Author Topic: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?  (Read 10929 times)

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Offline Nam

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #232 on: February 18, 2014, 02:05:12 AM »
Obviously the fictional character Humpty Dumpty never made you quite as angry as the historical Jesus did.

How silly it would be if I were angry at things that relatively can't be proven to actually exist. Not my department, that would be yours.

You come here, post a spammers propaganda preaching comment to a topic in which you actually do not address the OP but copy/paste triviality from a website as a reply probably because you couldn't create a topic to do so.

If I am angry at anything or anyone it would be you you idiot.

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I can't speak for Nam

Apparently you can't even speak for yourself based on your first post which is copy/paste.

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but Jesus has never made me angry. Now folks who kill in his name, they piss me off big time. But not the kid himself. His never existing kind of protects him in that department.

Please learn to quote. There's a test area.

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #233 on: February 18, 2014, 02:23:37 AM »
Would it make sense for you daughter to be saved from the sins of your past? Yes, of course. Your personality traits are passed down to your daughter, so if you have certain troublesome habits, its likely she will develop them as well.  Would you like to save her from those? As with hereditary diseases, there are hereditary personality / character flaws which are passed down to our children.  Sin is passed down from Adam and Eve throughout the world.  We do not inherit their guilt for their sins, but are guilty for our own due to inherent weakness on our part.  That's why we need a Saviour, to be our strength in our weakness, to be our Saviour from sin by the power of God. This saving power redeems our lives from destruction if we accept it.  I would invite you to accept that truth.

There is no truth there. Your generalizations demonstrate a lack of knowledge in the genetics and psychology department, and your insistence that our lack of perfection is due to something besides the fact that there is no perfect for us to be is painful to imagine.

God stories such as yours are a sad reminder that some humans live their entire life hoping things are better than they appear, and to do so they have to make up excuses for everything that isn't as they want it to be. And too, they have to pretend that they have a future past death where things will be even better.

Don't ask me to join in on such delusions. I've got a life to live and folks lille you keep trying to mess it up. I don't get to live after death and I dislike needing to take time to fight against those that are so, so wrong. Such as yourself.

Not only is life not supposed to be simple, we are also not supposed to pretend that it is. But religions such as your own, which couldn't face reality if it was covered in marshmallows and delivered by cartoon squirrels, somehow manage to mess things up by ignorance alone.  Which I would think impossible, if I didn't keep seeing it with my own two eyes.

We're all wrong about a whole bunch of things. The difference is, those of us who think a little bit more than you know better than to build monuments to our ignorance in the form of churches. Let alone publish our flawed thoughts in a book and call it good.
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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #234 on: February 18, 2014, 06:36:01 AM »
Indeed, PP. This sort of 'recruiting' using fear as the preferred weapon is vile. The fact is that this religion, like all the others, is man-made and without any truth in it as far as its claims of the supernatural and deities. Sure Christianity has some good morals embedded in it, but we don't need the religion to get the morals - they are common-sense really, 

Of course, Sword, if you could demonstrate the claims you make, not with and ancient book but with actual evidence, we might take things more seriously but as it is, it just sounds like fairy tales designed to get people paying money to churches as protection money.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Nam

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #235 on: February 18, 2014, 07:24:51 AM »
No it doesn't. Anyone, or thing, who uses what they say is "good" (whether others agree or not, irrelevant) and use that as a tool of converting by force then it's a guise, and nothing more. On the surface it "looks good" but underneath it's all sinister.

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Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #236 on: February 18, 2014, 02:51:35 PM »
Nam,

The quotes you attribute to me are not made by me, but by ParkingPlaces on page 8 of this discussion, the so-called very intelligent fish brain 'professor'. It was he who claimed he couldn't speak for you, blah blah blah. So, get your facts right and stop being such a Namby Pamby cry baby.  In response to your continued abusive language toward me, the only silly people here are the abusive hypocritical and godless swine who speak according to their own self destructive condition and attempt to inflict it upon others as they have nothing positive to contribute.

As for the copy and paste etc, etc.. change the record... you have hands or hooves? Not quite sure what stage of the evolution process you claim to be at, if any.


Wheels...


Protection racket?  Youd have to explain what you mean by that for me to answer it as best I can.


Willie...

What you said about my post earlier, regarding 'Original Sin' is incorrect since what I described is not the doctrine of Original Sin at all.  We reject the concept of Original Sin which states man is guilty for Adams sin and man bears Adams weakness. I stated that we are not guilty for Adams sin, but we have inherent weakness, thus a tendancy to sin and break Gods Law.  Original Sin is viewed differently by different denominations.  I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. 




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For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible



"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #237 on: February 18, 2014, 03:01:41 PM »
We reject the concept of Original Sin which states man is guilty for Adams sin and man bears Adams weakness. I stated that we are not guilty for Adams sin, but we have inherent weakness, thus a tendancy to sin and break Gods Law.  Original Sin is viewed differently by different denominations.  I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. 

So you know better than the bible, congratulations.

Which other parts of the bible do you reject? Enlighten me with your all knowingness.
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Offline Astreja

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #238 on: February 18, 2014, 03:21:37 PM »
*snip* *snip* *snip*

*SHRED*

No Talking Snake™ arrived at My home this morning.  Accordingly, SwordOfGod, your truthiness claim for the Bible has been rejected and your page in the Book of Life has been destroyed.

Now quit it with the playground insults and explain yourself in language more appropriate to a civil debate.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #239 on: February 18, 2014, 03:41:30 PM »
Nam,

The quotes you attribute to me are not made by me, but by ParkingPlaces on page 8 of this discussion, the so-called very intelligent fish brain 'professor'. It was he who claimed he couldn't speak for you, blah blah blah. So, get your facts right and stop being such a Namby Pamby cry baby.

If my reply #232 is not your words, that's not my fault. As you can see in the first quote, it has your user name as quoted. I didn't insert that, I'm on a phone, I can't. Either the website fucked up, or PP did, so, if those aren't your words, not my fault that's how it quoted therefore not me being a "cry baby" you moron.

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In response to your continued abusive language toward me, the only silly people here are the abusive hypocritical and godless swine who speak according to their own self destructive condition and attempt to inflict it upon others as they have nothing positive to contribute.

Hypocrite much? I'm only abusive when others are first. You were abusive on your first post. Copy/pasting and preaching is abuse. Your first post is both of those. Also, you didn't reply to the OP, you spammed a comment to a topic that you probably thought best fit your spam.

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As for the copy and paste etc, etc.. change the record... you have hands or hooves? Not quite sure what stage of the evolution process you claim to be at, if any.

I only claim you're a moron, other than that: I claim nothing.

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #240 on: February 18, 2014, 03:44:07 PM »
What you said about my post earlier, regarding 'Original Sin' is incorrect since what I described is not the doctrine of Original Sin at all.  We reject the concept of Original Sin which states man is guilty for Adams sin and man bears Adams weakness. I stated that we are not guilty for Adams sin, but we have inherent weakness, thus a tendancy to sin and break Gods Law.  Original Sin is viewed differently by different denominations.  I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. 

Why didn't god just nip this 'sin tendency' thing in the bud?  Perhaps by divinely stripping that 'sin tendency' in Eve's first (and second and third, etc) born?  Or maybe enacting the Jesus-salvation plan way early in the history of mankind?  Or maybe by making the nature of procreation such that things like 'sin tendency' do not get passed down?  Or maybe by not giving Adam and Eve this 'sin tendency' thing in the first place?
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #241 on: February 18, 2014, 11:19:07 PM »
Telling a person  that they have a problem and you have the solution, but if they don't admit that they have the problem and accept your solution, something bad will happen to them = protection racket.

Nice daughter you have there. Too bad she inherited original sin from Adam and Eve. Would be terrible is something happened to her. I can help you with that, otherwise she might burn forever in eternal flame= protection racket.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #242 on: February 19, 2014, 09:26:59 AM »
I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. 

You know they are an end-times cult, right?  Like, "then end is nigh!  We shall hide out in caves while the world burns, and come back out when jesus H appears!"  Spinoff of Millerites.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #243 on: February 19, 2014, 11:33:52 AM »
^^^Yes, US-based "Jesus will return soon" type church; similar time period, cultural influences and antecedents as the JW's.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Andy S.

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #244 on: February 19, 2014, 11:35:37 AM »
Sin is passed down from Adam and Eve throughout the world.  We do not inherit their guilt for their sins, but are guilty for our own due to inherent weakness on our part.  That's why we need a Saviour, to be our strength in our weakness, to be our Saviour from sin by the power of God.

Hey SwordOfGod, welcome to the forum!

You say that sin is passed down from Adam and Eve but people today do not "inherit their guilt" for their sins.  Don't you think it is wrong of your god to have people today avoid the guilt of Adam and Eve's original sin but still have to bear their punishment?  I mean, we still have women today who are paying for the punishment of Eve's sin through the pain of childbirth.  Women don't inherit Eve's guilt but inherit Eve's punishment through painful childbirth.  Do you see how some people (like myself) might see that your god is a jerk???

Wouldn't it be awesome if Christian women, namely Seventh-Day Adventist women, bore children without any pain?  It would be a great gift the Almighty could bestow to show that your denomination is true Christianity?  It would be nice if women had a supernatural Savior to save them from their pain in childbirth!  If all women who accepted your version of Christianity avoided pain through childbirth, then that would be remarkable evidence for your god.  The fact that your Savior does not relieve this pain makes me think that your god is a jerk (or maybe doesn't exist) because although women don't inherit guilt, they still inherit Eve's punishment. 

My wife is here by my side and she says she would have much rather inherited Eve's guilt and not her punishment!

 

"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries, that have afflicted the human race, have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
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Offline Andy S.

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #245 on: February 19, 2014, 12:14:45 PM »
I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. 

You know they are an end-times cult, right?  Like, "then end is nigh!  We shall hide out in caves while the world burns, and come back out when jesus H appears!"  Spinoff of Millerites.

Hey Screwtape and Nogodsforme,  I don't think you can say the SDA's are a "cult".  Hiding out in caves while the world burns and coming back out when "jesus H" appears is not cultic according to CULT EXPERT Walter Martin:

"In the late 1950s, CULT EXPERT Walter Martin, founder of the Christian Research Institute, in collaboration with neo-evangelical Donald Barnhouse, made an extensive investigation of the teachings (doctrines) of Seventh-Day Adventism. Their purpose was to determine whether to classify SDA as part of the evangelical community, or to go along with the majority of evangelicals and treat SDAs as cult members (thereby requiring evangelicals to exercise Biblical separation). (In the 1955 edition of The Kingdom of the Cults, Martin originally did classify SDA as cultic.) Martin and Barnhouse concluded that SDA was within the bounds of Christian orthodoxy. Walter Martin, in his article in the 12/19/60 Christianity Today, said: "That Adventists should be recognized as Christians and that fellowship should be extended to them we do not deny" (p. 15)."

Link:   http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/sda/adventi.htm


Don't you think it's funny that Martin originally said the SDA's were a cult in 1955 and then changed his mind in the late 1950's?

You want to know what's funnier than that?  The term "CULT EXPERT"!   :laugh:   

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Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #246 on: February 19, 2014, 01:01:01 PM »
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Hey SwordOfGod, welcome to the forum!

Thanks Andy S, lol, thats the first welcome I've had on this forum... coming on here, its like walking in on a war zone and getting shot a million times, so the first friendly hello deserves a medal sir!

Regarding the guilt/punishment thing...  The gospel is good news, and tough news. It brings supernatural ecstasy and rough times. Joy and sorrow run together throughout God’s salvation program. It is the joy of travail that lets Jesus know He will be satisfied (Isa. 53:11). Travail is pain, but giving birth is joy.

We are promised that there will be no more pain in the perfect world to come. "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away" (Rev. 21:4). Jesus pointed out that the pain a woman endures in childbirth but soon forgets is like the suffering that humans endure while on this earth, but that it too is fleeting. "A woman giving birth to a child has pain because her time has come; but when her baby is born she forgets the anguish because of her joy that a child is born into the world. So with you: Now is your time of grief, but I will see you again and you will rejoice, and no one will take away your joy" (John 16:21, 22).

The concept of salvation is so deep and complex that we will never fully understand the plan until God reveals it to us face-to-face after the Second Coming. However, each baby that is born is a reminder of how Jesus fulfilled prophecy to save us from pain forever. And so, even though we still endure physical pain for a time, and expectant mothers continue to request epidurals, we can live with the constant hope that soon and very soon our tears will be wiped away by the divine and yet human finger of our Lord.

Source: http://archives.adventistreview.org/2004-1538/story1.html


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


RE:  Is the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA's) Church a Cult?? 

In terms of Christianity, those labelled a 'cult' are victims of forced doctrinal conformity who have rejected calls for ecumenicalism. Those who do not conform to the majority view are deemed a 'cult' in a futile attempt to delegitimize faith and practice.  However, we are not a cult.  Cults all have one thing in common; they deviate from historical Christianity.  What makes SDA's not a cult?  What is it that other Christian denominations have deviated from?  We keep the Sabbath and dont eat pork, just as Jesus and ALL his disciples did.  The other churches do deviate as they eat pork and keep Sunday, a day never commanded once in the bible.

Proof.

''The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.'' The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4


Source: http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/denominational-statements-on-the-sabbath/id/982/catholic.aspx

Quote
For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #247 on: February 19, 2014, 01:23:40 PM »


RE:  Is the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA's) Church a Cult?? 

In terms of Christianity, those labelled a 'cult' are victims of forced doctrinal conformity who have rejected calls for ecumenicalism. Those who do not conform to the majority view are deemed a 'cult' in a futile attempt to delegitimize faith and practice.  However, we are not a cult.  Cults all have one thing in common; they deviate from historical Christianity.  What makes SDA's not a cult?  What is it that other Christian denominations have deviated from?  We keep the Sabbath and dont eat pork, just as Jesus and ALL his disciples did.  The other churches do deviate as they eat pork and keep Sunday, a day never commanded once in the bible.

Proof.

''The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.'' The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4


Source: http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/denominational-statements-on-the-sabbath/id/982/catholic.aspx

Quote
For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible

I'm sure it is a good thing that you don't eat pork - it is forbidden in the OT after all. The thing is, though, that Peter's vision in Acts legitimised the eating of all foods as did the teaching of Jesus which commented that it was not that which went into a man but that which came out of his mouth that defiled him. Finally, Acts 15 ended up with restricting Gentile Christians to not to eat meat offered to idols and not to eat blood. So your exclusion of pork from the diet seems a lot less biblical that first thought.

Of course, I'm sure you follow all the other commandments that Jesus followed do you? Not working on the Sabbath would be one so I imagine no one drives to church, say, and no one works at the church on the Sabbath. I suppose you keep to circumcisions as well as keep the festivals of Pesach and so on with New Year in September? If not, how did you decide pork was more important that circumcision or the Sabbath more important that washing the things a menstruating woman has sat on in the river?

Just wondering...
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #248 on: February 19, 2014, 01:28:21 PM »
...we can live with the constant hope that soon and very soon our tears will be wiped away by the divine and yet human finger of our Lord.

What do you mean by 'soon and very soon'?
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Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #249 on: February 19, 2014, 01:48:49 PM »
Quote
Pork... Peters vision..
Just wondering...

Wheels..
You're the one who never reads texts from beginning to end in full context..Read verse 27 of the vision in chapter 10..

27 While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. BUT GOD HAS SHOWN ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANYONE IMPURE OR UNCLEAN. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”

Thats the meaning of the vision as explained by the Angel, NOT that its OK to eat pork.


Second:  In Acts 15:20 We are to eat kosher /  halal because we are not allowed to eat blood of the animal, referring to the Law in Leviticus.

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, AND FROM BLOOD.

kosher / halal blessing is principally a process to drain the meat of blood.






"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

Offline screwtape

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #250 on: February 19, 2014, 01:52:13 PM »
I'm very sorry I didn't welcome you before shooting at you. 

Welcome to our forum.

Now, I'm going to shoot at you some more.

The concept of salvation is so deep and complex that we will never fully understand the plan until God reveals it to us face-to-face after the Second Coming.

If someone tells me I cannot understand something until I'm dead, it raises red flags that, you know, what they are telling me is probably bullshit.



RE:  Is the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA's) Church a Cult?? 

...
Source: http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/denominational-statements-on-the-sabbath/id/982/catholic.aspx

Sorry.  That does not answer the question.  Sabbath day is a minor dispute among the religious.  As if the omnipotent creator of all being is fussy about what day you go to church.  As if jesus H would smite you to hell for churching on the wrong day.  Please.   

It's an end times cult.  The Millerites were a cult and the SDA was a sub-cult of theirs.   Look up  October 22, 1844.  You won't be disappointed.  wink wink.  Or maybe you will. Wink wink.

If your religious identity is consumed by what day you church-o-fy, then you, my little friend, are in a cult.

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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #251 on: February 19, 2014, 02:32:56 PM »
Quote
Pork... Peters vision..
Just wondering...

Wheels..
You're the one who never reads texts from beginning to end in full context..Read verse 27 of the vision in chapter 10..

27 While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. BUT GOD HAS SHOWN ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANYONE IMPURE OR UNCLEAN. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”

Thats the meaning of the vision as explained by the Angel, NOT that its OK to eat pork.


Second:  In Acts 15:20 We are to eat kosher /  halal because we are not allowed to eat blood of the animal, referring to the Law in Leviticus.

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, AND FROM BLOOD.

kosher / halal blessing is principally a process to drain the meat of blood.

So, how do you get from Acts 15 to only refraining from pork?
 
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Offline Astreja

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #252 on: February 19, 2014, 03:32:44 PM »
If someone tells me I cannot understand something until I'm dead, it raises red flags that, you know, what they are telling me is probably bullshit.

^ ^ ^ This. 

The existence of disciples and apostles in the New Testament -- Especially people like Paul of Tarsus[1] -- makes one wonder how much any of them could have known (or taught) if they couldn't possibly have comprehended till they died.  Seems that the ones running the show always "understand" well enough to say that they're right and everyone else is wrong.
 1. a.k.a. Paul the Antichrist, who took great delight in contradicting much of what Jesus taught and setting up his own version of "the rules."
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Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #253 on: February 19, 2014, 08:09:40 PM »
Quote
What do you mean by 'soon and very soon'?

Hi Jdawg70

Below you will see what is meant by 'soon and very soon'.  We are at the period called the 'Divided Nations' aka 'Feet of Iron and Clay' at the bottom.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/hj7n.jpg/
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Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #254 on: February 19, 2014, 08:20:59 PM »
Quote
What do you mean by 'soon and very soon'?

..... Jdawg70

Here is another link which shows the earths timeline and we are are on this according to the Bible. We are at the period of time called the Third Woe since 2001.

http://imageshack.com/a/img691/1365/0jqz.jpg
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #255 on: February 19, 2014, 09:21:59 PM »
Soooo, skeptic, all the other predictions of the endtimes were wrong, and this one is correct, because?

Remember, people believed that other charts, dates and timelines were accurate, to the point of selling their belongings and even committing suicide, so it's not like they weren't as sure as you are...

so, how do you know you are right?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #256 on: February 19, 2014, 10:02:19 PM »
We are at the period of time called the Third Woe since 2001.

How very sad.  The Divine being who endowed Sword with a brain and the power to reason has forsaken it all for faith in meaningless drivel.  One more "I'm right and everyone else who doesn't think like me[1] is wrong."  Jim Jones would be proud of you Sword.

 1. or the person who thinks for you
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Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #257 on: February 19, 2014, 10:17:06 PM »

Quote
So, how do you get from Acts 15 to only refraining from pork?

Wheels..

The eating of pork is one, but very common issue out of the dietary law topic that most are familiar with and even joke about. Acts 15 reinforces the fact that the New Testament (NT) teaches very clearly as Christians we are not to eat the blood in meat according to Leviticus 17:14.  This teaching is consistent with the whole biblical narrative. Alternative lifestyles, although a God given right and independent choice, are not biblical even if someone labels it as such in an attempt to justify unbiblical behavior.


screwtape

Quote
Now, I'm going to shoot at you some more.......Sabbath day is a minor dispute among the religious.  As if the omnipotent creator of all being is fussy about what day you go to church.  As if jesus H would smite you to hell for churching on the wrong day.  Please.   

It's an end times cult.  The Millerites were a cult and the SDA was a sub-cult of theirs.   Look up  October 22, 1844.  You won't be disappointed.  wink wink.  Or maybe you will. Wink wink.

If your religious identity is consumed by what day you church-o-fy, then you, my little friend, are in a cult. 

blah blah blah...

1.  God said "Remember the Sabbath day.." Ex 20:8 (In other words, do not forget it)
2. God said "I am Lord of the Sabbath" (in other words, the Sabbath is His day - Isaiah 58:13)
3.  God said "Sabbath was made for man" Mark 2:27 (In other words, that's the day He made for us to worship and rest on)
4. God said "He, [the Antichrist] will seek to change times and laws"  Daniel 7:25 (In other words, the antichrist would attempt to change Gods law)
5. God said "do not obey the Antichrist, but obey God the creator or burn in the lake of fire forever". Revelation 14:6-12, 21:8

So yes, God does care what day we go to church.. He commanded the Sabbath to be the day of rest and all who obey the Antichrist will die. God alone is the one who speaks for Himself, do not presume to speak on His behalf when you are but a worm to Him.

As for 1844, this was man trying to understand the time prophecy in Daniel. The Christians knew it (The Cleansing of the Sanctuary) meant something significant for their time, but they were not sure what it was.  William Miller, a BAPTIST minister, who predicted the time prophecy in Daniel meant it would be Christs return to earth, as he believed the Earth was the sanctuary for some strange reason. Ellen G White, said it was the entering of the Most Holy Place (sanctuary) in the heavenly temple as revealed in a vision by God.  Sister White was the founder of Adventism, not Miller. However, such a Great Disappointment brought great repentance and a new spiritual passion to be pure and holy, serving God in love and fear.  Such a 'Disappointment' brought tremendous blessing. Check your history again and don't be too quick to shoot first and talk later. Talk first, then shoot later if you have to. That would make more sense wouldn't it?

Cult?  The more educated phrase would be NRM.  However, since Im used to atheist double standards and forked measuring sticks, I'll just label you a stupid fool who is not only deceived by the devil, but on a road to hell with no chance at all.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)


"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

Offline SwordOfGod

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #258 on: February 19, 2014, 10:33:06 PM »
Soooo, skeptic, all the other predictions of the endtimes were wrong, and this one is correct, because?

Remember, people believed that other charts, dates and timelines were accurate, to the point of selling their belongings and even committing suicide, so it's not like they weren't as sure as you are...

so, how do you know you are right?

Because we use the Historicist method of interpretation for the Book of Revelation. This means the majority of things have already happened which have been prophesied, such as the First and second Woeand we understand prophecy in light of current and past events rather than future and current events. 

here is one example from the chart where it says '1260 (3 1/2)' :

THE 1260 DAYS OF DANIEL 7


The number 1260 is mentioned seven
times in the Bible in various different ways:

   Daniel 7:25      "a time, times and half a time"
   Daniel 12:7      "a time, times and half a time"
   Revelation 11:2      "42 months"
   Revelation 11:3      "1260 days"
   Revelation 12:6      "1260 days"
   Revelation 12:14   "a time, times and half a time"
   Revelation 13:5      "forty-two months"

It can be shown that all these texts are referring to the same period of
time:

   A time is one year      =  360 days
   Times are two years      =  720 days
   Half a time is half a year   =  180 days
   -----------------------------------------
   Therefore the total      = 1260 days

A month in prophecy is equal to 30 days, therefore forty-two months is
equal to 42 x 30 = 1260 days.

So we can see that these seven texts are talking about the same period of
time, but what does it mean?

In prophecy a day is sometimes used to represent a year, and that is the case
here. (See Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6) So the prophecy is talking about
a period of 1260 years.

If we now go back to Daniel 7:25 we can see that it is the power of the
Little Horn which will control the "saints" for this period of time.

Papal Rome defeated the last of its major enemies (the Ostrogoths) in the
year 538 A.D. when Emperor Justinian's decree came into effect. Throughout
the Dark Ages the Catholic church was the most powerful political force in
the whole world, and it used its power for political and financial gain as
well as for religious purposes. Many millions were persecuted and put to
death - "oppressing the saints of the Most High" as Daniel puts it.

However the power of the Papal Church came to an end when the armed forces
of Napoleon, under general Berthier marched into Rome and took the Pope
captive. This happened in the year 1798 A.D. surprisingly (or perhaps not
so surprisingly) exactly 1260 years after the Papacy came to power in 538
A.D.

That's one way we know it is correct. Its also the time line most reformers used until  only in the last 90c years the Catholic church began its "ecumenical" task of undoing the work of the Reformers, and began teaching Futurist views among others to hide the identity of the Antichrist power which was "drunk with the blood of the saints of the Most High"


"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

- Stuart Chase (R.I.P 1985)

Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #259 on: February 19, 2014, 11:22:17 PM »
Soooo, skeptic, all the other predictions of the endtimes were wrong, and this one is correct, because?

Remember, people believed that other charts, dates and timelines were accurate, to the point of selling their belongings and even committing suicide, so it's not like they weren't as sure as you are...

so, how do you know you are right?

Because we use the Historicist method of interpretation for the Book of Revelation. This means the majority of things have already happened which have been prophesied, such as the First and second Woeand we understand prophecy in light of current and past events rather than future and current events. 

here is one example from the chart where it says '1260 (3 1/2)' :

THE 1260 DAYS OF DANIEL 7


The number 1260 is mentioned seven
times in the Bible in various different ways:

   Daniel 7:25      "a time, times and half a time"
   Daniel 12:7      "a time, times and half a time"
   Revelation 11:2      "42 months"
   Revelation 11:3      "1260 days"
   Revelation 12:6      "1260 days"
   Revelation 12:14   "a time, times and half a time"
   Revelation 13:5      "forty-two months"

It can be shown that all these texts are referring to the same period of
time:

   A time is one year      =  360 days
   Times are two years      =  720 days
   Half a time is half a year   =  180 days
   -----------------------------------------
   Therefore the total      = 1260 days

A month in prophecy is equal to 30 days, therefore forty-two months is
equal to 42 x 30 = 1260 days.

So we can see that these seven texts are talking about the same period of
time, but what does it mean?

In prophecy a day is sometimes used to represent a year, and that is the case
here. (See Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6) So the prophecy is talking about
a period of 1260 years.

If we now go back to Daniel 7:25 we can see that it is the power of the
Little Horn which will control the "saints" for this period of time.

Papal Rome defeated the last of its major enemies (the Ostrogoths) in the
year 538 A.D. when Emperor Justinian's decree came into effect. Throughout
the Dark Ages the Catholic church was the most powerful political force in
the whole world, and it used its power for political and financial gain as
well as for religious purposes. Many millions were persecuted and put to
death - "oppressing the saints of the Most High" as Daniel puts it.

However the power of the Papal Church came to an end when the armed forces
of Napoleon, under general Berthier marched into Rome and took the Pope
captive. This happened in the year 1798 A.D. surprisingly (or perhaps not
so surprisingly) exactly 1260 years after the Papacy came to power in 538
A.D.

That's one way we know it is correct. Its also the time line most reformers used until  only in the last 90c years the Catholic church began its "ecumenical" task of undoing the work of the Reformers, and began teaching Futurist views among others to hide the identity of the Antichrist power which was "drunk with the blood of the saints of the Most High"

Skeptic-whatever-the-fuck.


SwordOfGod.




You are just asking to get banned with your Lando Calrissian avatar.




Poe's Law, Asshole.

Poe's Law.
Enough with your bullshit.
. . . Mr. Friday . . . that post really is golden.

Offline voodoo child

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Re: Is Jesus the Son of God or God?
« Reply #260 on: February 20, 2014, 12:04:41 AM »
I wonder what the SDA would think, if one of their own was married to an atheist and the atheist is paying for the son’s education at a SDA collage? 


   
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee