Author Topic: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?  (Read 14086 times)

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #406 on: February 23, 2014, 12:09:22 AM »
And the goats getting it on in front of a stripped stick to make stripped baby goats. If you just wait long enough, they'll evolve. The bible didn't mean right away. Don't bring that one up either. And besides, goats love eating grasshoppers too. No matter how many legs they have. As long as the grasshoppers have been converted into tin can labels.. And aren't dirty.

Cause goats ain't frickin' snakes
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Offline voodoo child

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #407 on: February 23, 2014, 12:10:06 AM »
since we are splitting hairs and all.
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #408 on: February 23, 2014, 12:11:16 AM »
And the recent thing about no camels in the middle east when he bible says there were. That we know that because we can't find any camel bones that old. Don't you idiots realize that early camels had no bones. What more proof do you want!
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #409 on: February 23, 2014, 12:12:41 AM »
God I love good science!

Oops, I appear to be posting too fast. How is that possible. Didn't the bible say something about not needing to adhere to forum rules?
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Offline voodoo child

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #410 on: February 23, 2014, 12:15:10 AM »
God I love good science!

Oops, I appear to be posting too fast. How is that possible. Didn't the bible say something about not needing to adhere to forum rules?

oh well  :)
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #411 on: February 23, 2014, 12:30:58 AM »
Sword, I need your help. The bible, that paragon of scientific literacy is, sadly, poorly indexed. Since god took the time to accurately describe the specifics of grasshoppers and the heritage of bats, I assume he only got into the trivia after covering the more important aspects of reality. So where, exactly, did he cover germ theory?
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Offline Astreja

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #412 on: February 23, 2014, 01:31:52 AM »
Don't you idiots realize that early camels had no bones. What more proof do you want!

No bones?  Did they just kind of ooze from one caravanserai to the next?  ;D
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Online Nam

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #413 on: February 23, 2014, 01:35:15 AM »
Nam, the only self confessed asshole Im dealing with, is a clown who cant count.

More to the point, external evidence for my argument with Andy S about the Grasshopper having 1 Pair of Jumping Legs and 2 Pair of Walking Legs, was conducted using 3 (THREE) sources of external evidence outside of Christianity, compared with only 1 (ONE) Christian source which I had used, the Bible.  Here they are below.

Most of the links you had in the grasshopper discussion were basically the same link, so, I only counted one of those. And, I didn't count links that were used for mocking purposes, and any of your blatant plagiarism where sources weren't used.

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Fact that I Proved Against Andy S:  "Grasshoppers have 1 Pair of Jumping Legs and 2 Pair of Walking Legs As Described in the Holy Bible"

External Source 1. http://www.biologycorner.com/worksheets/grasshopper_teacher.html
External Source 2. http://www.biologyjunction.com/grasshopper_dissection.htm
External Source 3. http://hluke.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/2/8/13288821/5-10_grasshopper_dissection.pdf

Here are just 2 (TWO) of my External Sources you have deliberately not listed in the so-called 'non-religious' section.  Totalling 7 sources alltogether for your 'count' if you can call it that, thus far.

External Source 2. http://www.biologyjunction.com/grasshopper_dissection.htm
External Source 3. http://hluke.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/2/8/13288821/5-10_grasshopper_dissection.pdf

Again: basically the same links.

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THESES SOURCES ARE MISSING... NOWHERE TO BE FOUND IN YOUR ARGUMENT. 

My comment isn't an "argument" you twit.

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Therefore, like most Atheist arguments, your ridiculous and incorrect fallacious argument lacks evidence and thus any power of reason.

Oh, so in your mind it's everything or nothing? Well, you provide nothing all the time.

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I dont have to insult you or call you an idiot as you like doing to me because its so easy to make you look like a complete pink Darth Vaders helmet.  All I do is just pull your very weak arguments apart and expose the error of your ways.

You haven't done that. I've asked you several questions and you turn around and reply with sarcasm. You never answered any of them, and when others inquire you say I'm not being serious because you say so.

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Rethink your approach.. its simply not working with me.  Not all the strategies of self proclaimed assholes work on everyone... Infact I notice it when you get annoyed, because then I know what Ive said is the truth and that my arguments have had an impact on you.

You have never had an impact on me. What an ego you have.

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Sooner or later your asshole bad boy thing is going to backfire.  So just be nice, be cool and relax.

I'm always like this. People like you come and go but I'll still be here.

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However, for the record, your posts... since you have selectively and subjectively left my non-Christian External Sources out, it makes me wonder what other facts you have selectively left out as well in all your other ramblings of utter twaddle.

Minus the repetitious grasshopper links and the mocking links, i left out nothing. I went comment to comment that you made, on a phone no less, and posted every one you made.

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It only proves one thing.. that even in your so-called objective analysis of the sources Ive used, you still couldnt use that same supposed objectivity for my External Sources.  Now THATS funny! You dug your own hole... maybe thats why you call yourself asshole? Moron.

Point this at you, not me.

-Nam
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 01:45:06 AM by Nam »
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

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Offline Astreja

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #414 on: February 23, 2014, 01:36:21 AM »
If he were Jesus, then that just opens up a whole other can of contradictions. Does that mean he pretended to be dead for a few days just for emphasis? :)

I'd like to think that the message Jesus was trying to get out was "Guys, you can't fix your bad behaviour by sacrificing stuff.  Now put down that dove and back away slow... Hey!  Ow!  Quit it!"
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Online Nam

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #415 on: February 23, 2014, 01:43:56 AM »
I'm not going to argue the point. Yes, a grasshopper's hind set of legs is clearly evolved as specialized jumping appendages. Even if they might use them when they are walking.

However, looking at these past videos, I can't help but notice that while the grasshoppers which are, indeed, using their hind legs in an ambulatory manner seem to be getting along quite smoothly and comfortably, the one in the last video seems to be wobbling about and dragging his hind legs almost as though they had been injured or something. It is definitely looking a but rough, and taking much longer about getting from point a to point b than the grasshoppers in the first couple of clips.

I bet the person taking the video, injured the grasshopper and then made the video. Grasshoppers are everywhere where I live, and I've only seen injured grasshoppers move like that.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #416 on: February 23, 2014, 02:01:07 AM »
Don't you idiots realize that early camels had no bones. What more proof do you want!

No bones?  Did they just kind of ooze from one caravanserai to the next?  ;D

No, they were just one big hump. Except the Bacterian, which were two humps. The bones came later.
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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #417 on: February 23, 2014, 02:05:38 AM »
Maybe the Bible confuses grasshoppers with crickets or locusts since they look similar to each other?

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #418 on: February 23, 2014, 02:33:57 AM »
Maybe the Bible confuses grasshoppers with crickets or locusts since they look similar to each other?

-Nam

No, in the old testament, in the book of Audubon, each is correctly described and illustrated, and their associated territories and distribution is discussed in great detail. There are colored photos and everything. How we dared challenge such complete documentation, I don't know.

Of course, I've always wondered how a god who so painstakingly describes grasshoppers can let his people run around lost for 40 years. But I guess we all have our strengths and weaknesses. I'm thinking that if only he'd provided them with a wireless connection and an iPad, along with Google Earth, they would have made it out of the wilderness in a year. Two tops. But no, half a million people walking around for 40 years, stepping on grasshoppers and stuff. That was all he could do.

But who am I to complain. He couldn't help them find their way home, I can't play golf for sh*t. We all have our weaknesses.
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Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #419 on: February 23, 2014, 07:25:57 AM »
I'm not going to argue the point. Yes, a grasshopper's hind set of legs is clearly evolved as specialized jumping appendages. Even if they might use them when they are walking.

However, looking at these past videos, I can't help but notice that while the grasshoppers which are, indeed, using their hind legs in an ambulatory manner seem to be getting along quite smoothly and comfortably, the one in the last video seems to be wobbling about and dragging his hind legs almost as though they had been injured or something. It is definitely looking a but rough, and taking much longer about getting from point a to point b than the grasshoppers in the first couple of clips.

Again... all subjective.  Where is your actual scientific evidence like that I have presented? Its only fair to request the same.  It is clear thus far, that we have 2 videos, one showing 4 legs in operation and one showing a grasshopper using 4 legs and the extra 2 as some sort of locomotive projection aid in addition to the 4 walking legs.  The issue is, what does science say the legs are used for and what does the bible indicate? If one is honest, and at least attempting be be objective, like ParkingPlaces, then and only then can science prevail in the minds of men... along side scripture that is.

PS.  ParkingPlaces.. well done sir.. finally someone here is not being so biased. This is a victory for both science and the Bible.
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

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Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #420 on: February 23, 2014, 08:04:29 AM »
Nam...


"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #421 on: February 23, 2014, 08:39:27 AM »
*snip*

Now i really want a komodo dragon...
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #422 on: February 23, 2014, 09:02:08 AM »
*snip*

Now i really want a komodo dragon...

ha ha ha...

Here you are Angus and Alexis..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Komodo_dragon_with_tongue.jpg

Just for you..

edit: hotlink to image changed to url
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 10:55:54 AM by screwtape »
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

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Offline Willie

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #423 on: February 23, 2014, 09:32:59 AM »
Don't you idiots realize that early camels had no bones. What more proof do you want!

No bones?  Did they just kind of ooze from one caravanserai to the next?  ;D

The early boneless camels were much like octopi. That's why they could pass through the eye of a needle.




Online Nam

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #424 on: February 23, 2014, 10:15:14 AM »
Hey SOGGY,

You may smite me for bringing up your plagiarism but you're the one who did it and then denied it afterward. That makes you the loser, not me.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #425 on: February 23, 2014, 10:38:27 AM »
Hey SOGGY,

You may smite me for bringing up your plagiarism but you're the one who did it and then denied it afterward. That makes you the loser, not me.

-Nam

Namsy Baby..

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

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Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #426 on: February 23, 2014, 11:00:49 AM »
Don't you idiots realize that early camels had no bones. What more proof do you want!

No bones?  Did they just kind of ooze from one caravanserai to the next?  ;D

No, they were just one big hump. Except the Bacterian, which were two humps. The bones came later.

Hi ParkingPlaces,

I thought I would highlight an Athiests Darwin compassion between you and Nam, forgive me if its presumptuous to do so... but. I find it worth noting, you seem to have a whopping 590+ Green Darwins for over 5600 quality posts, yet Nam has nearly 11000 (arguably nonsensical) posts and not even half the amount of cool Green Darwins youve got, and 67 smites more than you.

Then I realize, "hang on a minute", that's because ParkingPlaces seems such a cool guy! And Nam, well... a self confessed "asshole" yes, that was in his own words.

 ;D



 
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Offline Andy S.

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #427 on: February 23, 2014, 11:07:01 AM »

WHAT IS THIS!  I get back from a nice little mini-vacation and I find a negative darwin???  WHAT IS IT FOR?  WHO IS IT FROM?........YOU........THE GUY I WAS SO NICE TO AND WELCOMED TO THE FORUM AND GAVE A THUMBS UP TO FOR AN AMAZING POST??? ;D  Why do you give me a thumbs down?  Here is your reasoning-- "Ha ha ha ha... I just had to do it because you had 0 there".  You sure put the ASS in grASShopper!!!

Darn it, my hope is ruined!  I wanted to go my whole lifetime without a negative darwin.  That was my hope Sword.  You took away my hope and crushed my dreams of always obtaining a perfect "darwin" record.  Now you might be in danger.  Since you took away my hope and gave me a negative darwin for no good reason, your god might take away your hope of an eternal afterlife in heaven.  He might give you the thumbs down on judgement day because you take part in the wrong Christianity.

Its called the Hypostatic Union.

Your brand of theology calls it Hypostatic Union and my brand of theology calls this doctrine "developed and contradictory".  The Hypostatic Union is a term that is used to describe the union of Jesus' humanity and divinity in one hypostasis.  It attempts to explain how Jesus can be fully god and fully man.  This doctrine is pulled from Phil. 2:7 as you pointed out.  But check out how dumb and contradictory this is.  Let's take a look at the following verse.  Phil. 2:8 states, "Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming OBEDIENT to the point of death, even death on a cross".  If Jesus is fully god can god OBEY himself?       

Jesus said that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would never be forgiven?

I wonder if god called himself a dumbass after he said this.

Matt. 12:32 says, “Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

I don't think the doctrines of the Trinity or Hypostatic Union bear any sort of truth whatsoever.  Well, maybe I'm wrong.  I could see that these doctrines are true if after Jesus made this comment, the Holy Spirit says, "Pssssst, hey Jesus, whoever blasphemes against me also blasphemes against you because we are the same being dumbass"!

Why?  Because Jesus, as a man who was ministering completely as a man under the Law (Gal. 4:4-5), did His miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit.  This demonstrates that Christ was completely human and dependent upon God and that He was cooperating with the limitations of being human.  That is why He said He didn't know the day or hour of His return.

You do realize that the doctrine of the Trinity states that Jesus and his daddy are "one being" (con-substantial) don't you?  If Jesus and his daddy are "one being" then Jesus would have to know the timing of his second coming if his daddy knows. 

However, we see that after the resurrection of Christ it is said of Him that He knows all things (John 21:17) and that He is omnipresent (Matt. 28:20).  Therefore, after His resurrection and glorification, the Lord Jesus did know all things.[/i]

Okay, if John 21:17 says that Jesus knows all things then why does Revelation 1:1 say that Jesus had to be GIVEN "the Revelation" by his daddy?  Just like I didn't have to ponder over your grasshopper youtube video because I KNOW grasshoppers use six feet to walk, Jesus wouldn't have to be GIVEN the Revelation if he already "KNOWS all things".  This implies Jesus does NOT "know all things" after his resurrection and glorification.  I see this as a contradiction.  Ready.....Set.....Scramble and Harmonize.
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries, that have afflicted the human race, have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
~Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason)

Offline Andy S.

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #428 on: February 23, 2014, 11:17:48 AM »
I'm not going to argue the point. Yes, a grasshopper's hind set of legs is clearly evolved as specialized jumping appendages. Even if they might use them when they are walking.

However, looking at these past videos, I can't help but notice that while the grasshoppers which are, indeed, using their hind legs in an ambulatory manner seem to be getting along quite smoothly and comfortably, the one in the last video seems to be wobbling about and dragging his hind legs almost as though they had been injured or something. It is definitely looking a but rough, and taking much longer about getting from point a to point b than the grasshoppers in the first couple of clips.

I bet the person taking the video, injured the grasshopper and then made the video. Grasshoppers are everywhere where I live, and I've only seen injured grasshoppers move like that.

-Nam

Yes Jynnan tonix and Nam, the grasshopper that Sword posted was injured.  Maybe Sword had the volume to his computer turned down and he could not hear the grasshopper screaming in agony.  Turn your computer up and listen at the 29th second.  The grasshopper is clearly in a lot of pain judging from his scream.




Did anyone notice the atheist grasshopper that ParkingPlaces posted was a lot faster than the one Sword posted?  I wonder if there is a direct correlation with the rate of the grasshopper's speed to the rate of intelligence?  "Woe Woe Woe there Andy" (says Andy's subconscience), "gullibility does not equal stupidity"!  Okay okay, I take it back.

Hey, maybe we are in the third Woe Sword.  A still small voice in my head (my subconscience) had me write "Woe Woe Woe".  You can use this evidence as a piece of the puzzle in attempting to crack the code of the second coming.

Come to think of it.  It's quite possible that the founding father of SDA's, William Miller, had the date of the second coming spot on.  The reason why Jesus didn't come back on October 22, 1844 is because Jesus was pissed that Miller cracked the code. ;D
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries, that have afflicted the human race, have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
~Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason)

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #429 on: February 23, 2014, 11:38:35 AM »
I bet SOGGY injured the grasshopper just to prove himself right. What a Christian!

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Andy S.

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #430 on: February 23, 2014, 12:04:22 PM »
Nogodsforme, you are right.  "The video of the grasshopper with six legs, clearly using them all to walk, will not convince the religious believers that the bible is wrong."  I mean, in post #376 Sword makes the ridiculous claim: "A grasshopper walks on its front four legs and the back legs are specialized for leaping -- they aren't generally used for walking."  I then show him through the means of youtube that grasshoppers generally do use their hind legs for walking.  I mean, does the guy want me to catch a grasshopper and drive it over to his house and show him that grasshoppers use all six legs to walk???  I bet this would not convince Sword either.

To play off of Sword's signature, "For those who believe that grasshoppers use all six legs to walk, SEE THE EVIDENCE. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible". :laugh:

A wise man once said, "AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES" (Matt. 13:15).

I can't believe the conversation about grasshoppers went on for so long.  As Sketchiii said, "why are we arguing about how grasshoppers walk when Lev 11:23 clearly says they have four feet regardless"?

In additon, I don't mean to derail this thread but I would also like to question the benevolence of this all-powerful deity.  I mean, he says in his holy book that eating grasshoppers is okay but eating pork is an abomination.  This god is a jerk.  I have eaten a grasshopper before and trust me, it does not taste as good as pork. 

And what does god have against pigs.  Sure they are "filthy" animals in the minds of many but look at who created them according to Christians.  I mean, does it make sense to create an animal and then call them an abomination.  Why would you create 2000 pigs and then murder them (Mark 5:13)?  What has a pig ever done to Yahweh/Jesus?  It almost makes just as much since as god creating people with defects and then god telling these people with defects that they will profane his sanctuary if they approach the veil or altar with the defect that god created these people with. &)

Anyway Sword, pork is good.  I don't know if your denomination allows you to watch rated R movies so I am warning you up front that this is a clip from a rated R movie:

     
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries, that have afflicted the human race, have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
~Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason)

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #431 on: February 23, 2014, 04:56:56 PM »
God loves pigs. That's why he does not want people to kill and eat them, even though they can convert just about any organic material into meat that tastes delicious.

God clearly hates grasshoppers, no matter how many feet they have or which feet they use for what.

The bible is always right, even when the parts based on fallible humans observing the world and like, counting grasshopper legs, are not accurate. And the parts about how to cure leprosy (bird's blood, works like a charm) or about what to do with a rapist and a rape victim (hey, just make them get married! :-*) are also true, you just have to interpret them correctly.

Now, these parts were going to be included in later editions of the bible: how to prevent infectious disease (wash hands and boil water to kill germs; develop vaccines) or how to find petroleum (by studying fossils and rock formations) or how to build an airplane (by studying physics and aerodynamics). Future editions of the bible would be even more right!  God would reveal all when we were ready to receive the information.....

BTW, I watched my SDA grandfather lose the family business because he would not open on Saturdays. The business? A Laundromat. Closed. On. Saturdays. The one day a week when a laundry makes most of its money. So, yes, I think SDA folks are a bit irrational. And I say this as a former JW, so I know irrational.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #432 on: February 23, 2014, 07:21:14 PM »

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WHAT IS THIS!  I get back from a nice little mini-vacation and I find a negative darwin???  WHAT IS IT FOR?  WHO IS IT FROM?........YOU........THE GUY I WAS SO NICE TO AND WELCOMED TO THE FORUM AND GAVE A THUMBS UP TO FOR AN AMAZING POST??? ;D  Why do you give me a thumbs down?  Here is your reasoning-- "Ha ha ha ha... I just had to do it because you had 0 there".  You sure put the ASS in grASShopper!!!

Errr Hi Andy!

Thanks for the credit!

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Darn it, my hope is ruined!  I wanted to go my whole lifetime without a negative darwin.  That was my hope Sword.  You took away my hope and crushed my dreams of always obtaining a perfect "darwin" record.  Now you might be in danger.  Since you took away my hope and gave me a negative darwin for no good reason, your god might take away your hope of an eternal afterlife in heaven.  He might give you the thumbs down on judgement day because you take part in the wrong Christianity.

Ha ha ha ha ha!  I'm sorry Andy, I just couldn't resist. In response to your point, people are not going to hell because they joined the wrong Christian denomination because no organisation or membership saves us.  Christ does.  For the record, Gods people are in all the religions, including Atheism.. they just might not know it yet. What we can say is, those who reject the truth after hearing it, and still continue in their ways unrepentant after the time of grace ends, they will not enter the Kingodom of God, but will be lost forever. God does not want that, but its mans free choice to chose as he pleases.  That free choice is given to us by God.. and it is given to you too, as we are all equal in Gods sight, no matter what we believe.


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Your brand of theology calls it Hypostatic Union and my brand of theology calls this doctrine "developed and contradictory".  The Hypostatic Union is a term that is used to describe the union of Jesus' humanity and divinity in one hypostasis.  It attempts to explain how Jesus can be fully god and fully man.  This doctrine is pulled from Phil. 2:7 as you pointed out.  But check out how dumb and contradictory this is.  Let's take a look at the following verse.  Phil. 2:8 states, "Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming OBEDIENT to the point of death, even death on a cross".  If Jesus is fully god can god OBEY himself?   
 

That depends on weather you believe in the Christian Godhead or not...However, if it seems dumb to you, then perhaps I'll ask a few questions to illustrate your point more; If you are fully man, being lower than God, can you obey yourself? Can you tell yourself to do someting?  Your brain tells your body to do things all the time and yet you dont even give it a second thought. Theologically speaking, is anything too difficult for God?

One of many verses spring to mind... "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor 2:14.

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Jesus said that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would never be forgiven?

I wonder if god called himself a dumbass after he said this.

Matt. 12:32 says, “Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

I don't think the doctrines of the Trinity or Hypostatic Union bear any sort of truth whatsoever.  Well, maybe I'm wrong.  I could see that these doctrines are true if after Jesus made this comment, the Holy Spirit says, "Pssssst, hey Jesus, whoever blasphemes against me also blasphemes against you because we are the same being dumbass"!


I wont answer your disrespectful questioning tone. I don't mean to be rude, please undestand. Thanks.


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Why?  Because Jesus, as a man who was ministering completely as a man under the Law (Gal. 4:4-5), did His miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit.  This demonstrates that Christ was completely human and dependent upon God and that He was cooperating with the limitations of being human.  That is why He said He didn't know the day or hour of His return.

... and forgiving the sins of mankind demonstrated His divinity since only God can forgive sins (Luke 5:17-26) hence the doctrine of the unity of God. It seems you choose to ignore the verses that show the divinity of Jesus. To be honest about this question, is to be objective of the facts, reading the Bible with no bias, otherwise, you will miss out the other facts. Put them all together, and you get the truth.

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You do realize that the doctrine of the Trinity states that Jesus and his daddy are "one being" (con-substantial) don't you?  If Jesus and his daddy are "one being" then Jesus would have to know the timing of his second coming if his daddy knows. 

If you want a reply from me, please rethink about how you refer to God.  When you refer to God the Father, please do so out of courtesy / goodwill, otherwise I will not be able to reply to your posts again. I don't mean to be difficult. Thanks.

However, we see that after the resurrection of Christ it is said of Him that He knows all things (John 21:17) and that He is omnipresent (Matt. 28:20).  Therefore, after His resurrection and glorification, the Lord Jesus did know all things.[/i]

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Okay, if John 21:17 says that Jesus knows all things then why does Revelation 1:1 say that Jesus had to be GIVEN "the Revelation" by his daddy?  Just like I didn't have to ponder over your grasshopper youtube video because I KNOW grasshoppers use six feet to walk, Jesus wouldn't have to be GIVEN the Revelation if he already "KNOWS all things".  This implies Jesus does NOT "know all things" after his resurrection and glorification.  I see this as a contradiction.  Ready.....Set.....Scramble and Harmonize.

Again, see above for why I will not respond to this.

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #433 on: February 23, 2014, 08:54:05 PM »
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Andy S says..
Nogodsforme, you are right.  "The video of the grasshopper with six legs, clearly using them all to walk, will not convince the religious believers that the bible is wrong."  I mean, in post #376 Sword makes the ridiculous claim: "A grasshopper walks on its front four legs and the back legs are specialized for leaping -- they aren't generally used for walking."  I then show him through the means of youtube that grasshoppers generally do use their hind legs for walking.  I mean, does the guy want me to catch a grasshopper and drive it over to his house and show him that grasshoppers use all six legs to walk???  I bet this would not convince Sword either.

Nogodsforme, politely speaking, you are wrong, and so is Andy, but you both know this already because deep down, you know science must prevail on this topic.  Science is actually on my side of the debate /  argument here. In this case, it matters not what any video on earth independently shows on Youtube without a scientific review of the facts. What counts is the scientific interpretation of the observation.  Since no scientific observation has been made in both clips, we need to rely on other external evidence to decide.  There is no getting away from the facts.  Biology agrees with the Bible, and try as you might to avoid this, we all know that's true. 

20 ‘All the winged insects that walk on all fours are detestable to you. 21 Yet these you may eat among all the winged insects which walk on all fours: those which have above their feet jointed legs with which to jump on the earth. 22 These of them you may eat: the locust in its kinds, and the devastating locust in its kinds, and the cricket in its kinds, and the grasshopper in its kinds. 23 But all other winged insects which are four-footed are detestable to you.

This verse clearly indicates that insects which fly, walk on all fours, and have another set of legs for jumping. That's 6 legs. Not only this, but the sources have been provided in previous posts which highlight the same distinction the Bible makes regarding the 4 walking legs, and pair of jumping legs, such as the grasshopper. Biology proves this.

Grasshoppers have 2 pair of walking legs (Leviticus 11:20)  http://www.biologyjunction.com/grasshopper_dissection.htm
Grasshoppers have 1 pair of jumping legs (Leviticus 11:21) http://www.biologyjunction.com/grasshopper_dissection.htm

Grasshoppers have 2 pair of walking legs (Leviticus 11:20) See Part 5 at http://hluke.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/2/8/13288821/5-10_grasshopper_dissection.pdf
Grasshoppers have 1 pair of jumping legs (Leviticus 11:21) See Part 5 at  http://hluke.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/2/8/13288821/5-10_grasshopper_dissection.pdf

Its very clear to the honest enquirer what is the truth here.  The Bible makes the distinction, whereas you do not.  Biological science also makes the distinction.



Source: http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/magazine/mj02/images/grasshopperdiagram.jpg

Please see post 382 for further details:

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To play off of Sword's signature, "For those who believe that grasshoppers use all six legs to walk, SEE THE EVIDENCE. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible". :laugh:

A wise man once said, "AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES" (Matt. 13:15).

Oh hallelujah. lol. The video shown with the grasshopper, can not be objectively considered as evidence without scientific interpretation of the facts, since there are two videos with apparent differences for the same insect class. The Bible provides textual evidence, not video footage, or any images, so let us compare text with text.  The science texts clearly teach the same as the bible.  The videos are interpreted subjectively without external evidence.  Therefore, independently speaking, both videos are inadmissible as 'evidence'.

The best evidence for this case, is scientific research written in black and white for all to see. That, ladies and gentlemen, is what has been provided by the SwordOfGod.

Those who believe in God, have no problem accepting the scientific facts backing the bible, and when it does, those who do not believe in God, then pretend science itself doesn't exist to fit in with their preconceived ideas. Such an approach is not objective enough to be considered honest or even reliable when seeking out truth.  If you want to deny it thats fine, but at the end of the day, you know what you have done.

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In additon, I don't mean to derail this thread but I would also like to question the benevolence of this all-powerful deity.  I mean, he says in his holy book that eating grasshoppers is okay but eating pork is an abomination.  This god is a jerk.  I have eaten a grasshopper before and trust me, it does not taste as good as pork. 

I won't offer a reply to a lack of courtesy and baseless insults to God. We are all entitled to our beliefs. Thanks.

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And what does god have against pigs.  Sure they are "filthy" animals in the minds of many but look at who created them according to Christians.  I mean, does it make sense to create an animal and then call them an abomination.  Why would you create 2000 pigs and then murder them (Mark 5:13)?  What has a pig ever done to Yahweh/Jesus?  It almost makes just as much since as god creating people with defects and then god telling these people with defects that they will profane his sanctuary if they approach the veil or altar with the defect that god created these people with. &)

Anyway Sword, pork is good.  I don't know if your denomination allows you to watch rated R movies so I am warning you up front that this is a clip from a rated R movie:

Pigs were made for a reason, but they were not meant to be eaten. Pigs are animals which get rid of just about anything, they are scavengers and best used under controlled conditions to maintain a rubbish free environment on a farm or such like. Prawns are another example of unclean foods. Prawns do the same job pigs do on earth, but in the sea, because they are also scavengers like pigs. God in His wisdom has commanded man not to eat them.  The reasons for it, we are not sure. however, one thing is sure, if you eat pork or prawns, you are more likely to suffer health problems than if you don't eat them. (http://modernmanna.org/categories/Health-Articles/The-Danger-of-Eating-Pigs)

Most movies today encourage evil and teach us and our children the wrong things, so I am very careful what I watch because I value my family and their overall well-being. Without sounding over the top lol, certain television / hollywood media is used by corrupt people for corrupt purposes and other agencies in order to control people by desensitization, various forms of hypnotism and other visual audio emotional connections. Ultimately, this work is of the devil.



« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 09:04:47 PM by SwordOfGod »
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

Offline Andy S.

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #434 on: February 24, 2014, 12:06:14 AM »
Hey Sword, I will repeat what Sketchiii said: "why are we arguing about how grasshoppers walk when Lev 11:23 clearly says they have four feet regardless"? 

I feel so sorry for you the next time you see a grasshopper walk with your own eyes using all six feet.  However, like I said before, seeing a grasshopper using all six feet to walk with your own eyes in real life will not be enough for you.  You will probably chalk it up as a grasshopper sent from Satan or in PP's case, an atheistic grasshopper.

I just wanted to let the atheist/deist forum members know that I am sorry I plagiarized in my last post #430.  I don't know if this is considered plagiarism according to human standards but I said, "It almost makes just as much sense as god creating people with defects and then god telling these people with defects that they will profane his sanctuary if they approach the veil or altar with the defect that god created these people with".  I am sure a lot of you caught that I was pulling from the bible.  I did not put quotes around the words I used from a verse in Leviticus and I did not let anyone know the scripture reference. 

I am glad I apologized before anyone caught me red-handed "stealing" material from another author.  In my case, I was "stealing" from the god of gods according to Christians.  I don't want to look like a "thief" like Sword and the "founder" of his denomination, Ellen White.

I did not expect Sword to call me out on this because most Christians don't even know verses like this exist in the bible.  I should have wrote, "It almost makes just as much sense as god creating people with defects and then god telling these people with defects that they will 'profane' his 'sanctuary' if they approach the 'veil' or 'altar' with the 'defect' that god created these people with" (Lev. 21:23).  I don't know if this is considered plagiarism according to human standards but it is the god of god's standard I am worried about.

Sword, I pointed out to you that your god, Jesus, does NOT "know all things" so I'm sure he is unaware of what I even wrote.  Will you please tell him that I am sorry for possibly plagiarizing his holy book.  I hope this doesn't constitute a copyright infringement.  While you are talking with your god can you also please ask him why he would create people with defects only to degrade them by saying they are not allowed to approach the "veil" or "altar" because of the "defect" that he created these people with?

Thanks Sword.  I am sorry for disrespecting your god in my previous post.  I thought "daddy" was synonymous with "Father".  At least my four year old son thinks so.  Speaking of which, he wore me out today and I'm going to bed.  I will ask my same questions to you tomorrow but in a more respectful tone since I did not know your standard of disrespect for your god was to use the word "daddy".  Sorry Sword.     
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 12:08:57 AM by Andy S. »
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries, that have afflicted the human race, have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
~Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason)