Author Topic: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?  (Read 18988 times)

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #203 on: November 20, 2013, 09:29:51 AM »
See, the thing is that it doesn't matter what we think one bit. God makes the rules and we just have to suck it up and deal with it with our heads held high.
Might makes right.
Complacency in the face of suffering and tragedy.

You can hold your head up high with that, but you should be hanging it down in shame.
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Arguing about it saying, "Sounds too cruel to be real!" will get you nowhere in the grand scheme of things.
I'm not sure that's what is being argued here.  I think it's more of a "Sounds too cruel!  Can't be all-loving!" kind of thing going on.
Quote
Nobody ever said the truth had to be pretty.
So why all the bulls**t about 'god being love' and all that jazz?  Just be out with the honest truth:
"God is a cruel, evil dictator that demands my worship and your worship too.  He will unleash ultimate suffering upon you lest you bow to his whims.  Petty human, do not question the might of the evil overlord.  Just shut up and do what you're told."

And you have the audacity to accuse others[1] of worshiping a demon?
 1. every Not True Christian that you have thusfar named in your time here
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Truth OT

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #204 on: November 20, 2013, 10:32:35 AM »
Look at this great statement, on a PoE site

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Seventh-Day%20Adventist/sneaky.htm

This guy, lambasting SDAs for believing all sorts of Satanic shit (inc. no literal hell). He accuses them of believing that Jesus is the angel Micheal, and then says that many don't know they believe that, because: "Many of them are ignorant and don't know what they believe, which is often the case I have found."

This is almost comical to me.

To be honest, in my opinion the SDAs and JWs ideal of an afterlife is actually far more scripturally consistant than the Christian masses. I have yet to see ANY scriptural text that says man has an undying immortal soul that could be be tortured for all eternity.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #205 on: November 20, 2013, 11:23:58 AM »
No, you didn't ever have sex with your Mum. At least, I bloody hope not. Because that would be just completely wrong and disgusting. Maybe you could even call it immoral.  It doesn't matter. The point is, your Dad did have sex with your Mum. That, however, does not mean you consider your Dad to be wrong, disgusting and immoral.

Neither does the fact I consider it would be immoral for me to burn my children mean I am calling God immoral for choosing to do so. Your logic fails on this point.

Seriously dude? You are comparing the act of consenting sex to a torturous fiery unending punishment! That's utterly ridiculous! You'd have done better to say that you raped your mom and your dad subsequently did the same thing years ago. That would be a more fitting comparison. And it could easily be stated that BOTH you and your dad were immoral, wrong, and disgusting because you BOTH engaged in the SAME immoral activity.

Note that I am not attempting to make any point here whatsoever other than your logic was flawed in saying that I admit/consdier God to be immoral because He may do something I wouldn't do.

....................... It simply does not logically follow that it would be wrong for God to do so. I could list many examples to demonstrate that an action is wrong by one person but not by another.

........................The actual morality of burning kids is irrelevant to the faulty logic of "X cannot do Y,  therefore Y cannot do Y"

You seem to be glossing over the point that if activity "Y" is immoral, neither Person A or Person B can engage in it and not be considered as immoral. I submit that purposely burning kids, with malace forethought (or without this premeditation) is ALWAYS immoral. Raping a woman, no matter who does it is ALWAYS immoral. How is it that you can claim that a party can do any of these immoral acts and not be immoral in doing so?

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #206 on: November 20, 2013, 11:30:28 AM »
Christians can't do that, median. Only God can because he is the Creator and Supreme King.


So might makes right. Wow, that's pretty much the philosophy of evil

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #207 on: November 20, 2013, 11:35:28 AM »

"My house, my rules. If you don't like it, then leave."
Is the parent evil and wrong?
Would you prefer the parent spoil the children and let them do anything they want?


Hrrm no I would expect a good parent to actually talk to the child and use corrective punishment, not leave garbled instructions through a baby sitter who has been occasionally known to lie,never see the child and then show up at the end of a few years and take the child to basement and set them on fire forever.

What you are doing is a false dichotomy.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #208 on: November 20, 2013, 11:39:05 AM »



If I do my job as a parent well, I will not every have to "make her work."  I hope to inspire her to work.  As my parents inspired me.  To contribute to society. To create something.  To discover something.  To make a difference.  I want her to make a good living.  And I hope that she will never be greedy.  That she will never feel entitled.  That she will understand that none of us live in a silo, and that everything we do impacts on the world around us.  That she will take pride in her accomplishments, and that she will treat everyone around her with respect.   

 

I'm sure the vast majority of parents want that. And usually they can achieve that, as parents. However, somethimes the best parents can have children that for whattever reason simply refuse to listen or learn, and insist on being selfish.

You didn't really address Skeptic's question, did you? You essentially dismissed the perfectly legitimate scenario he raised and chose to instead discuss your own experiences and hopes. Whilst commendable, they are not relevant to the question.

How would you react, as a parent, to a child that insisted on playing no useful part in society and was determined to live in comfort through your efforts only? Would you allow it? Or would there be an ultimatum of sorts, at some point?
Sure there would. However, if I failed to ever even show up until that point, and never to have done some corrective partial measures, I would be a shitty parent and the child's bad behavior was really my fault.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #209 on: November 20, 2013, 11:42:35 AM »
To use this passage as some sort of argument that modern day parents should stone their disobedient children is intellectually retarded in the biggest way.

That's the point, that's what the post was about, to point out how ridiculous the bible is. Actually read it, cover to cover, especially the Old Testament, it's packed full of stuff like that. One of the primary reasons I don't take it seriously, I only own a bible because my mother bought me one when I was 8 and still going to church.[1]

EDIT:
The bible endorses: includes various instances of
1) Slavery
2) Rape
3) Murder
4) Genocide
5) Incest
6) Patricide
7) Matricide
8 ) Infanticide
etc
The list goes on, and that's JUST the Old Testament.
 1. no I wasn't religious then

I have edited your quote to make it more accurate.

WRONG!!!!!!!! If 'The Lord' orders most of these things(which happen numerous time throughout the Old Testament); by defintion it endorces it. If it gives explict instruction of how to properly treat a slave other than "let them go" it endorces slavery.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #210 on: November 20, 2013, 12:01:06 PM »

"My house, my rules. If you don't like it, then leave."
Is the parent evil and wrong?
Would you prefer the parent spoil the children and let them do anything they want?


But what if the "children" cannot leave and are trapped in the house and told to properly obey the some rules that aren't exactly clear or else they will be tossed into the basement and forever subjected to a fire that cannot be quenched?

You are trying to compare a parental home to a prison! It doesn't work Skep, it doesn't work.

Offline median

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #211 on: November 20, 2013, 12:31:35 PM »
Is God the standard of morality according to your theology? Is God (or God's 'nature') the standard of what is moral and/or immoral?

Yes

If so, then you have a direct contradiction.

No I don't.


You are hypocritically trying to apply two different standards of morality (one for yourself and one for God)

No I'm not. I believe it would be wrong for me to burn my children. It simply does not logically follow that it would be wrong for God to do so. I could list many examples to demonstrate that an action is wrong by one person but not by another.

Everything else you posted is superfluous to the point I am making, kind of disappointing too given I took the trouble to stress that I sought only to address a specific piece of logic. The actual morality of burning kids is irrelevant to the faulty logic of "X cannot do Y,  therefore Y cannot do Y"

Actually, you have (once again - as is so often the case) misrepresented my argument (straw man fallacy). I did not say, "X cannot do Y, therefore Y cannot do Y" and you are bearing false witness by misquoting me this way (btw). What I stated was that if God is the standard of morality, and you are to follow this 'standard', then God acts immorally by breaking his own nature/rules (which are supposedly "the standard"). Can God be the standard of morality and not be the standard of morality at the same time?

MY ARGUMENT:

P1 - If God's nature is the standard of morality, then anyone at all who breaks his rules (which are in accordance with his nature) has acted immorally
P2 - So too, anyone who follows God's rules is moral
P3 - God has broken his own stated rules (which are supposedly in accordance with is 'nature')
C - Therefore, God has acted immorally

By your own admission God is the standard of what is moral. Yet at the same time, you think God can perform actions which are immoral and still have them be moral? When I pointed out you have a direct contradiction (and all you said was "No I don't.") you didn't somehow magically resolve the contradiction by denying it. You have presented a God who violates his own rules (i.e. - violates "objective" morality) yet somehow tells you to be like him (i.e. - be Christlike/Godlike etc) by following his alleged example. That is a direct conflict.

Can you think of ANY scenario, whatsoever, for any person (at all anywhere) by which it would be justified to torture children with fire? How about to own other human beings as property? Is there ANY circumstance whatsoever where owning another human being as property, and beating them severely to near death, is moral? The bible very clearly states that this thing 'God' cannot lie (Hebrews 6), that he cannot deny himself (2 Timothy 2), and that he cannot be tempted by evil or tempt anyone with evil (James 1). Do you think that God (who is supposedly 'holy') can commit sins??

If you think that morality, as you define it, is such that specific actions can be deemed 'moral' when performed by a God yet 'immoral' when performed by human beings then God, and its alleged 'nature', necessarily cannot be the standard of what is moral. If, for example, torturing your children in the basement with fire is not morally wrong for the reason that it is against God's nature to do so then the standard of morality is not found in God's nature.

This renders the Christian response to the Euthyphro Dilemma completely falsified.

THE DILEMMA:

Is something moral because God commands it, or does God command it because it is moral?

No longer can you attempt to use the "it's Gods nature" argument (as shown above). So which is it? Divine Command Theory (where God is a big dictator mafia-boss who can violate his own rules and cause tons of suffering, or change the rules anytime), or a morality that exists outside of this 'God' things 'nature' (whereby then God itself is subject to that morality)? You can't have it both ways and still be rational.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 01:54:21 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #212 on: November 20, 2013, 01:32:56 PM »
I will point out the hole in that this crappy reasoning that I've seen time and time again.

Corrective punishment is useless if it is unseen and a person cannot learn from it. If punishment is unseen, thereby not showing others, nor can a person learn from it(that is come back to life in the case of Hell) then it is uselessly cruel and sadistic. It is the equivalent to said father taking the child(that has some sort of miraculous regenerative ability) into the basement and locking it into the furnace burning it ....forever.

I saw my father, when he punished me, it was so I could learn I did wrong; he didn't leave garbled instructions through a baby sitter that said things I couldn't believe in, then set me on fire for not following them
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 01:44:31 PM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #213 on: November 20, 2013, 03:29:22 PM »
See, the thing is that it doesn't matter what we think one bit. God makes the rules and we just have to suck it up and deal with it with our heads held high.

So you say -- But I sincerely believe that a genuine god wouldn't make up stupid rules in the first place.

From what I can see, Skeptic, you and other True Believers™ have been had.  Your precious and unique lives have become spastic, badly-painted puppets in the beefy hands of primitive men who wanted power over their neighbours -- And wanted it so badly that they thought nothing of terrifying even young children with tales of a mythical Hell.

Quote
Arguing about it saying, "Sounds too cruel to be real!" will get you nowhere in the grand scheme of things.

It's actually gotten Me quite far -- In fact, I'm accelerating away from Christianity at warp factor 9.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #214 on: November 20, 2013, 04:28:06 PM »
The religious perspective here is: Morality comes from god; he and only he determines what is good and what is bad. There is no way of establishing good or bad outside of god. If god does or commands that something be done, it must by definition be good.   If a human does what god commands, it must also be good, even if other humans judge the action as bad.

Of course this right here is full of fail, because people of every and no religion do things that are accepted by other religions as good. It must be that religion does not matter to morality because god appears to speak to people regardless of religion. Religious people try to get around this by saying the human conscience is god's voice; good and bad are written on our hearts; etc.

However, the "written on our hearts" stuff has no evidence-- in fact, god's voice is rather fuzzy around the edges. Some people in every society--psychopaths and sociopaths-- seem to not have the writing on their hearts. They break the rules of their own society, and do not feel bad about it either, apparently due to a glitch in their brains. And what is written on our hearts seems to change, too, over time. Whereas being waited on hand and foot by a chattel slave raised hardly a hackle in polite US society of 1722, it was legally forbidden by 1892 and completely hidden from public view today. What does it say on our hearts about slavery today that was not there in 1722?

What exactly is wrong also varies by culture. Incest is universally wrong, but what constitutes incest varies from one culture to another. Do first cousins count or not? We won't even get into the bible stories full of seemingly not forbidden sibling incest and parent-child incest. And royal people of many cultures marry relatives with the approval of their society. Can't have royal blood mixed with common blood, now can we?

So it does not seem to hold that there is a universal but secret morality invented by god waiting, floating out there for people to figure out.[1]What is far more likely is: no god, no secret universal morality. People have made up their own morality out of what makes cultural sense for group survival. That is why morality varies so much over time and space, but has a lot of cultural overlap on the basics.

The idea that morality was developed as humans evolved actually has some evidence. Code of Hammurabi, Golden Rule, etc. predate Christianity. Every society from the Chinese to the Aztec to the Kingdom of Mali to the Aboriginals of Australia to the Inuit of the frozen north has developed moral codes, and there is a big overlap among all of them as to what kind of behavior is good or bad.

Don't kill friends and relatives, don't take what is not yours, don't have sex with your mama or daddy. Societies that require you to kill your friends and family, to steal from others and to sex up your parents don't tend to stick around very long. Again, religion is irrelevant to morality except as a way for some cultures to try to give weight to their social rules.

 

 
 1. Unless god is really incompetent...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 05:51:31 PM by nogodsforme »
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #215 on: November 20, 2013, 04:55:57 PM »
Note to all: I've gotten carried away with posting on the forums (not for the first time) and as a result I have slipped in my output at work. I therefore need to concentrate on that fully for some time and get back on top of it. I will be absent from the forum for at least a couple of weeks.

Please don't see this as an attempt to back away from debate...trust me, I really want to pursue this and other topics. But I can't risk my job over it.

Until then.
Go on up you baldhead.

Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #216 on: November 20, 2013, 05:24:42 PM »
MM you can't answer the questions put forth, or return an even average rebuttal . I am sure you still think you are winning this debate.
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Offline median

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #217 on: November 20, 2013, 05:48:26 PM »
MM you can't answer the questions put forth, or return an even average rebuttal . I am sure you still think you are winning this debate.

In either one of the scenarios I put forth above, Christians are still falling on their own sword. They cannot use the argument that "God's nature is the standard of morality" b/c it is clearly within that 'God's nature' to violate its own rules (aka - violate it's own nature). So then the Christian is left with having to choose between only two possibilities (either A) God is a hypocritical dictator, or B) morality exists independently of 'God'). If the Christian chooses option A, then God is nothing more than a monstrous hypocritical thug, who can violate his own rules and change what is 'moral' at anytime (at which case there really is no 'objective' morality because it can change). If the Christian chooses option B, then God is not the standard of morality (and therefore there is something which is in fact greater than God - at which case we need not listen to its commands; i.e. - we can discover morality on our own, independently of God, and God is subject to those rules as well as us).

So as it turns out, this concept that "God is the standard of objective morality" is completely bankrupt: DECLINED FOR INSUFFICIENT FUNDS! Christian morality: FALSIFIED.  This 'God' thing is not the standard of morality and that is why Christians have to jump through every irrational 'hoop and bound' to get around this obvious fact, and the terrible dilemma that their "faith" puts them in. Christianity is inherently immoral. It makes claims to 'objective' morality but cannot backup those claims b/c the foundation upon which those claims rest is not fixed, but constantly changing (i.e. - an alleged 'divine' thing that doesn't have to follow it's own nature).
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 05:53:00 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #218 on: November 20, 2013, 11:34:39 PM »
The aboriginal indigenous cultures around the world prove without a shadow of a doubt you do not need BibleGod to live a highly evolved non violent "moral" society. Did they have gods and rituals,of course,were some of these rituals barbaric,yes,was there war,sometimes. The way these society's did not mirror Christianity was the massive scale of slaughter carried out in a gods name or by a gods command.

 The excuse that these were not "true Christians" won't hold either. The culture of Christianity changes as the world becomes less accepting of the movements actions becomes more civilized. From the time they killed for their God,to the slave trade,to emancipation,the civil rights movement and the treatment of women,Christianity evolved to stay socially relevant.

 There was a time for Christians when ALL actions against "others" at one point in time or another was acceptable and normal,until the time when they were told by society to cease the barbaric actions.Christians did not stop until society as a whole stopped them.  For the most part the modern day church of Christianity cringes at the actions of its own past. Today we have Christian's like Magic miles,who have forgotten the actions of the past and are confused as to why we are so cruel and apathetic towards them
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 11:38:55 PM by 12 Monkeys »
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #219 on: November 21, 2013, 12:14:04 AM »
MM you can't answer the questions put forth, or return an even average rebuttal . I am sure you still think you are winning this debate.

Don't treat him like that.

if the man said he has to work, he has to work. What's so hard to believe about that?

I myself actually question if some atheists on this website even have jobs at all.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Antidote

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #220 on: November 21, 2013, 12:16:03 AM »
MM you can't answer the questions put forth, or return an even average rebuttal . I am sure you still think you are winning this debate.

Don't treat him like that.

if the man said he has to work, he has to work. What's so hard to believe about that?

I myself actually question if some atheists on this website even have jobs at all.

You ask someone not to be a douche, then you act like a douche, good job skep.
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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #221 on: November 21, 2013, 12:47:09 AM »
I myself actually question if some atheists on this website even have jobs at all.
Judgmental little dude aren't you? I myself actually question if you just had a nasty romantic breakup and suddenly have a lot of free time and injured pride to deal with.

Do you really want to play that game? I can do this all day and I promise you: I'm better at it than you are.

I happen to be one of those atheists who doesn't have a job, but the two facts have nothing to do with each other - I'm a full time college student living off my savings. Free time to be here arguing with and making fun of theists is just a bonus, and a side effect of the many hours I spend on my computer on any given day.
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #222 on: November 21, 2013, 01:27:04 AM »
MM you can't answer the questions put forth, or return an even average rebuttal . I am sure you still think you are winning this debate.

Don't treat him like that.

if the man said he has to work, he has to work. What's so hard to believe about that?

I myself actually question if some atheists on this website even have jobs at all.

I work 100 hours a week, at home, and get paid $0.00. I worked 80-100 hrs a week from 17 years old to 32 years old averaging about $60,000 a year[1], I've been on the internet since the late 1980's[2], and on the world wide web since 2001. From 2001-2008, I worked at about 8 places plus published 5 books[3][4]. I have done volunteer editing, reviews, research, and written anonymous literary biographies for many online literary websites[5], and I donate 15% of what I earn, per year[6] to two charities; one dealing with literacy, and the other homelessness.

I've spent more hours at http://allpoetry.com than any other website online. I have over 31,000 comments on that website with at least 90%+ of them being critiques. I have also been a moderator there, a teacher, and a researcher--all volunteering, and once wrote a guideline on how to respectfully treat new members of the website, which was implemented for the greeting staff[7] some years ago. I am highly respected there by many people, even those who dislike me with a passion. At one point: I had over 30 separate accounts there[8] that I wrote, and critiqued regularly under simultaneously. Many people there still, to this day, have fond memories of some of them.

I have a pretty busy life. And it's been busy for a very long time. You think I spend a lot of time here? Compared, collectively, to other places on/offline--not even close.

How about you get a life rather than you telling us to.

There's a thought.

-Nam
 1. note I said "averaging"; which means some of those years I got considerably less, and almost nothing
 2. you read that right
 3. one actually selling better than the other four combined
 4. I don't necessarily advertise my work, it's something you either find, or are pointed toward by other readers
 5. of varying literary fields
 6. minus these last 4-5 years but still donate what little I do get when I can
 7. I shit you not--whether they still use it, I don't know.
 8. which was allowed confined to the rules
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #223 on: November 21, 2013, 01:31:33 AM »
Might makes right.
Complacency in the face of suffering and tragedy.

No. It is understanding that we should fear God for our actions.

The same way a child may shake in terror when he got an F on his test waiting for his dad to get home. If the child was laughing and in an upbeat mood waiting for the father to come home, I would question the father's parenting skills.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #224 on: November 21, 2013, 01:37:18 AM »
MM you can't answer the questions put forth, or return an even average rebuttal . I am sure you still think you are winning this debate.

Don't treat him like that.

if the man said he has to work, he has to work. What's so hard to believe about that?

I myself actually question if some atheists on this website even have jobs at all.

I work 100 hours a week, at home, and get paid $0.00. I worked 80-100 hrs a week from 17 years old to 32 years old averaging about $60,000 a year[1], I've been on the internet since the late 1980's[2], and on the world wide web since 2001. From 2001-2008, I worked at about 8 places plus published 5 books[3][4]. I have done volunteer editing, reviews, research, and written anonymous literary biographies for many online literary websites[5], and I donate 15% of what I earn, per year[6] to two charities; one dealing with literacy, and the other homelessness.

I've spent more hours at http://allpoetry.com than any other website online. I have over 31,000 comments on that website with at least 90%+ of them being critiques. I have also been a moderator there, a teacher, and a researcher--all volunteering, and once wrote a guideline on how to respectfully treat new members of the website, which was implemented for the greeting staff[7] some years ago. I am highly respected there by many people, even those who dislike me with a passion. At one point: I had over 30 separate accounts there[8] that I wrote, and critiqued regularly under simultaneously. Many people there still, to this day, have fond memories of some of them.

I have a pretty busy life. And it's been busy for a very long time. You think I spend a lot of time here? Compared, collectively, to other places on/offline--not even close.

How about you get a life rather than you telling us to.

There's a thought.

-Nam
 1. note I said "averaging"; which means some of those years I got considerably less, and almost nothing
 2. you read that right
 3. one actually selling better than the other four combined
 4. I don't necessarily advertise my work, it's something you either find, or are pointed toward by other readers
 5. of varying literary fields
 6. minus these last 4-5 years but still donate what little I do get when I can
 7. I shit you not--whether they still use it, I don't know.
 8. which was allowed confined to the rules

That is interesting to hear, Nam. Sounds like you are a busy lad.

But in statistics, there are things known as outliers. You are probably an outlier.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Nam

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #225 on: November 21, 2013, 01:38:21 AM »
MM you can't answer the questions put forth, or return an even average rebuttal . I am sure you still think you are winning this debate.

Don't treat him like that.

if the man said he has to work, he has to work. What's so hard to believe about that?

I myself actually question if some atheists on this website even have jobs at all.

I work 100 hours a week, at home, and get paid $0.00. I worked 80-100 hrs a week from 17 years old to 32 years old averaging about $60,000 a year[1], I've been on the internet since the late 1980's[2], and on the world wide web since 2001. From 2001-2008, I worked at about 8 places plus published 5 books[3][4]. I have done volunteer editing, reviews, research, and written anonymous literary biographies for many online literary websites[5], and I donate 15% of what I earn, per year[6] to two charities; one dealing with literacy, and the other homelessness.

I've spent more hours at http://allpoetry.com than any other website online. I have over 31,000 comments on that website with at least 90%+ of them being critiques. I have also been a moderator there, a teacher, and a researcher--all volunteering, and once wrote a guideline on how to respectfully treat new members of the website, which was implemented for the greeting staff[7] some years ago. I am highly respected there by many people, even those who dislike me with a passion. At one point: I had over 30 separate accounts there[8] that I wrote, and critiqued regularly under simultaneously. Many people there still, to this day, have fond memories of some of them.

I have a pretty busy life. And it's been busy for a very long time. You think I spend a lot of time here? Compared, collectively, to other places on/offline--not even close.

How about you get a life rather than you telling us to.

There's a thought.

-Nam
 1. note I said "averaging"; which means some of those years I got considerably less, and almost nothing
 2. you read that right
 3. one actually selling better than the other four combined
 4. I don't necessarily advertise my work, it's something you either find, or are pointed toward by other readers
 5. of varying literary fields
 6. minus these last 4-5 years but still donate what little I do get when I can
 7. I shit you not--whether they still use it, I don't know.
 8. which was allowed confined to the rules

That is interesting to hear, Nam. Sounds like you are a busy lad.

But in statistics, there are things known as outliers. You are probably an outlier.

And you're probably an idiot. No, wait...

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #226 on: November 21, 2013, 01:44:47 AM »
And you're probably an idiot. No, wait...

-Nam

You are quite the Jekyll & Hyde.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #227 on: November 21, 2013, 01:48:24 AM »
And you're probably an idiot. No, wait...

-Nam

You are quite the Jekyll & Hyde.

Jykell & Hyde are pussies compared to me.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #228 on: November 21, 2013, 01:48:46 AM »
And you're probably an idiot. No, wait...

-Nam

You are quite the Jekyll & Hyde.
And you're quite the Hyde, but throwing around insults accomplishes nothing.
Have you run out of arguments?
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

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Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #229 on: November 21, 2013, 01:52:21 AM »
And you're quite the Hyde, but throwing around insults accomplishes nothing.
Have you run out of arguments?

i didn't run out of anything. It's just that we are at a standstill.

I have explained that certain rules apply to some people but not others. The manager at a job does not follow the same rules as the employees.

Me and other Christians accept that, atheists don't. So, standstill.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #230 on: November 21, 2013, 01:54:11 AM »
And you're quite the Hyde, but throwing around insults accomplishes nothing.
Have you run out of arguments?

i didn't run out of anything. It's just that we are at a standstill.

I have explained that certain rules apply to some people but not others. The manager at a job does not follow the same rules as the employees.

Me and other Christians accept that, atheists don't. So, standstill.

Wait, what the hell does that have to do with parents and children?
You just moved the goal post AGAIN.

Also if the same rules don't apply equally, you don't have morality, you have a train wreck.
Rules need to apply equally. Just look at corporations, it's a prime example of WHY rules need to apply equally, it's so corrupt and it's taking down our governments with it.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 01:56:11 AM by Antidote »
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

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Re: Would You Ever Torture Your Children With Fire In in the Basement?
« Reply #231 on: November 21, 2013, 01:57:06 AM »
And you're quite the Hyde, but throwing around insults accomplishes nothing.
Have you run out of arguments?

i didn't run out of anything. It's just that we are at a standstill.

I have explained that certain rules apply to some people but not others. The manager at a job does not follow the same rules as the employees.

Me and other Christians accept that, atheists don't. So, standstill.
Excellent! Does that mean you'll get back on topic now?
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."