Author Topic: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?  (Read 905 times)

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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2013, 10:55:42 AM »
Christians read from what is obviously a book of myths and tell us they believe it. I am going by personal experience.

There is quite a difference.
And what about the Christians (and Muslims, Hindus, Taoists, etc.) that do go by personal experience?

Do you not recognize the fault of extrapolating merely personal experience[1] to objective truths?
 1. as opposed to personal experience and objective evidence

Few if any claim any kind of apotheosis so I need not even consider your question. Apples and oranges.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2013, 11:00:37 AM »
You are correct. We are just going in circles and it stops now.

I will answer questions but will not speak to beliefs and proofs as there are none to show for my beliefs that will not change.

I offered an anecdotal story. Accept it or reject it. I have no control of which way you go and will not beg for belief.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2013, 11:01:10 AM »
Few if any claim any kind of apotheosis so I need not even consider your question. Apples and oranges.
Do you know what the word 'apotheosis' means?  You've used it several times, and I've just kind of let it go as meaning something similar to 'intense epiphany'[1].  But I think I'm mistaken at this point, because I assure you there are many who have experienced this 'intense epiphany' (just google around for conversion stories - they're a dime a dozen).

Perhaps you can clarify?
 1. as opposed to the dictionary definition of 'peak', 'climax', 'antithesis of nadir', 'deification'
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Jag

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2013, 11:12:27 AM »
Christians read from what is obviously a book of myths and tell us they believe it. I am going by personal experience.

There is quite a difference.
And what about the Christians (and Muslims, Hindus, Taoists, etc.) that do go by personal experience?

Do you not recognize the fault of extrapolating merely personal experience[1] to objective truths?
 1. as opposed to personal experience and objective evidence

Few if any claim any kind of apotheosis so I need not even consider your question.
Pfft. Of course you don't. It might interfere with the story you're telling.
Quote
Apples and oranges.
More like Cortland apples and other Cortland apples on the next tree to the left, but I understand why you don't see it that way.
I will answer questions but will not speak to beliefs and proofs
Promise?
Quote
as there are none to show for my beliefs that will not change.
Well duh. Crowing about closing your mind, what an accomplishment!
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2013, 11:15:53 AM »
Few if any claim any kind of apotheosis so I need not even consider your question. Apples and oranges.
Do you know what the word 'apotheosis' means?  You've used it several times, and I've just kind of let it go as meaning something similar to 'intense epiphany'[1].  But I think I'm mistaken at this point, because I assure you there are many who have experienced this 'intense epiphany' (just google around for conversion stories - they're a dime a dozen).

Perhaps you can clarify?
 1. as opposed to the dictionary definition of 'peak', 'climax', 'antithesis of nadir', 'deification'

Apotheosis is just finding that there is a Jacob's ladder, esoterically speaking, and finding that you are on it and that there is an unseen aspect to our reality. That is why I continue to seek God. Not the God described in scriptures but our true God which is just the best set of rules to love by. I seek an ideal.

Regards
DL


Offline jdawg70

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2013, 11:34:55 AM »
Apotheosis is just finding that there is a Jacob's ladder, esoterically speaking, and finding that you are on it and that there is an unseen aspect to our reality. That is why I continue to seek God. Not the God described in scriptures but our true God which is just the best set of rules to love by. I seek an ideal.
Well, if that's the case, then I suggest you talk to more religious people, or at least google around for those conversion stories that I alluded to earlier.

Because your claim that 'few if any claim any kind of apotheosis' in the sense that you're describing it is incorrect.

Finally, I don't know why you needed any sort of 'apotheosis' to realize that there are unseen (and unknown) aspects to our reality.  We aren't gods; we aren't omniscient.  There is sh*t that we don't know or understand about reality.  This is readily evident.  But to fill in the blanks with whatever the hell bulls**t we want to that feels right is being intellectually dishonest.  To elevate your own personal experiences above objective analysis is hubris and a poor way to search for truth.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline median

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2013, 11:43:24 AM »

That is all the evidence I need.
I don't care of the evidence against.


If Randy accepted two lie detector tests as evidence I might be a million bucks richer, but alas.

Regards
DL

The statements above demonstrate quite clearly that you don't care whether or not your beliefs are true. You just want to believe (just like the Christians).

Lie detector tests, btw, have no bearing on whether or not a persons claim is actually true - as people are mistaken all the time in their assessments.

Also, just making a different kind of claim than other people make (divine level? please...) does not make your claim true by default. You need to actually demonstrate that there is "the divine" before you can claim that you experienced it.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 11:50:05 AM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2013, 01:23:35 PM »
I have never claimed anything to be divine. I go the other way and say there is no such thing.

It is all natural.

I care if my beliefs are true. I don't care if you do or not.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2013, 01:35:53 PM »
I care if my beliefs are true.
No, you really don't care.
That is all the evidence I need.
I don't care of the evidence against.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline median

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2013, 01:50:07 PM »
I have never claimed anything to be divine. I go the other way and say there is no such thing.

It is all natural.

I care if my beliefs are true. I don't care if you do or not.

Regards
DL

Just saying that you care if your beliefs are true doesn't mean you do (just like just saying that you experienced X extraordinary thing [telepathy, 'cosmic consciousness'...whatever] and that your interpretation of it is accurate doesn't establish that it is). Why even bring it up here if you aren't interested in actually putting your hypotheses to the test? Even further, with the amount of human error that has been demonstrated over time, along with your personal diagnosis of said experience (although we've already been over this), why aren't you practicing skepticism toward it (such as being critical of your own claim, interpretation, memory, etc - and posting that self criticism in detail here) instead of posting mere hypotheses and unconfirmed conjecture for attempted support? As others have noted, these are signs of confirmation bias.

If all you're going to come back with is, "Well, I can't provide evidence for it to you but I know what I know" then it's quite clear that you do not care if your beliefs are true.

Btw, I know you don't care what others think about your personal beliefs. That is exactly the problem.

Here's more evidence of confirmation bias:

I don't care of the evidence against.

Anti-science I see.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 01:55:00 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2013, 02:04:12 PM »
Ok. done here. There is no point in this back biting.

Regards
DL