean? What the hell is a disembodied mind?

There are all kinds of things that exist without human beings (or alien beings for that matter) knowing about them. Like the things that dogs can smell and hear, that humans can't. There are microbes that clearly existed because they made us sick for millennia-- before we saw them in the microscope and made the connection between germs and illness.

Species of all kinds lived and died millions of years before humans even appeared on the planet--were there no dinosaurs before we found the fossils? Was there no Australia before  the first aboriginal people showed up there? Do entire ecosystems poof into existence when "minds" show up and start to "perceive"?

I don't even want to get into this stupidity.  &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #432 on: December 06, 2013, 07:26:49 PM »
I would say having skeptic on ignore is easier but it isn't. He's like a cockroach. He won't die (figuratively).

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Jag

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #433 on: December 06, 2013, 07:52:26 PM »
^^^ I actually find it easier to read the threads with his posts closed off. I found that I could keep track of the conversation even if I skipped anything people quoted, just by reading the responses.

As a bonus, the persistent headache has finally gone away as I've stopped rolling my eyes over his posts.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Betelnut

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #434 on: December 06, 2013, 08:04:25 PM »
Do you really want to use the Governments judgement to support your argument? The DMV in particular?

So we can use the governments judgment on separation of church and state but not with hair colors?

Something smells fishy here.....

The "government" didn't create the notion of the separation of church and state. Individual citizens who wrote and ratified the constitution did that.