Author Topic: Noah  (Read 2053 times)

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Offline MadBunny

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Re: Noah
« Reply #87 on: November 22, 2013, 07:11:59 PM »
Something like this

[1] [2]
 1.  But not a hoax.
 2. Also, the flaming sword.  Seriously, flaming swords guys.  Get with it.
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Noah
« Reply #88 on: November 22, 2013, 09:00:47 PM »
I was waiting for the old "dinosaur eggs were on the ark, not full dinos" argument... (kept in a mini frig away from the iguanas, kimono dragons and Noah's omelettes)

And the "only baby animals were on the ark, so they could all fit" story just begs the question: who raised the babies to adulthood and taught them to hunt, feed, fly, swim, whatever? We have a hard time with that today, even with lots of studies, when we save  baby animals and then try to train them to return to the wild. They either die or remain with their human "parents" forever. So, Noah taught baby polar bears to catch fish in the Arctic and baby penguins (male) to sit on the eggs while the females hunted in the Antarctic. Right.

The concept of two or even seven of a species being enough to repopulate is absurd. Lots of animals are social and need several families, plus a habitat, to function. We had some twit here who said Noah took bees on board the ark. He only needed a hive or two-- uhh, that would be thousands of bees, not two or seven. And where, pray tell, did all the plant pollen come from to feed the bees? Did Noah also bring a few orchards of flowering trees on board, too?

Most birds, insects, reptiles, and even mammals need way more than a handful for disease resistance, mating diversity, etc. That is why, when we get down to only a few hundred condors or mountain gorillas, we consider them endangered, and on the verge of extinction. If we have only seven African elephants, and they are all in different zoos, they are functionally extinct, because they will not get together and mate create a new herd. When you get down to only seven, and remove them all from their habitat, that species is functionally extinct.

Why do you guys discuss the story as if there is no God?

If you add God into the mix, all these questions are silly.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Noah
« Reply #89 on: November 22, 2013, 09:02:46 PM »
It's quite likely that this type of dinosaur didn't exist until after the flood when animals were being spread all over the globe and micro-evolving into various species.

Any particular reason that the dinosaurs the paleontologists say are very old are always, as in every frickin' time, buried deeper in the rocks than the newer ones, such as the one you commented on. If they all coexisted, why aren't they all jumbled up. And why, pray tell (I'm trying to speak your language) are there never any human bones mixed in with the dinosaur ones if we were all here at the same time?

You realize, of course, all a fundy would have to do is go out and find human fossilized remains mixed in with dinosaur fossils to disprove much of what science claims about when things lived. That should be so easy even an uneducated fool could do it. Which means you guys have no excuse. Except that you can't find such evidence because it can't possibly exist.

I've love to hear your input on this sensitive subject.

That is nonsense.

If we found human fossils with dinosaurs, 1 of 2 things would happen:

1. Scientists would claim, "Dinosaurs lived longer than we thought."

2. Scientists would claim, "Humans are older than we thought."

Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Antidote

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Re: Noah
« Reply #90 on: November 22, 2013, 09:08:55 PM »
It's quite likely that this type of dinosaur didn't exist until after the flood when animals were being spread all over the globe and micro-evolving into various species.

Any particular reason that the dinosaurs the paleontologists say are very old are always, as in every frickin' time, buried deeper in the rocks than the newer ones, such as the one you commented on. If they all coexisted, why aren't they all jumbled up. And why, pray tell (I'm trying to speak your language) are there never any human bones mixed in with the dinosaur ones if we were all here at the same time?

You realize, of course, all a fundy would have to do is go out and find human fossilized remains mixed in with dinosaur fossils to disprove much of what science claims about when things lived. That should be so easy even an uneducated fool could do it. Which means you guys have no excuse. Except that you can't find such evidence because it can't possibly exist.

I've love to hear your input on this sensitive subject.

That is nonsense.

If we found human fossils with dinosaurs, 1 of 2 things would happen:

1. Scientists would claim, "Dinosaurs lived longer than we thought."

2. Scientists would claim, "Humans are older than we thought."

Actually Dinosaurs did in fact live longer than YOU thought, we have little Theropod Dinosaurs all over the place, some get to be as tall as a man. I'll let you figure out what they are.

And you will NEVER find a human fossil with dinosaurs, minus those theropods I mentioned.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Noah
« Reply #91 on: November 22, 2013, 09:13:45 PM »
Actually Dinosaurs did in fact live longer than YOU thought, we have little Theropod Dinosaurs all over the place, some get to be as tall as a man. I'll let you figure out what they are.

And you will NEVER find a human fossil with dinosaurs, minus those theropods I mentioned.

Never say never.

By the way, if you can't falsify evolution, then it's not scientific.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Antidote

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Re: Noah
« Reply #92 on: November 22, 2013, 09:19:37 PM »
Actually Dinosaurs did in fact live longer than YOU thought, we have little Theropod Dinosaurs all over the place, some get to be as tall as a man. I'll let you figure out what they are.

And you will NEVER find a human fossil with dinosaurs, minus those theropods I mentioned.

Never say never.

By the way, if you can't falsify evolution, then it's not scientific.

You can falsify evolution, but the simple fact of the matter is: If we haven't found a human fossil with a T-Rex in the past 150 years, what makes you think we'll ever find one? It's becoming increasingly unlikely, you're just special pleading once again.

Also, what are those theropod dinosaurs I mentioned?
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Noah
« Reply #93 on: November 22, 2013, 09:21:50 PM »
Actually Dinosaurs did in fact live longer than YOU thought, we have little Theropod Dinosaurs all over the place, some get to be as tall as a man. I'll let you figure out what they are.

And you will NEVER find a human fossil with dinosaurs, minus those theropods I mentioned.

Never say never.

By the way, if you can't falsify evolution, then it's not scientific.

You can falsify evolution, but the simple fact of the matter is: If we haven't found a human fossil with a T-Rex in the past 150 years, what makes you think we'll ever find one? It's becoming increasingly unlikely, you're just special pleading once again.

Also, what are those theropod dinosaurs I mentioned?

If we haven't found something in 150 years, that means we will never find it?

So what about the discovery of Pluto, which wasn't found for about 200,000 years? (if you believe man is this old)
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Antidote

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Re: Noah
« Reply #94 on: November 22, 2013, 09:24:35 PM »
Actually Dinosaurs did in fact live longer than YOU thought, we have little Theropod Dinosaurs all over the place, some get to be as tall as a man. I'll let you figure out what they are.

And you will NEVER find a human fossil with dinosaurs, minus those theropods I mentioned.

Never say never.

By the way, if you can't falsify evolution, then it's not scientific.

You can falsify evolution, but the simple fact of the matter is: If we haven't found a human fossil with a T-Rex in the past 150 years, what makes you think we'll ever find one? It's becoming increasingly unlikely, you're just special pleading once again.

Also, what are those theropod dinosaurs I mentioned?

If we haven't found something in 150 years, that means we will never find it?

So what about the discovery of Pluto, which wasn't found for about 200,000 years? (if you believe man is this old)

I believe the human species is much older than that. But what the hell does Pluto have to do with us?
You're completely dodging the point.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Noah
« Reply #95 on: November 22, 2013, 09:28:40 PM »
I believe the human species is much older than that. But what the hell does Pluto have to do with us?
You're completely dodging the point.

I didn't dodge anything. You threw the ball at me, and I caught it. By the rules of the game, you're out.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Antidote

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Re: Noah
« Reply #96 on: November 22, 2013, 09:30:35 PM »
I believe the human species is much older than that. But what the hell does Pluto have to do with us?
You're completely dodging the point.

I didn't dodge anything. You threw the ball at me, and I caught it. By the rules of the game, you're out.

No, you're entirely dishonest, and you're really starting to tick people off. Actually address the question at hand, and give a well thought out response. If you do what you did with the Pluto retort, I'll report you for dodging the question.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Noah
« Reply #97 on: November 22, 2013, 09:34:20 PM »
I believe the human species is much older than that. But what the hell does Pluto have to do with us?
You're completely dodging the point.

I didn't dodge anything. You threw the ball at me, and I caught it. By the rules of the game, you're out.

No, you're entirely dishonest, and you're really starting to tick people off. Actually address the question at hand, and give a well thought out response. If you do what you did with the Pluto retort, I'll report you for dodging the question.

What is the question?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Antidote

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Re: Noah
« Reply #98 on: November 22, 2013, 09:34:58 PM »
I believe the human species is much older than that. But what the hell does Pluto have to do with us?
You're completely dodging the point.

I didn't dodge anything. You threw the ball at me, and I caught it. By the rules of the game, you're out.

No, you're entirely dishonest, and you're really starting to tick people off. Actually address the question at hand, and give a well thought out response. If you do what you did with the Pluto retort, I'll report you for dodging the question.

What is the question?

You know what the question is.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Noah
« Reply #99 on: November 22, 2013, 09:37:45 PM »
That is nonsense.

If we found human fossils with dinosaurs, 1 of 2 things would happen:

1. Scientists would claim, "Dinosaurs lived longer than we thought."

2. Scientists would claim, "Humans are older than we thought."

Why don't you go find some and we'll find out if that's true or not.

Actually, if they said that, they would also have to rewrite all of evolutionary theory, which would be hard to do because they wouldn't have any good research to work with any more. The would admit that they were wrong, because they would have no other choice.

But that doesn't matter. You can't find such a mixture, nor can anyone else, so you need to realize that a) it really would disprove evolution and b) your sunk, because evolution is true, and you cannot possibly find human remains mixed in with dinosaurs. There is a reason for that that goes far beyond what you wish was true. It involves what is actually true.

You really need to explain the Pluto thing. It makes no sense at all. So little sense that it makes some of your other stuff start to make sense. Which is impossible. So please explain

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Noah
« Reply #100 on: November 22, 2013, 09:41:11 PM »
That is nonsense.

If we found human fossils with dinosaurs, 1 of 2 things would happen:

1. Scientists would claim, "Dinosaurs lived longer than we thought."

2. Scientists would claim, "Humans are older than we thought."

Why don't you go find some and we'll find out if that's true or not.

Actually, if they said that, they would also have to rewrite all of evolutionary theory, which would be hard to do because they wouldn't have any good research to work with any more. The would admit that they were wrong, because they would have no other choice.

But that doesn't matter. You can't find such a mixture, nor can anyone else, so you need to realize that a) it really would disprove evolution and b) your sunk, because evolution is true, and you cannot possibly find human remains mixed in with dinosaurs. There is a reason for that that goes far beyond what you wish was true. It involves what is actually true.

You really need to explain the Pluto thing. It makes no sense at all. So little sense that it makes some of your other stuff start to make sense. Which is impossible. So please explain

The other poster said that "if we haven't found something in 150 years, we will never find it." I was pointing out that this is false because atheists think the humans have been around for 200,000 years and we didn't discover Pluto until very recently.

This means that you can't say that just because we haven't found something in 150 years, this means we will never find it.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Antidote

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Re: Noah
« Reply #101 on: November 22, 2013, 10:22:25 PM »
That is nonsense.

If we found human fossils with dinosaurs, 1 of 2 things would happen:

1. Scientists would claim, "Dinosaurs lived longer than we thought."

2. Scientists would claim, "Humans are older than we thought."

Why don't you go find some and we'll find out if that's true or not.

Actually, if they said that, they would also have to rewrite all of evolutionary theory, which would be hard to do because they wouldn't have any good research to work with any more. The would admit that they were wrong, because they would have no other choice.

But that doesn't matter. You can't find such a mixture, nor can anyone else, so you need to realize that a) it really would disprove evolution and b) your sunk, because evolution is true, and you cannot possibly find human remains mixed in with dinosaurs. There is a reason for that that goes far beyond what you wish was true. It involves what is actually true.

You really need to explain the Pluto thing. It makes no sense at all. So little sense that it makes some of your other stuff start to make sense. Which is impossible. So please explain

The other poster said that "if we haven't found something in 150 years, we will never find it." I was pointing out that this is false because atheists think the humans have been around for 200,000 years and we didn't discover Pluto until very recently.

This means that you can't say that just because we haven't found something in 150 years, this means we will never find it.

You're lying once again:
Quote from: Antidote
If we haven't found a human fossil with a T-Rex in the past 150 years, what makes you think we'll ever find one? It's becoming increasingly unlikely, you're just special pleading once again.
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Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Noah
« Reply #102 on: November 23, 2013, 06:06:59 AM »
Just a thought but how would you stop some of the animals eating/chewing through ?
I take it the boat was made from wood. Have you seen what hamsters, gerbils etc can do to wood not to mention the unbelievable escape powers these little critters have (found them under floorboards, in sofa linings, they get everywhere!).
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Noah
« Reply #103 on: November 23, 2013, 06:31:18 AM »


Also, these must have been on it.

Lets just say that 1 termite every 3 seconds is not going to end well on a boat made of wood.
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: Noah
« Reply #104 on: November 23, 2013, 11:40:40 AM »

Adding god into the mix *is* silly.  Does god make your toilet flush, or physics?


You do realize that the story is entirely silly without the addition of massive
magical alterations and subsequent concealment, right?


Lets try this simple experiment.  Look at a plant.  Any plant, a tree outside your window for example. 
How did that tree get there?
There are a few simple answers that can come to mind,
1) it could have grown accidentally (bird drops seed, seed grows into tree). 
2)It could have been deliberately planted by Jesus, a gardener. 
3) Or a God could have willed it into existence.

Exhibit A



Now, as you can see from the simple example we can prove at least one of these. 
The gardner, or city crew planting.  We will have records of something like this. 
Plus there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to point that way.  We see this happening all the time.

It's possible that a bird 'might' have dropped a bunch of seeds in a perfectly symmetrical pattern,
but this isn't observed very often in thousands of empirical examples. 
We do see trees grow perfectly fine without our intervention of course, just not usually in a symmetrical pattern as seen in the picture.

The third option, that a being from another dimension did it and concealed the evidence isn't even considered for obvious reasons.
Mostly because we never, and HAVE never observed it happening.


The problem here isn't that we can't figure out how these trees got where they are.  The problem is that somebody is positing a supernatural explanation with nothing other than a bronze age book as 'evidence'.  The problem also is that there is literally no evidence of this event happening, OR that for it to have happened the supernatural element will have had to conceal the evidence of it having done this, AND left a story behind that it did.


Do you see the problem here?  Your magical solution has more problems than a non-magical solution.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 11:43:58 AM by MadBunny »
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Noah
« Reply #105 on: November 23, 2013, 11:51:43 AM »


I call upon our first witness, skeptic54768!

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Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Noah
« Reply #106 on: November 23, 2013, 04:50:38 PM »

The problem here isn't that we can't figure out how these trees got where they are.  The problem is that somebody is positing a supernatural explanation with nothing other than a bronze age book as 'evidence'.  The problem also is that there is literally no evidence of this event happening, OR that for it to have happened the supernatural element will have had to conceal the evidence of it having done this, AND left a story behind that it did.

Something about this bronze age book bothers me too.
I just can't see a single piece of credible evidence for the supernatural element.
Just one more question Skeptic..........
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Noah
« Reply #107 on: November 23, 2013, 06:13:53 PM »
And how do you suggest they got so big in such a short amount of time?

Imagine that question, but this time imagine it with an all-powerful God in mind.

Well, then you are talking about Noah's story being magic--that is, not possible given the basics of science. That is changing the subject. We are explaining why the Noah story cannot be true according to science. Science is about things that are possible given physics, biology, climatology, geology, astronomy, archaeology, etc.

Magic does not have to take any of that into account. We all agree that the Noah story has to be a fairy tale based on magic.

But we were discussing what is scientifically possible. Not what is magically possible if all bets are off, powerful but undetectable fairies are real, anything can happen, and you can't trust the evidence of your senses or any measuring instruments. And all the evidence magically disappears.

You are proposing that dinosaurs and other species quickly evolved into different sorts of animals right in front of people as if by time lapse photography. And it had never happened before or since. Because of god magic. Each generation of lizard got gigantically bigger and bigger, eating entire forests of food and then one day they all disappeared. But nobody noticed it happening or recorded it in any way. No ancient Chinese or Egyptian records of anyone eating dinosaur or being eaten by them.[1] No fossil dino bones found in the ruins of any ancient civilizations.  No Jurassic park scenarios anywhere.

Because that world where anything can happen but not in front of anybody and without never leaving any physical evidence that it happened? That is not the world we have. Sorry.
 1. And those people recorded who bought how much silk or linen and how much they paid, who hadn't paid their taxes, who had sex in what position, how to make a mummy, how high the Pearl or Nile river was every season-- everything! They would not have missed the giant reptiles all over the place, getting bigger every day.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline natlegend

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Re: Noah
« Reply #108 on: November 23, 2013, 07:30:59 PM »
Just going back to the original trailer for the Noah movie, I would actually like to see a movie based on the writings in Revelations. Flaming swords, horn blowing, whores riding dragons, the dead rising from the grave, locusts with scorpian tails, oceans of blood, rivers of blood, lots of blood... that would be kewl...
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline Fiji

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Re: Noah
« Reply #109 on: November 25, 2013, 01:43:06 AM »
Just going back to the original trailer for the Noah movie, I would actually like to see a movie based on the writings in Revelations. Flaming swords, horn blowing, whores riding dragons, the dead rising from the grave, locusts with scorpian tails, oceans of blood, rivers of blood, lots of blood... that would be kewl...

And at the center of it all ... Mr.Lordi!
I'd pay to see that!
Science: I'll believe it when I see it
Faith: I'll see it when I believe it

Schrodinger's thunderdome! One cat enters and one MIGHT leave!

Without life, god has no meaning.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Noah
« Reply #110 on: November 25, 2013, 01:55:18 AM »
So about those locust-scorpions...

We kinda already got them.

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Offline MadBunny

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Re: Noah
« Reply #111 on: November 25, 2013, 02:45:11 AM »
Dammit, I was hoping to sleep...ever.  WTF is that thing?  The only thing worse would be a flying spider scorpion.

http://i.imgur.com/2XFdPE7.jpg


FFFFFuuuuuuuuu
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Noah
« Reply #112 on: November 25, 2013, 03:36:45 AM »
This cute guy will make you sleep.
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Offline natlegend

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Re: Noah
« Reply #113 on: November 26, 2013, 01:27:24 AM »
Dudes! No more with the scary pictures! It would seem that god is ready and prepared to inflict suffering on his beloved children on earth... oh, wait...   &)
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Noah
« Reply #114 on: November 26, 2013, 01:57:12 AM »
Are....are you god?
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline natlegend

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Re: Noah
« Reply #115 on: November 26, 2013, 03:23:14 AM »
Shh for My sake, keep it to yourself man...
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.