Author Topic: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?  (Read 13982 times)

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #377 on: February 22, 2014, 06:17:22 AM »

First of all, the problem of circular reasoning is often found among scientists:

A '...geologist who has recognized the circularity problem is Dr. Ronald West, at Kansas State University.'

"Contrary to what most scientists write, the fossil record does not support the Darwinian theory of evolution because it is this theory (there are several) which we use to interpret the fossil record. By doing so, we are guilty of circular reasoning if we then say the fossil record supports this theory." (http://www.icr.org/article/94/)


I will continue to point out the grossly deceptive use of language (some might say, "lies") used by fundamentalist Christians. What  Dr. Ronald West said[1] does not stand up to examination.

If we look at Darwin's work, it was based upon his grandfather's general observations of living creatures. In Darwin's Theory too, we see that it is based upon on living species. It was from these living creatures that Darwin established the scientific truth of evolution. Read the book: it is enlightening.

Now if we look at Newton's discovery of gravitational laws, he too studied gravity in real time and, in real time, he reached his conclusion, but the Law of Gravity can be shown to be true at all times, obviously, including the past.

It was then left to others to have a look at Darwin's Theory and they found that it held true for the fossil evidence. So, Darwin's theory held true for fossils -> it is not "supported by fossils."

So Dawin's Theory is not supported by the fossil record, Darwin's Theory actually does the supporting. And now with recoverable DNA, we can show that this use of Dawin's Theory is valid

Can you explain why you come here and give us such deceptions? What is there to gain by cheating people? Is this what your God tells you to do?




 1. if indeed he said this because fundamentalist Christians stoop to what is known as "quote mining".
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Keko-in-the-box

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #378 on: February 22, 2014, 06:46:04 AM »
If he is a lesser god why Christians commit the idolatry of worshiping Jesus?

If they're the same God why pray to himself?

They must be two different people, (if we're not actually talking about whether he exists in the first place anyway!) I doubt god would have created himself to put himself on a cross and be killed... though thinking about all the other contradictory stuff in the bible.. I now have to wonder if he would do that for kicks. Also, would god even be able to die if he was Jesus? Wouldn't he instead just be able to summon something powerful to defend himself from harm? If he were Jesus, then that just opens up a whole other can of contradictions. Does that mean he pretended to be dead for a few days just for emphasis? :)

Offline Nam

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #379 on: February 22, 2014, 06:47:19 AM »
It's what his sect tells him to do.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

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Online Andy S.

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #380 on: February 22, 2014, 08:57:53 AM »

Can you explain why you come here and give us such deceptions? What is there to gain by cheating people? Is this what your God tells you to do?

Giving us such deceptions is possibly what his god is telling him to do.  His god seems to be deceptive himself.  In Ezekiel 20:25 we find evidence of his god being deceptive by saying, "I also gave them statutes what were not good and ordinances by which they could not live".  So, god might be telling him to be deceptive or he just might be following the example of his deceptive god.
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries, that have afflicted the human race, have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
~Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason)

Online Andy S.

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #381 on: February 22, 2014, 09:13:59 AM »
It's what his sect tells him to do.

-Nam

As far as the charge of plagiarism earlier on in this thread, you could be right in that being deceptive is what his sect is telling S.O.G. to do.  I don't know if they teach how-to plagiarize as a Saturday school lesson but there is evidence that the "founder" of SDA (according to S.O.G.), Ellen White was a plagiarist.

Link:    http://www.isitso.org/guide/sdaplag.html

Another link states, "The ultimate source of Seventh-day Adventist theology is not God inspiring new truths to White, but plagiarizing (copying) J. N. Andrews".  Check out the "comparison exhibits" of "The Great Controversy" to "Life Incidents".  Kind of looks like what S.O.G. deceptively did huh?

Link:    http://www.bible.ca/7-WL-exhibits-Great-Contro.htm 

Conclusion:  Being deceptive and giving us such deceptions might not be S.O.G's fault.  He has possibly fallen victim to the brainwashing that is going on within his sect.  However, maybe it's not even brainwashing that is going on within the sect. Maybe there is a supernatural explanation to all of this.  Maybe the spirit of plagiarism is prevalent within the SDA denomination.

Gotta run.  I'll be back on the Lord's day......errrrr......Sunday.  Have a good weekend! 
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries, that have afflicted the human race, have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
~Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason)

Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #382 on: February 22, 2014, 09:17:30 AM »
Andy S

Quote
A grasshopper walks on its front four legs and the back legs are specialized for leaping -- they aren't generally used for walking. (SwordofGod quote)


Funny.  Your god, not science, has given us humans this great tool called Youtube to prove to a christian on an atheist forum that the christian is wrong.

Have you not studied the Anatomy of a Grasshopper from a Scientific perspective?  Dont answer that because I know the answer. Its NO, you haven't. So, while youre away, you'd also be better off studying a bit of high school biology as well.



http://www.biologycorner.com/worksheets/grasshopper_teacher.html.  Please see in this teachers guide, under the heading "Pre-Lab Questions" the title "Anatomy of the Grasshopper" question 9, which clearly says there are 1 pair of jumping legs and 2 pair of walking legs.


You have again failed to quote scientific fact.  God of the Bible in Leviticus already knew this, hence the distinction in the verses below which you so kindly provided for this forum of knowledge.

Leviticus 11:20-23 states:

20 ‘All the winged insects that walk on all fours are detestable to you. 21 Yet these you may eat among all the winged insects which walk on all fours: those which have above their feet jointed legs with which to jump on the earth. 22 These of them you may eat: the locust in its kinds, and the devastating locust in its kinds, and the cricket in its kinds, and the grasshopper in its kinds. 23 But all other winged insects which are four-footed are detestable to you.

Thats biological fact. Its also happens to be the voice of God.

Quote
I'll get back to you on your other claims later.  I'm going away for a one day/night vacation.  I'm going to read the whole bible again cover to cover and try to find the phrase "Hypostatic Union".  It seems to be an important doctrine so I'm sure I'll find these words in the bible right?  You know -- like the word "Trinity" which is such an essential doctrine to the Christian faith.  Anyway, I'm going to meditate on every verse that has the phrase "Hypostatic Union" in it and I will get back to you.

Well, firstly, if you cant read and understand your own biology textbooks that clearly stipulate 1 pair of jumping legs, and 2 pair of walking legs, then how can you understand the more deeper questions in life?  First of all learn to drink milk before attempting more solid foods. That makes sense doesn't it?

Grasshoppers have 2 pair of walking legs (Leviticus 11:20)  http://www.biologyjunction.com/grasshopper_dissection.htm
Grasshoppers have 1 pair of jumping legs (Leviticus 11:21) http://www.biologyjunction.com/grasshopper_dissection.htm

Grasshoppers have 2 pair of walking legs (Leviticus 11:20) See Part 5 at http://hluke.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/2/8/13288821/5-10_grasshopper_dissection.pdf
Grasshoppers have 1 pair of jumping legs (Leviticus 11:21) See Part 5 at  http://hluke.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/2/8/13288821/5-10_grasshopper_dissection.pdf

As for the Trinity, the concept of the trinity is in the Bible.  The word trinity isnt. Thats because in order to teach a certain doctrine, we identify it in simple terms, i.e, such as one all encompassing word.  You see, theology is more logical than you think.  The same is with the Hypostatic Union, it is a word to label and identify a doctrine which we believe the bible teaches. This is a perfect example of where silence in the bible does not equal non existence because the concept is there to be seen.

This is why I love the Bible.  Thank you for taking the time to challenge it so objectively.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 09:20:35 AM by SwordOfGod »
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

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Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #383 on: February 22, 2014, 09:30:03 AM »

First of all, the problem of circular reasoning is often found among scientists:

A '...geologist who has recognized the circularity problem is Dr. Ronald West, at Kansas State University.'

"Contrary to what most scientists write, the fossil record does not support the Darwinian theory of evolution because it is this theory (there are several) which we use to interpret the fossil record. By doing so, we are guilty of circular reasoning if we then say the fossil record supports this theory." (http://www.icr.org/article/94/)


I will continue to point out the grossly deceptive use of language (some might say, "lies") used by fundamentalist Christians. What  Dr. Ronald West said[1] does not stand up to examination.

If we look at Darwin's work, it was based upon his grandfather's general observations of living creatures. In Darwin's Theory too, we see that it is based upon on living species. It was from these living creatures that Darwin established the scientific truth of evolution. Read the book: it is enlightening.

Now if we look at Newton's discovery of gravitational laws, he too studied gravity in real time and, in real time, he reached his conclusion, but the Law of Gravity can be shown to be true at all times, obviously, including the past.

It was then left to others to have a look at Darwin's Theory and they found that it held true for the fossil evidence. So, Darwin's theory held true for fossils -> it is not "supported by fossils."

So Dawin's Theory is not supported by the fossil record, Darwin's Theory actually does the supporting. And now with recoverable DNA, we can show that this use of Dawin's Theory is valid

Can you explain why you come here and give us such deceptions? What is there to gain by cheating people? Is this what your God tells you to do?
 1. if indeed he said this because fundamentalist Christians stoop to what is known as "quote mining".

The only deceptions here are your very subjective opinions presented in Humpty Dumpty fashion.  They are not based on factual evidence. Could you ask any more subjectively loaded questions in your post?  That way we will know Atheism is certainly false.

Thanks.
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

Offline Nam

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #384 on: February 22, 2014, 09:45:13 AM »
SOG,

You're a joke. I get this from your defensive nature in anyone who contradicts anything you say. You seem worse than skeptic, and from me: that's saying something.

There's no need for any of us to answer questions you ask us because you do it for us. And it's pointless to ask you questions because you'll only answer those who stroke your ego. By the way, those who are doing that are only doing that to get you to answer their questions which you're not actually doing as evident by your replies.

It seems your only purpose here is to preach, evangelize, and mock--which I really have no problem with but if you think you're better at this game than some of us are, you'll find out that you're not.

We're not as stupid as you look.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #385 on: February 22, 2014, 11:20:31 AM »
Sword

I just read up on Seventh Day adventist eschatology, and this is something I say to every theist who comes here claiming that the end is near. Even if only sort of.

(This is a repeat, so yes, regulars, you've read this before, in one form or another. Because Sword is not our first visitor big on the end times...)

Sword, I hope you live a long and fruitful life. But when you are lying on your death bed, you will notice that JC did not return in your lifetime. I, an atheist, am telling you that it won't happen. So when you are dying, remember, an atheist told you that it wouldn't happen.

Now your job now is to go tell your kids about the silly atheist who thinks that JC isn't returning soon. Everyone needs to laugh about this. However, after your children have lived a long and fruitful life, and as it is time for them to die, they too will notice that Jesus did not return.

As will your grandchildren, your great grandchildren, ad infinitum.

It ain't gonna happen. Because none of it is true.

There is no need for you to respond to this. Just don't forget it.

And don't ever say that you weren't told.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #386 on: February 22, 2014, 11:45:38 AM »
SOG,

You're a joke. I get this from your defensive nature in anyone who contradicts anything you say. You seem worse than skeptic, and from me: that's saying something.

There's no need for any of us to answer questions you ask us because you do it for us. And it's pointless to ask you questions because you'll only answer those who stroke your ego. By the way, those who are doing that are only doing that to get you to answer their questions which you're not actually doing as evident by your replies.

It seems your only purpose here is to preach, evangelize, and mock--which I really have no problem with but if you think you're better at this game than some of us are, you'll find out that you're not.

We're not as stupid as you look.

-Nam

Nambo...

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

Offline Nam

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #387 on: February 22, 2014, 12:00:00 PM »
You're proving my point every time you do that.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #388 on: February 22, 2014, 12:27:34 PM »
You're proving my point every time you do that.

-Nam

Nam

1. Ive used external evidence outside of Christianity (Biological science teaching manuals and website links)

2. And internal evidence from Christianity (Verses from the Holy Bible which an atheist quoted in their argument to me).

3. Ive used both objective and subjective arguments to prove my points. 

4. If that makes my replies so funny, how much more funny are yours than mine?

5. Where is your objectivity or external evidence and the objectively constructed point by point arguments to prove you belief is correct?

6. Why the swearing and personal insults and name calling? 

When you stop taking things so personally, and realize its just a forum discussion with diverse views, then maybe you will enjoy it more. In the meantime, take a chill pill.

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

Offline Nam

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #389 on: February 22, 2014, 01:02:52 PM »
1. Ive used external evidence outside of Christianity (Biological science teaching manuals and website links)

Links you've used:

Religious

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/god/son/
http://archives.adventistreview.org/2004-1538/story1.htmlhttp://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/denominational-statements-on-the-sabbath/id/982/catholic.aspx
http://www.little-book.org
http://www.adventist.org/
http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/
http://adventist-defense-league.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/uncomfortable-questions-posed-to.html
http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/america-bible-prophecy.html
http://www.adventistonline.com/group/chineseadventistsaroundtheworld/forum/topics/china-in-bible-prophecy
http://www.e-n.org.uk/p-473-False-prophecy-today.htm
http://holybible.com
http://www.danielbibleprophecy.org/ten_divisions_of_rome.htm
http://www.remnantofgod.org/Trueprophets.htm
http://www.whiteestate.org/books/bhp/bhpc06.html
http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/if-jesus-god-why-did-he-not-know-hour-his-return
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0311.htm Hebrew Bible

In rfrc To Religion

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28398-2005Apr5.html

Non Religious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Coates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Roman_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101002081655AAqEY6A
http://www.biologycorner.com/worksheets/grasshopper_teacher.html

Wow! Look at that: 5 not (technically) links dealing with religion, all the rest RELIGION!

You lost that one.

Quote
2. And internal evidence from Christianity (Verses from the Holy Bible which an atheist quoted in their argument to me).

The Bible can't be evidence of itself--it's retarded to use a book to prove itself.

Quote
3. Ive used both objective and subjective arguments to prove my points.

No, you haven't. If you had we'd treat you more like old Church Guy than every other Christian that comes here.

Quote
4. If that makes my replies so funny, how much more funny are yours than mine?

At least mine are relevant and honest.

Quote
5. Where is your objectivity or external evidence and the objectively constructed point by point arguments to prove you belief is correct?

See, that's the difference: I don't claim it is. I may adhere to it but I don't make claims about it.

Quote
6. Why the swearing and personal insults and name calling?

I'm an asshole. Accept it, I do, and others here do.

Quote
When you stop taking things so personally, and realize its just a forum discussion with diverse views, then maybe you will enjoy it more. In the meantime, take a chill pill.

I haven't taken anything personally, you wouldn't know the first thing about what is personal for me. You're just something to play with.

-Nam
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 01:24:48 PM by Nam »
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline voodoo child

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #390 on: February 22, 2014, 01:32:46 PM »
End of times predictions get very old after a while. maybe you should take up a new hobby.
Like what to do with the money the SDA rakes in every year.  Oh I don't know, feed the poor open a lab,  find the cure for cancer, teach your offspring to think for themselves. 

Short list of failed predictions.
 http://michaelsherlockauthor.blogspot.ca/2013/10/the-armageddon-self-fulfilling-prophecy.html

Quote
These eschatological beliefs rely on vague and ambiguous language, as a kind of passive component for survival, whilst they are combined with the active component, belief, or more accurately, the rationalizations, adaptational strategies and distorted cognitive processes, which accompany belief in order to protect it.  With these active and passive components combined, such eschatological beliefs are real in the mind of the believer; at least until they fail and even then, some believers will not be deterred by the obvious failure of a believed prophecy.

Although, some YouTube vids, about end times are quite funny. It would probably take about a month, watching 24 hours a day to watch them all. 

pay close attention at 22seconds




Since then, I think there have been dozens of predictions every year from various cultures all over the planet.  These fear tactics do not bring more converts; they sound more like the ramblings of bullies.
As far as I am concerned the future is unwritten.

Do you actually sit across from your family and belch this stuff out SOG?

The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #391 on: February 22, 2014, 05:13:11 PM »
1. Ive used external evidence outside of Christianity (Biological science teaching manuals and website links)

Links you've used:

Religious

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/god/son/
http://archives.adventistreview.org/2004-1538/story1.htmlhttp://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/denominational-statements-on-the-sabbath/id/982/catholic.aspx
http://www.little-book.org
http://www.adventist.org/
http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/
http://adventist-defense-league.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/uncomfortable-questions-posed-to.html
http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/america-bible-prophecy.html
http://www.adventistonline.com/group/chineseadventistsaroundtheworld/forum/topics/china-in-bible-prophecy
http://www.e-n.org.uk/p-473-False-prophecy-today.htm
http://holybible.com
http://www.danielbibleprophecy.org/ten_divisions_of_rome.htm
http://www.remnantofgod.org/Trueprophets.htm
http://www.whiteestate.org/books/bhp/bhpc06.html
http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/if-jesus-god-why-did-he-not-know-hour-his-return
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0311.htm Hebrew Bible

In rfrc To Religion

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28398-2005Apr5.html

Non Religious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Coates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Roman_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101002081655AAqEY6A
http://www.biologycorner.com/worksheets/grasshopper_teacher.html

Wow! Look at that: 5 not (technically) links dealing with religion, all the rest RELIGION!

You lost that one.

Quote
2. And internal evidence from Christianity (Verses from the Holy Bible which an atheist quoted in their argument to me).

The Bible can't be evidence of itself--it's retarded to use a book to prove itself.

Quote
3. Ive used both objective and subjective arguments to prove my points.

No, you haven't. If you had we'd treat you more like old Church Guy than every other Christian that comes here.

Quote
4. If that makes my replies so funny, how much more funny are yours than mine?

At least mine are relevant and honest.

Quote
5. Where is your objectivity or external evidence and the objectively constructed point by point arguments to prove you belief is correct?

See, that's the difference: I don't claim it is. I may adhere to it but I don't make claims about it.

Quote
6. Why the swearing and personal insults and name calling?

I'm an asshole. Accept it, I do, and others here do.

Quote
When you stop taking things so personally, and realize its just a forum discussion with diverse views, then maybe you will enjoy it more. In the meantime, take a chill pill.

I haven't taken anything personally, you wouldn't know the first thing about what is personal for me. You're just something to play with.

-Nam



Nam, the only self confessed asshole Im dealing with, is a clown who cant count.

More to the point, external evidence for my argument with Andy S about the Grasshopper having 1 Pair of Jumping Legs and 2 Pair of Walking Legs, was conducted using 3 (THREE) sources of external evidence outside of Christianity, compared with only 1 (ONE) Christian source which I had used, the Bible.  Here they are below.

Fact that I Proved Against Andy S:  "Grasshoppers have 1 Pair of Jumping Legs and 2 Pair of Walking Legs As Described in the Holy Bible"

External Source 1. http://www.biologycorner.com/worksheets/grasshopper_teacher.html
External Source 2. http://www.biologyjunction.com/grasshopper_dissection.htm
External Source 3. http://hluke.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/2/8/13288821/5-10_grasshopper_dissection.pdf

Here are just 2 (TWO) of my External Sources you have deliberately not listed in the so-called 'non-religious' section.  Totalling 7 sources alltogether for your 'count' if you can call it that, thus far.

External Source 2. http://www.biologyjunction.com/grasshopper_dissection.htm
External Source 3. http://hluke.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/2/8/13288821/5-10_grasshopper_dissection.pdf

THESES SOURCES ARE MISSING... NOWHERE TO BE FOUND IN YOUR ARGUMENT. 

Therefore, like most Atheist arguments, your ridiculous and incorrect fallacious argument lacks evidence and thus any power of reason. 

I dont have to insult you or call you an idiot as you like doing to me because its so easy to make you look like a complete pink Darth Vaders helmet.  All I do is just pull your very weak arguments apart and expose the error of your ways.

Rethink your approach.. its simply not working with me.  Not all the strategies of self proclaimed assholes work on everyone... Infact I notice it when you get annoyed, because then I know what Ive said is the truth and that my arguments have had an impact on you. Sooner or later your asshole bad boy thing is going to backfire.  So just be nice, be cool and relax.

However, for the record, your posts... since you have selectively and subjectively left my non-Christian External Sources out, it makes me wonder what other facts you have selectively left out as well in all your other ramblings of utter twaddle.  It only proves one thing.. that even in your so-called objective analysis of the sources Ive used, you still couldnt use that same supposed objectivity for my External Sources.  Now THATS funny! You dug your own hole... maybe thats why you call yourself asshole? Moron.



« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 05:15:21 PM by SwordOfGod »
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #392 on: February 22, 2014, 05:28:16 PM »
The video of the grasshopper with six legs, clearly using them all to walk, will not convince the religious believers that the bible is wrong. They will either ignore it, like Sword here, or will say it is faked, or that it is only one mutant grasshopper and no other grasshopper in the world walks with their back legs. Nothing will convince them, not even seeing the evidence with their own eyes. Remember that the bible is always right. No matter what.

When the real world, historical records, common sense, biological facts, geological evidence, medical science, museum collections, crime scene investigations, the fossil record and your own eyeballs all disagree with the bible, the bible is still true. And you cannot expect rationality to penetrate the powerful need for the believer to be right.

Scary, because if that is so, then religious believers can convince themselves of any number of crazy things, and even act on them, which we have seen--Jim Jones, Rastafarians, Israeli Zionists, Mormons, Christian Identity, the Taliban, snake handlers, that Texas cult guy,[1] Hale Bopp, Nation of Islam, Scientology, anyone who cuts into children's genitals for religious reasons, JW's, SDA.

My grandfather was SDA. We lived with him when I was a teen, so I know what we are dealing with here. Narrow-minded judgmental conservatism, Loma Linda food products, church on Saturday, and lots of irrational thinking.  :P
 1.  the one with the arsenal who got killed in his compound by government agents--I know, but still, which one?  &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #393 on: February 22, 2014, 07:20:43 PM »
The video of the grasshopper with six legs, clearly using them all to walk, will not convince the religious believers that the bible is wrong. They will either ignore it, like Sword here, or will say it is faked, or that it is only one mutant grasshopper and no other grasshopper in the world walks with their back legs. Nothing will convince them, not even seeing the evidence with their own eyes. Remember that the bible is always right. No matter what.

When the real world, historical records, common sense, biological facts, geological evidence, medical science, museum collections, crime scene investigations, the fossil record and your own eyeballs all disagree with the bible, the bible is still true. And you cannot expect rationality to penetrate the powerful need for the believer to be right.

Scary, because if that is so, then religious believers can convince themselves of any number of crazy things, and even act on them, which we have seen--Jim Jones, Rastafarians, Israeli Zionists, Mormons, Christian Identity, the Taliban, snake handlers, that Texas cult guy,[1] Hale Bopp, Nation of Islam, Scientology, anyone who cuts into children's genitals for religious reasons, JW's, SDA.

My grandfather was SDA. We lived with him when I was a teen, so I know what we are dealing with here. Narrow-minded judgmental conservatism, Loma Linda food products, church on Saturday, and lots of irrational thinking.  :P
 1.  the one with the arsenal who got killed in his compound by government agents--I know, but still, which one?  &)
W

Theists have to deal with A-Theists who deny science, yet proclaim science when it suits them as their justification of no god, when in reality, science shows that God is the Creator and the All-Knowing Supreme King of Kings who is to be Worshiped and Adored by all mankind.

Leviticus 11:20-23 shows just how wrong A-Theists are in their analysis of the biological facts presented. Just as a reminder,  the Anatomy of the Grasshopper clearly states that there are 2 (TWO) Pair of Walking Legs, and 1 (ONE) Jumping Pair of Legs.  How the grasshopper uses those legs is defined by biological science, not by a non-scientific YouTube video that explains nothing in human language, but which is re-interpreted by fools who claim "there is no god" Psalm 14:1.  As a Seventh-day Adventist, I adhere to known scientific fact when it comes to the study of Anatomy, because science has its place in theological study, but not evolution, which is nothing but a weak hypothesis. 

Again, here is the evidence.  Fig.1 shows very clearly that the grasshopper has exactly 2 pair of walking legs, and 1 pair of jumping legs.


Fig.1


Now thats what I call science. Notice how above, the biological anatomy diagram of the grasshopper also makes the distinction, exactly as the bible does between 'walking legs' and 'jumping legs'  Isn't that interesting! The Bible is therefore right and all others opposing this are not only wrong, but in grave biological error.

Source: (http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/magazine/mj02/images/grasshopperdiagram.jpg)

Just for humour sake, I wll also add another source.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6757677_structure-grasshoppers.html

It says clearly here "The thorax, or midsection, is where the wings and legs of the grasshopper are situated. The two front pairs of jointed legs are smaller than the third pair of hind legs, and these two sets of front legs are used for holding food and for walking. The hind legs are used for hopping and jumping"

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/about_6757677_structure-grasshoppers.html#ixzz2u6EStnbT

There you have it... Every objective external source I look at, backs the Bible up as correct.

A-Theists love to convince themselves their is no god, so they come up with weak arguments like this only to be crucified by the very discipline they claim to support them.  If you cannot see these clear proofs, then you are blinded by spiritual darkness. 

Seventh-day Adventism is the most objective form of thought, unlike A-Theism.  I prove this by using external sources and aback it up with facts. Is there no one who can challenge me here?


PS: Is this comment about Adventists considered judgmental or not?  Notice I do not (need to) apply a loaded question. There are too many double standards in A-Theism for it to be objective enough as a viable way of thinking. Talk about ironic.

 "Narrow-minded judgmental conservatism, Loma Linda food products, church on Saturday, and lots of irrational thinking.  :P"

Imagine if everybody thought like that, the planet would be full of bigots.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 08:19:09 PM by SwordOfGod »
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #394 on: February 22, 2014, 07:30:06 PM »
Why the hell are we talking about grasshoppers legs?

They only hop when they are threatened, otherwise (here at least) they walk everywhere (or fly)...
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #395 on: February 22, 2014, 08:11:36 PM »
I think Sword got us on this one. The bible must be right. Here, for instance, is a YouTube video showing a grasshopper faking using his rear legs to walk because he is an atheist. But otherwise, it never happens.

Realizing that he might be being watched by a theist, he thinks about it for about 12 seconds, and then fakes it as he starts walking about, pretending to use his rear legs. He's one smart atheist grasshopper.

He tried. But Sword is clearly right, because of, you know, what the bible says.


Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #396 on: February 22, 2014, 08:27:50 PM »
Seventh-day Adventism is the most objective form of thought, unlike A-Theism.  I prove this by using external sources and aback it up with facts. Is there no one who can challenge me here?

Nope, we can't. As long as you're the one making up all the assumptions and claiming them to be true, there isn't a thing we can do to ward off your total lack of rational thoughts. You, as a S-e-v-e-n-t-h D-a-y-A-d-v-e-n-t-i-s-t, thinking that you have all the answers, are not here to discuss anything. Rather, you are here to tell us what to think, because it is important that we be just like you, otherwise your world will be fragile and suspect. So you're working on that by trying to convince us via typical S-e-v-e-n-t-h D-a-y-A-d-v-e-n-t-i-s-t non-thought that you are right about everything, and that, conversely, we are wrong about everything.

Of course, that you're bugging us with bugs shows that you ain't got much, but hey, go with your strong points. Because you weak ones are pathetic.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #397 on: February 22, 2014, 08:29:54 PM »
By the way, my grandfather was a S-e-v-e-n-t-h D-a-y-A-d-v-e-n-t-i-s-t, who died of a heart attack while arguing the bible with a Jehovah's Witness who had the temerity to ring his doorbell.

Kind of makes you wonder whose side god is on.
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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #398 on: February 22, 2014, 09:01:59 PM »
I think Sword got us on this one. The bible must be right. Here, for instance, is a YouTube video showing a grasshopper faking using his rear legs to walk because he is an atheist. But otherwise, it never happens.

Realizing that he might be being watched by a theist, he thinks about it for about 12 seconds, and then fakes it as he starts walking about, pretending to use his rear legs. He's one smart atheist grasshopper.

He tried. But Sword is clearly right, because of, you know, what the bible says.



WTF kind of bug is that!?

Quote
  This giant, slow moving grasshopper’s bright orange, yellow and red colors are a warning that it contains toxins and will make any potential predator sick.   If for any reason, you fail to heed the color warning and pick it up, the grasshopper makes a loud hissing noise and secretes an irritating foul-smelling foamy spray.
 

Venomous giant grass hoppers in Florida? The world aint safe no more.

Quote
Lubbers seem to be unaffected by most insecticides, and according to experts at the University of Florida, if they become a garden pest, the best way to get rid of them is to stamp on them, or ‘hand pick’ them and drown them in a bucket of soapy water.

Is this a new thing? A giant orange venomous grasshopper that is immune to insecticides? I don’t recall hearing about them or anything like that in the US. I thought scary bugs like that only existed in Africa and Australia!

http://www.wildflorida.com/articles/Floridas_Giant_Orange_Grasshoppers.php

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #399 on: February 22, 2014, 09:07:11 PM »
^^^ Those little buggers are Nam's favorite breakfast food. Why else would a guy live in that state if there were not any culinary advantages.  ;D

I decided to stay out of the south as much as possible after seeing a caterpillar that was literally the size of a hot dog. Yes, it was more nutritious, but wowsers, was it ugly.  And, coincidentally, it didn't walk on its rear legs either.

Just kidding about all those things. God made it, Adam named it. We don't need to know anything else. That would make our brains hurt.
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Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #400 on: February 22, 2014, 09:42:45 PM »
I think Sword got us on this one. The bible must be right. Here, for instance, is a YouTube video showing a grasshopper faking using his rear legs to walk because he is an atheist. But otherwise, it never happens.

Realizing that he might be being watched by a theist, he thinks about it for about 12 seconds, and then fakes it as he starts walking about, pretending to use his rear legs. He's one smart atheist grasshopper.

He tried. But Sword is clearly right, because of, you know, what the bible says.




No matter how many videos you show, Biology is always correct. Here is a video of a grasshopper walking on 4 legs.. so to get a conclusive answer for all, we must turn to science and the Bible, but since youre not objective, I'll just quote from science.



It is clearly stated in the International Journal of Latest Research in Science and Technology that grasshoppers are characterized by long hind legs designed for locomotion by jumping. No matter how many external scientific sources that read the same as the bible, you cant show me one scientific text to back your position, only a video which has not got any scientific credentials. The video you have shown is inadmissible as evidence without objective scientific interpretation. So here we have a situation.. I have an even stronger argument than you.  Not only do I have the texts on my side, both scientific and biblical, but I now have a video just like yours which can be used rightly or wrongly, for the opposing argument.  You however, only have a video interpreted subjectively, whereas I have a nice selection of objective evidence backing up my claims with the video I havent tried to interpret myself in a subjective way.  I let the External Objective Evidence interpret the video for me.  Here I go again... using those Adventist thought processes which ensure external evidence interprets things which could be interpreted incorrectly by human vanity and prejudice. Hence why I am a Seventh-day Adventist.  In the same way, we use the same principles to test everything fairly, such as "who is a prophet" as seen in my earlier posts.

http://www.mnkjournals.com/ijlrst_files/Download/Vol%202%20Issue%203/2-7003-Khalid%20Anwar.pdf


« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 09:45:57 PM by SwordOfGod »
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #401 on: February 22, 2014, 10:15:52 PM »
I'm not going to argue the point. Yes, a grasshopper's hind set of legs is clearly evolved as specialized jumping appendages. Even if they might use them when they are walking.

However, looking at these past videos, I can't help but notice that while the grasshoppers which are, indeed, using their hind legs in an ambulatory manner seem to be getting along quite smoothly and comfortably, the one in the last video seems to be wobbling about and dragging his hind legs almost as though they had been injured or something. It is definitely looking a but rough, and taking much longer about getting from point a to point b than the grasshoppers in the first couple of clips.

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #402 on: February 22, 2014, 10:25:13 PM »
Ok, why are we arguing about how grasshoppers walk when Lev 11:23 clearly says they have four feet regardless  :-\?

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #403 on: February 23, 2014, 12:03:18 AM »
You are absolutely right, Sword. The bible is, indeed, partially right. That one time.

Don't be so impressed.
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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #404 on: February 23, 2014, 12:05:54 AM »
Oh, by the way, snakes do eat dirt too. Whenever they eat a dirty grasshopper that doesn't' even frickin' know how to walk, that dirt is what the bible is talking about. It doesn't say that they don't eat food too. It is only mentioning the dirt thing because that is more important to bring up than any other factor in all of reality at that moment. Literary license and all that crap.
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Offline voodoo child

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #405 on: February 23, 2014, 12:06:09 AM »
what came before the grasshopper?   
 
 &)
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee