Author Topic: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?  (Read 20456 times)

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Offline median

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #319 on: December 05, 2013, 11:30:35 AM »

Illuminati does it, not the scientists. They just want Christianity destroyed.

Not everything in science is corrupted, but much of it is. Mainly big bang, abiogenesis, and evolution. Abiogenesis still has no empirical backing. It's based on the circular logic of, "Well we are here, so life must have formed on its own."

What a convenient coincidence that the three branches of science that you think are "corrupted" are the ones that as it just so happens , falsify your theology.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline median

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #320 on: December 05, 2013, 11:41:33 AM »

Actually, it is a mixture of both.

Christians started science. Since the Bible teaches that God created the laws of nature, the early Christian scientists wanted to examine the orderly universe that God created for us.

Science has been subject to a lot of perversion recently though. It is no longer dominated by honest Christians looking to understand God's universe. It's now godless and corrupted.

You are so ignorant it's comical. Christians did not 'start science'. Are you kidding? There were people doing science long before Christianity. You really need to stop your confirmation bias and look at things openly and honestly; that is, if you actually care whether or not your beliefs are true. But, obviously you don't. So here we are.

Does it make you feel good to be arrogant about your ignorance?



Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #321 on: December 05, 2013, 01:03:26 PM »
I hate to start posting on here by being confrontational, or by playing "pile on the theist", but I have a question that I think is important to this exchange:

What would you consider acceptable evidence for abiogenesis? Would a detailed description of the probable process be enough or would we have to reproduce it in a lab?

2ndly; Whatever your standards of evidence may be, can you provide evidence for creation by a deity that would meet those standards?

I would accept abiogenesis if it was videotaped without human intervention.

Creating life in a lab would only prove that it takes intelligence to create life. The only way to definitively prove it would be to videotape it happening on its own with no human intervention.

Can this be done? They claim it happened already, so I need to see it with my own 2 eyes.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online jdawg70

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #322 on: December 05, 2013, 01:06:17 PM »
Creating life in a lab would only prove that it takes intelligence to create life.
Does creating diamonds in a lab only prove that it takes intelligence to create diamonds?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #323 on: December 05, 2013, 01:07:40 PM »
Does creating diamonds in a lab only prove that it takes intelligence to create diamonds?

Yes. God made the process from the get-go. These silly claims like "snowflakes prove no designer" go nowhere because we Christians believe God made the intricacies of the snowflake.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #324 on: December 05, 2013, 01:09:13 PM »

Actually, it is a mixture of both.

Christians started science. Since the Bible teaches that God created the laws of nature, the early Christian scientists wanted to examine the orderly universe that God created for us.

Science has been subject to a lot of perversion recently though. It is no longer dominated by honest Christians looking to understand God's universe. It's now godless and corrupted.

You are so ignorant it's comical. Christians did not 'start science'. Are you kidding? There were people doing science long before Christianity. You really need to stop your confirmation bias and look at things openly and honestly; that is, if you actually care whether or not your beliefs are true. But, obviously you don't. So here we are.

Does it make you feel good to be arrogant about your ignorance?

They may have been doing science but they didn't get very far. They didn't have electricity or cars. This happened once Christianity became dominant because people expected an orderly world because the Bible says God created the laws of nature. (Jeremiah 33:25)
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online jdawg70

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #325 on: December 05, 2013, 01:15:04 PM »
Yes. God made the process from the get-go. These silly claims like "snowflakes prove no designer" go nowhere because we Christians believe God made the intricacies of the snowflake.
Who the hell says that "snowflakes prove no designer"?  They need to be smacked upside the head.  Snowflakes are evidence that intricate patterns can result from simple rules.  But you reject that because...you believe god is directly responsible for creating all snowflakes?  Or is it more of a "god made the rules that allow for the snowflake to be intricate"?

Is there such a thing as anything happening without intelligence involved?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #326 on: December 05, 2013, 01:17:28 PM »
Yes. God made the process from the get-go. These silly claims like "snowflakes prove no designer" go nowhere because we Christians believe God made the intricacies of the snowflake.
Who the hell says that "snowflakes prove no designer"?  They need to be smacked upside the head.  Snowflakes are evidence that intricate patterns can result from simple rules.  But you reject that because...you believe god is directly responsible for creating all snowflakes?  Or is it more of a "god made the rules that allow for the snowflake to be intricate"?

Is there such a thing as anything happening without intelligence involved?

No. This whole universe is intelligently run.

Think of computers. Sometimes they freeze and crash and you have to turn it off. Can you imagine if the universe was glitchy like that?

Thank God the universe runs like clockwork, never freezing, never crashing.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline RED_ApeTHEIST

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #327 on: December 05, 2013, 01:21:10 PM »

I would accept abiogenesis if it was videotaped without human intervention.

Creating life in a lab would only prove that it takes intelligence to create life. The only way to definitively prove it would be to videotape it happening on its own with no human intervention.

Can this be done? They claim it happened already, so I need to see it with my own 2 eyes.

Thank you for your response.  If that's the position that you take, then I can understand why you are skeptical of current ideas about abiogenesis.

Could you answer the 2nd of my questions as well?


2ndly; Whatever your standards of evidence may be, can you provide evidence for creation by a deity that would meet those standards?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 01:23:56 PM by RED_ApeTHEIST »
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Offline Wasserbuffel

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #328 on: December 05, 2013, 01:22:00 PM »

No. This whole universe is intelligently run.

Think of computers. Sometimes they freeze and crash and you have to turn it off. Can you imagine if the universe was glitchy like that?

Thank God the universe runs like clockwork, never freezing, never crashing.
Seriously. Tears in my eyes from the laughter. That's a very special worldview you've got going on there, Skep.

Offline wright

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #329 on: December 05, 2013, 01:23:36 PM »
skeptic, provide actual proof of these "Illuminati" of yours. If you could actually show they're more than a paranoid Christian persecution fantasy, then we'd have at least one reason to take your other claims seriously.

Well, not the one about demons. That'd still be laughable.

And welcome to the forum, Red APE.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #330 on: December 05, 2013, 01:28:02 PM »
Does creating diamonds in a lab only prove that it takes intelligence to create diamonds?

Yes. God made the process from the get-go. These silly claims like "snowflakes prove no designer" go nowhere because we Christians believe God made the intricacies of the snowflake.

Because "Magic Man Must have done it" is a very comfortable and easy to understand, unlike actually difficult to understand aspect of hexoganal crystal formation based on the arrangement of clusters of H2O molecules.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #331 on: December 05, 2013, 01:30:36 PM »
No. This whole universe is intelligently run.

Think of computers. Sometimes they freeze and crash and you have to turn it off. Can you imagine if the universe was glitchy like that?

Thank God the universe runs like clockwork, never freezing, never crashing.
Are you implying:
a) God, being perfect and without glitches, has an intelligence 'running' him?
b) God, not being intelligently run, has glitches?

If a, please explain the nature of the intelligence 'running' god.
If b, please reject any claims of god's 'perfection'.

If neither, then I think your only outs are:
c) A glitchless system does not imply intelligence behind it.
d) Everything that appears to function without 'glitches' necessarily implies an intelligence behind it, except god (special pleading)

Of course, we're using the word 'glitch' and I am rather uncertain what 'glitch' means in the context of the general operating principles of the universe.  Would a miracle be considered a 'glitch'?  If not, how do you discern between a 'glitch' and a 'miracle'?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #332 on: December 05, 2013, 01:37:30 PM »
We're still addressing the troll?

Someone ask it if a meteor striking the earth and killing off dinosaurs is a glitch. Ask it if all the failed attempts at planets are glitches.

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #333 on: December 05, 2013, 01:38:32 PM »

I would accept abiogenesis if it was videotaped without human intervention.


So you are only willing to accept something that has explanations of how it possibly could have happened without human intervention if it has been videotaped. Something that would have had to happen only once as we see that the product does have an inclination towards self replication and variance, such as the observed examples of speciation.

However, you ARE perfectly willing to accept a tale of magic, deities, and monsters because it is in a book.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #334 on: December 05, 2013, 01:43:02 PM »
No. This whole universe is intelligently run.

Think of computers. Sometimes they freeze and crash and you have to turn it off. Can you imagine if the universe was glitchy like that?

Thank God the universe runs like clockwork, never freezing, never crashing.
Are you implying:
a) God, being perfect and without glitches, has an intelligence 'running' him?
b) God, not being intelligently run, has glitches?

If a, please explain the nature of the intelligence 'running' god.
If b, please reject any claims of god's 'perfection'.

If neither, then I think your only outs are:
c) A glitchless system does not imply intelligence behind it.
d) Everything that appears to function without 'glitches' necessarily implies an intelligence behind it, except god (special pleading)

Of course, we're using the word 'glitch' and I am rather uncertain what 'glitch' means in the context of the general operating principles of the universe.  Would a miracle be considered a 'glitch'?  If not, how do you discern between a 'glitch' and a 'miracle'?

Wouldn't supernovas, nebulas, failed planets, planetary body collisions, and black holes be examples of the universe not running like a perfect clockwork, but rather an indication of a chaotic system with laws?

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #335 on: December 05, 2013, 01:45:32 PM »
So you are only willing to accept something that has explanations of how it possibly could have happened without human intervention if it has been videotaped. Something that would have had to happen only once as we see that the product does have an inclination towards self replication and variance, such as the observed examples of speciation.

However, you ARE perfectly willing to accept a tale of magic, deities, and monsters because it is in a book.
It's actually worse than that.

On the one hand, he's explicitly saying that he would accept abiogenesis (which, I think, he agrees means the spontaneous emergence of self-replicating entities without intelligent intervention), and on the other hand, he's explicitly rejecting that there is any phenomenon that can be attributed to a non-intelligent cause.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #336 on: December 05, 2013, 01:49:39 PM »
Wouldn't supernovas, nebulas, failed planets, planetary body collisions, and black holes be examples of the universe not running like a perfect clockwork, but rather an indication of a chaotic system with laws?
I don't know.  Frankly, we've now bumped into the problem of evaluating the merits of the totality of reality.  I have no idea how to do that.  There needs to be some standard to compare against if we are to make some evaluation of something "working perfectly" or "not working perfectly".  What is reality's function?  If we don't know what that is, and (for unclear reasons) assume that there must be a function, in what way can we discern if it "works perfectly" or not?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #337 on: December 05, 2013, 01:53:11 PM »
Wouldn't supernovas, nebulas, failed planets, planetary body collisions, and black holes be examples of the universe not running like a perfect clockwork, but rather an indication of a chaotic system with laws?
I don't know.  Frankly, we've now bumped into the problem of evaluating the merits of the totality of reality.  I have no idea how to do that.  There needs to be some standard to compare against if we are to make some evaluation of something "working perfectly" or "not working perfectly".  What is reality's function?  If we don't know what that is, and (for unclear reasons) assume that there must be a function, in what way can we discern if it "works perfectly" or not?

Which brings us back to the basic issue of assertion and Occam's razor.

In order to assert the universe was intelligently designed(the postive assertion) you have to show us an example of a universe without the attribute of that positive assertion.

However Creationists are too deluded or stupid to understand that.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #338 on: December 05, 2013, 01:55:30 PM »
Welcome to the forum RED_ApeTHEIST (is that a hellboy reference?)
Good questions for Skeptic.


Science has been subject to a lot of perversion recently though. It is no longer dominated by honest Christians looking to understand God's universe. It's now godless and corrupted.
I suspect you only think this as science moves further and further away from the "god did it" conclusions you want to see.



It's funny he says that since most credible science done by Christians in the past have been done by Catholics; and to him: they are demon-lead. See, when it favors his point-of-view (like most protestant Christians) then they too are Christian, when it doesn't, they're not.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #339 on: December 05, 2013, 02:01:25 PM »
I actually thought about questioning that "honest christian" remark.The boundaries for being a christian in his eyes are certainly changeable. I am beginning to suspect what has been mentioned before, that Skeptic is actually more than one person.
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #340 on: December 05, 2013, 02:04:39 PM »
I actually thought about questioning that "honest christian" remark.The boundaries for being a christian in his eyes are certainly changeable. I am beginning to suspect what has been mentioned before, that Skeptic is actually more than one person.

Doesn't matter: they're all idiots, if so, and if not.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #341 on: December 05, 2013, 02:12:30 PM »
Doesn't matter: they're all idiots, if so, and if not.

-Nam

Certainly no getting through to him/them
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Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #342 on: December 05, 2013, 02:16:52 PM »
Unless it's in here he does not want to know-
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #343 on: December 05, 2013, 02:22:10 PM »
Unless it's in here he does not want to know-


And even then, that's not enough because t/he[y] obviously have never read it.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #344 on: December 05, 2013, 03:23:00 PM »
Folks, there is no way to argue with someone who thinks that all of his conclusions are facts. Nothing we say can get him to think even a little tiny bit. If an actual idea bit him in the ass, he'd just scratch it absentmindedly.

He can spell science, but that's all he knows about it. He reads the bible like its porn, looking only for the good parts (of course he doesn't actually know where to look for the sex stuff in it. That would be a sin.), and he presumes a personal superiority in all matters. Which he finds quite easy to do because he doesn't know jack shit and doesn't know he doesn't know jack shit.

That's the worst kind of theist.

The only way I could have a lower opinion of his mental capabilities was if he were also a republican congressman. Which I don't think is impossible.

Our conversations are so one sided with him that it is like he isn't even there. I suggest that we act accordingly.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #345 on: December 05, 2013, 03:26:58 PM »
I actually thought about questioning that "honest christian" remark.The boundaries for being a christian in his eyes are certainly changeable. I am beginning to suspect what has been mentioned before, that Skeptic is actually more than one person.

Changeable so that he is not held accountable for any statement made, enough slime to keep that cognitive dissonance well greased from actual conclusions he doesn't want to hear.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #346 on: December 05, 2013, 03:49:12 PM »
A skeptic contradiction quickie:

He says any scientific advances done by non-Christians or before Christianity don't count as real deal science. So the astronomical, mathematical and architectural genius of the Mayans don't count. Incas had food science that allowed them to freeze-dry staples like potatoes when food preservation in Europe meant "just add more salt". The study of optics, the incredible documentation of human anatomy, the mapping techniques and the amazing irrigation systems of the Arabs and Muslims don't count.[1]

It is only once European Christians (mainly Catholics of course) got involved, science really took off and that's the only reason we have antibiotics and computers and cars and hearing aids and houses full of plastic sh!t. The fact that monks and priests were the only literate people in Europe and controlled access to new knowledge might have had a tad bit to do with Christian domination of scientific advances in the Middle Ages for a while.

Okay. But all those modern advances are coming along even faster at the same time as any Christian religious influence in science has almost completely disappeared. Cars, computers, antibiotics, airplanes, vaccinations and on and on are all from the 19-20th century. Islam is growing faster then Christianity.  No Christian institutions are at the forefront of inventions or medical advances nowadays. Today, technological innovations and new discoveries are coming from Japan, India and China. Are universities around the world full of clever demons in lab coats, inventing cool stuff just to trick people away from religion? You would think that the one true god would not let that happen....
 1. I guess he doesn't realize that without the number system from India and algebra from the Arab world, it would be impossible to do the kind of math that modern science is based on. Try writing decimal fractions with Christian Roman numerals.... &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #347 on: December 05, 2013, 03:58:45 PM »
Are universities around the world full of clever demons in lab coats, inventing cool stuff just to trick people away from religion?
I think you have given him the perfect response to your post!
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead