Author Topic: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?  (Read 1055 times)

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Offline median

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Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« on: November 15, 2013, 12:08:59 AM »
For the purpose of this thread, I define 'knowledge' as justified true belief (or) that which is so well supported by the evidence that it would be worldview altering to deny (either/or) and I would like to discuss this OP subject in regards to religious claims to 'strong belief' or knowledge.

ANSWER THESE PLEASE:

-Do you know the bible is inspired by God?
-Are you certain that Christianity is the true religion or true reality?
-Do you know that God speaks with you?
-Are you sure that evolution (common descent) is false?
-Do you know that you are saved and/or going to heaven?

If you answered 'Yes' to any of these questions, then please answer the following question as best you can (with details): How do you know?

What I'm looking for here is the actual evidence and/or sound arguments which lead you to this conclusion (aka - this 'knowledge'). What makes you think you are correct in what you say you know as pertaining to one of your 'Yes' answers above?
 
If you are the type of Christian who does not claim to 'know' but only 'believe' then please describe why it is that you don't know, and why you believe instead.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 12:21:04 AM by median »
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." Friedrich Nietzsche

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2013, 01:40:02 AM »
BM

-Nam

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2013, 01:43:03 AM »
I am very curious if you guys ever get outside and see the sun.

Does being an atheist mean that I have to sit at my computer all day thinking of "brainbusters" for Christians?

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2013, 01:45:16 AM »
I am very curious if you guys ever get outside and see the sun.

Does being an atheist mean that I have to sit at my computer all day thinking of "brainbusters" for Christians?

I was outside yesterday for seven hours. However, you're one to talk, you seem to be here all the time, as well.

-Nam

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 01:48:40 AM »
I was outside yesterday for seven hours. However, you're one to talk, you seem to be here all the time, as well.

-Nam

I have not posted in a few days. I have been out enjoying God's green Earth.

I suppose if you don't believe there's a purpose for the Earth, then it's easy to ignore it with a "whatever" mentality.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2013, 01:54:06 AM »
I have not posted in a few days. I have been out enjoying God's green Earth.

I suppose if you don't believe there's a purpose for the Earth, then it's easy to ignore it with a "whatever" mentality.

So are you going to answer the OP questions?


ANSWER THESE PLEASE:

-Do you know the bible is inspired by God?
-Are you certain that Christianity is the true religion or true reality?
-Do you know that God speaks with you?
-Are you sure that evolution (common descent) is false?
-Do you know that you are saved and/or going to heaven?

If you answered 'Yes' to any of these questions, then please answer the following question as best you can (with details): How do you know?

What I'm looking for here is the actual evidence and/or sound arguments which lead you to this conclusion (aka - this 'knowledge'). What makes you think you are correct in what you say you know as pertaining to one of your 'Yes' answers above?
 
If you are the type of Christian who does not claim to 'know' but only 'believe' then please describe why it is that you don't know, and why you believe instead.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2013, 01:54:08 AM »
I was outside yesterday for seven hours. However, you're one to talk, you seem to be here all the time, as well.

-Nam

I have not posted in a few days. I have been out enjoying God's green Earth.

I suppose if you don't believe there's a purpose for the Earth, then it's easy to ignore it with a "whatever" mentality.

The only person here who has a "whatever" mentality, is you. Your posts say that in reply to anything someone says here that contradict your beliefs and ideology.

-Nam

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2013, 01:56:04 AM »
So are you going to answer the OP questions?

I already did in various threads with various replies at various times throughout my time here.

No sense in beating a dead horse, especially when there's nothing left except for the skeleton.

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2013, 01:59:37 AM »
So are you going to answer the OP questions?

I already did in various threads with various replies at various times throughout my time here.

No sense in beating a dead horse, especially when there's nothing left except for the skeleton.

So, your intent in this topic was to post nonsense, and to not participate?

[Not to skeptic]

Why isn't he banned yet?

-Nam

Offline median

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2013, 02:02:02 AM »
So are you going to answer the OP questions?

I already did in various threads with various replies at various times throughout my time here.

No sense in beating a dead horse, especially when there's nothing left except for the skeleton.

This is you Bearing False Witness again. You have NOT answered all of these questions in other OPs and for the ones you have attempted to answer you have given irrational responses, by use of logical fallacies. Please correct yourself and answer this OP in DETAIL (unlike the other times). Thank you.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 02:04:12 AM »
So, your intent in this topic was to post nonsense, and to not participate?

[Not to skeptic]

Why isn't he banned yet?

-Nam

You're absolutely right. I shouldn't have said anything then.

The problem is that I see so many threads being started by atheists and I wonder why they spend so much time thinking about this stuff.

But, I made a mistake. As a Christian, I should have known better. My emotions got in the way.

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 02:14:18 AM »
So, your intent in this topic was to post nonsense, and to not participate?

[Not to skeptic]

Why isn't he banned yet?

-Nam

You're absolutely right. I shouldn't have said anything then.

The problem is that I see so many threads being started by atheists and I wonder why they spend so much time thinking about this stuff.

But, I made a mistake. As a Christian, I should have known better. My emotions got in the way.

Emotions. Only emotion you have is cowardice.

-Nam

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 04:52:04 AM »
The problem is that I see so many threads being started by atheists and I wonder why they spend so much time thinking about this stuff.

But, I made a mistake. As a Christian, I should have known better. My emotions got in the way.

Skeptic54768, you may answer the questions posed in this thread if you wish.  If you do not intend to do so, you will not post again with another derailment.

Other site members: please only respond to Skeptic54768 here if it is to a direct response by him to the OP
.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline stuffin

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2013, 09:24:39 AM »
So are you going to answer the OP questions?

I already did in various threads with various replies at various times throughout my time here.

No sense in beating a dead horse, especially when there's nothing left except for the skeleton.

Could you at least throw up some links to these threads so we may evaluate your answers (again).



Thank You,
stuffin
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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2013, 10:09:31 AM »
This is you Bearing False Witness again.

False witness is a court thing. You can tell from the Hammurabi code (no. 3)

There is no law against lying in the O.T, since that would make writing Bible documents a sin.
I strive for clarity, but aim for confusion.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2013, 10:40:31 AM »
The problem is that I see so many threads being started by atheists and I wonder why they spend so much time thinking about this stuff.
Apologies to median and mods, but I feel like getting this one out here.  The above just strikes a particularly sensitive chord with me.  Remove if necessary.

What I really, honestly, do not understand is why a believer doesn't spend so much time thinking about this stuff.  Do you really just not care enough about what it is you do or do not believe, in particular in regards to this subject of the existence of an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving deity that has a vested interest in your affairs and the affairs of others to spend significant time thinking about it?  It just seems like something you'd want to actually take seriously.

I find it rather ridiculous frankly.  I mean, I can understand the sentiment of asking someone why they would be spending so much time trying to make an argument that lightsabers are far better than phasers.  I can understand the sentiment of questioning why anyone would waste their time debating the superiority of Mayan culture over Aztec culture.  These are subject matters that have little bearing on the day to day life of people, and procrastination on finding some truth in subjects like this doesn't cause any problems, certainly in the short term, and in the case of subject matter that is not real, causes no problems in the long term either.

But in your case skeptic54768, again, you're talking about the subject of the existence of an entity that is, according to you and many other theists out there, of vast importance.  In some cases, it is purported that this entity is the most important thing, ever.  So why so surprised when people want to take questions regarding it's purported existence and nature seriously?  Why so surprised that, when some people in this universe make some kind of over-arching claim such as the existence of a god, that other people want to treat that claim seriously and question it?  And why don't you bother to take it seriously?

I just don't understand it.

Offline median

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2013, 11:33:29 AM »
This is you Bearing False Witness again.

False witness is a court thing. You can tell from the Hammurabi code (no. 3)

There is no law against lying in the O.T, since that would make writing Bible documents a sin.

According to Christians, lying (Bearing False Witness) is a sin. Septics answer was a deliberate lie (a sin according to him) and he does it quite commonly (saying he has done something when he hasn't or misrepresenting people's positions). Lying for Jesus! When he has to Bear False Witness in order to engage in debate I can imagine he must be secretly doubting his faith. He hasn't answered all of the questions in this OP and it's quite hilarious that he'll post a one liner and then run away. Kind of makes ya wonder why he continually does that huh? The Jehovah's Witnesses do that at my house when they cant handle the truth. "We know it's true but look at the time!" The difference is, they don't lie to keep their faith.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2013, 12:18:28 PM »
you can't know anything that isn't proven by science
someone can say they will love you forever and you may believe they will always be there for you
but they may bail on you when you need them the most
if I can't find where a scientist proved it by an equation or saw it on a slide or can demonstrate some other solid method I no longer believe or trust anything or anyone
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline median

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2013, 01:34:36 PM »
you can't know anything that isn't proven by science

Christians will say, "Did you learn this statement by science? So, you've assumed science to prove the validity of science?" This is why philosophy is necessary. It is the first science.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Jag

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2013, 01:40:38 PM »
I am very curious if you guys ever get outside and see the sun.

Does being an atheist mean that I have to sit at my computer all day thinking of "brainbusters" for Christians?
Well looky here. I'm outside sitting in the sun (a neccessary position as it's only in the mid 40's) AND on this site. Isn't technology great?  ;D
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Eddie Schultz

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2013, 06:13:23 PM »
As I KNOW, most of us KNOW that Christians don't care to KNOW if something is factual, they only need faith which requires no evidence for what they accept as truth. I have seen other christians answer that way when asked a similar question.

It's pretty much a lost cause.

GO HAWKS!!

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2013, 02:32:40 AM »
I might as well dive head first into the shark tank.

ANSWER THESE PLEASE:

-Do you know the bible is inspired by God?

I personally know it but can't prove it to you.

-Are you certain that Christianity is the true religion or true reality?

Yes. Infinity %.

-Do you know that God speaks with you?

Yes. If you are listening for an audible sound, then I am afraid you will not find it. God does not speak audibly, yet I hear Him.

-Are you sure that evolution (common descent) is false?

Logically, yes. Even if I were an atheist.
Can't support "particles to people" evolution.

-Do you know that you are saved and/or going to heaven?

Yes, I am saved and going to Heaven. God does not play games with His saved creatures.

A cruel God would keep you guessing, wondering, sweating, and hoping that you will make it.
A benevolent God tells you, "I guarantee you will be in paradise."

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2013, 02:35:52 AM »
Christians will say, "Did you learn this statement by science? So, you've assumed science to prove the validity of science?" This is why philosophy is necessary. It is the first science.

but that is true, Median.

You can't use science to prove science. It becomes tautological.

Offline Astreja

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2013, 03:13:51 AM »
You can't use science to prove science. It becomes tautological.

Well, Skeptic, there's your mistake:  Science isn't about "proof."  It's about evidence.  Inasmuch as a theory describes known facts about things in the universe, and makes accurate predictions about what those things will do under specific conditions, the theory is useful.

Now let's apply this to your responses in your previous post:

Quote
-Do you know the bible is inspired by God?

I personally know it but can't prove it to you.
Well, that's not very useful at all.  Your proof appears to be locked inside your head and is inaccessible to anyone but yourself.

Quote
-Are you certain that Christianity is the true religion or true reality?

Yes. Infinity %.
On what basis?  How many other belief systems have you investigated well enough to understand their basic tenets and practices?  To what extent have you approached Christianity with a critical eye?

Quote
-Do you know that God speaks with you?

Yes. If you are listening for an audible sound, then I am afraid you will not find it. God does not speak audibly, yet I hear Him.
Serious question:  If I were to name a character from a movie or cartoon, would you also be able to "hear" that voice in your mind? If so, why do you think that your god is any more real?

Quote
-Are you sure that evolution (common descent) is false?

Logically, yes. Even if I were an atheist.
Can't support "particles to people" evolution.
You're confusing abiogenesis with evolution.  I strongly suggest that you do some serious reading on the subject of evolution before you dismiss it entirely.

Quote
-Do you know that you are saved and/or going to heaven?

Yes, I am saved and going to Heaven. God does not play games with His saved creatures.

A cruel God would keep you guessing, wondering, sweating, and hoping that you will make it.
A benevolent God tells you, "I guarantee you will be in paradise."
But is it telling the truth with its alleged guarantee?  Anyone can say "I wouldn't lie to you" while lying through their teeth.  There also isn't any good evidence for life after death, so please ask yourself whether you "know" this, or whether you're just hoping for eternal life to be real.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2013, 03:41:42 AM »

You can't use science to prove science. It becomes tautological.

Would not that seem to indicate that you can't use religion to prove religion either?

Science isn't used to prove science. It is used to discover and explain evidence which can be used to provide viable answers to burning questions. Be they about evolution or why airplanes fly. Or at least science tries its darndest to do that. That isn't tautological. It is interesting and useful and very much worth pursuing. Which is more than I can say for inaccurate ancient history.

What do you think is tautological about inventing serums that are used to wipe smallpox off the face of the earth? Do you need proof beyond that because science was involved? Landing exploratory craft on Mars. Is that tautological? If all sorts of highly suspect science goes into creating and launching a space probe to another planet, and it gets there and starts sending back data, what part isn't happening because it is tautological?

If scientists predict that global warming will reduce sea ice and cause sea levels to rise, and then, son of a bitch, the ice is melting and the sea levels are rising, where is the tautological error in their predictions?

Just wondering.

Science doesn't need to prove science. The proof, or at least the evidence, is in the pudding. And until you can explain why life forms that have been defined by science as being the animals and plants that lived in very early geologic periods, like the giant insects of the Pennsylvanian period, are always, as in every frickin' time, found in older, deeper rock than the bones of T-Rex. All you need to do to disprove evolution is go out and find a giant dragonfly that is buried in shallower rock than a velociraptor, and you win. But science predicts that you cannot possibly do that. And not a single anti-evolution "scientist" has ever bothered trying to do that because they know they can't do it.

If their death was, oh, I dunno, flood based, then the critters should be all jumbled up. There should be fossilized humans in with the dead dinosaurs because god was mad at them too, as per your book. But there are no humans mixed in. You can spend your whole life looking for human remains amongst the dead plants and animals that buried in rock all over the world and you will be what we euphemistically call shit out of luck.

Paleontologists will give you a list of the order that animals lived. And they will tell you where animals are yet to be dug up. And disinterested third parties can stand over your shoulder and watch while you run around with a shovel trying to find a Ordovician period nautilus buried above a triceratops, and if you do, you win. But you can't do that because it is impossible. Believing in the impossible is easy. Doing it is somewhat harder.

If the claims made by people who say that evolution is real are indeed false, it should be a cinch to disprove them. So easy a first grader should be able to do it. Because that many lies can't possibly hold up if they are as false as fundamentalists claim.

When you guys with bibles can get your story straight and quit disagreeing with each other over the gross and the minute, when you can all agree on which parts are literal and which parts are allegory and such, when you can demonstrate that it is indeed possible that the universe began less than ten thousand years ago because you would expect to see A, B and C in space and on earth if that were the case, then you have something to work with. And hey, an unquestionably working prayer or two would be nice. But gosh, if you don't have time for that, don't worry about it.

In the meantime, you having nothing. And you can't fool us. But apparently you sure can fool yourselves.
Never trust an atom. They make up everything!

Offline Zankuu

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2013, 04:12:07 AM »
I am very curious if you guys ever get outside and see the sun.

Does being an atheist mean that I have to sit at my computer all day thinking of "brainbusters" for Christians?

That's an odd question coming from a person that claimed to have been an atheist in the past.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2013, 07:25:57 AM »
I might as well dive head first into the shark tank.

You just gave us the stock standard answers, that all Christians give. To dive into the shark tank, you have to engage with the consequences of what you just said.

Quote
-Do you know the bible is inspired by God?

I personally know it but can't prove it to you.

If the Bible is only inspired by God, and not his literal word, then why do you hold to the incorrect stories in Genesis? Why can't you view them as inspired, but not true?

Quote
-Are you sure that evolution (common descent) is false?

Logically, yes. Even if I were an atheist.
Can't support "particles to people" evolution.

Mmmm. But if you were a theist, and the real God stepped up to you, and said he designed the universe so it would self evolve all life, then wouldn't you be spitting in his face, if you said, "No. I don't believe you are capable of doing such a thing". And he replied "But, look.. that's what I have done. Don't you think this is more glorious than a book that says the sun was created on day 4?"

Why is it that you want to not see what God has done, to give support to a book that you only hold is "inspired", not actually the last word?

---------------

I will leave it at that, because your shark tank experience will be rather shallow.
I strive for clarity, but aim for confusion.

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2013, 12:20:09 PM »
Skeptic says we can't see what's in his brain. That's not true. We can always cut it open and fiddle around. See what he's seeing. Dissect his eyes, too.

-Nam

Offline median

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Re: Christians: Are You Pretending To Know Things You Don't Know?
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2013, 12:38:13 PM »
Septic must have flunked out of school on many occasions (if his attempts here are any indication). Notice how he never actually completes an OP in full. It was asked: How do you know? (which was the main point of this OP) and he conveniently skipped that one. He tends to flippantly ignore things in each OP so he doesn't have to talk about the real issues each OP is pertaining to.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." Friedrich Nietzsche