Author Topic: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?  (Read 910 times)

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Offline Greatest I am

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Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« on: November 12, 2013, 03:53:53 PM »
Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?

I have been asked to do an O P showing my beliefs and have written a nutshell view to fill that request.
   
I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.

This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.

This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.



 

Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.

Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?
 
Regards
DL

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2013, 09:09:28 PM »
The things being taught in those clips are a tad cherry picking.    :o    But probably do show that gnosticism was alive and well, during the 90-110AD period when the synoptic gospels were revised. Could be a mug's game to interpret the Bible, since it's been edited by 4 or 5 factions

This is Tertullian explaining "the kingdom is within you", but in the context of criticizing Marcion's version/interp of Luke
http://gnosis.org/library/marcion/Tert10.html#AM354

As for apotheosis, I remember one guy (testifying on a forum) who took DMT, who said that he realised the he was totally alone, and the only consciousness in the universe. (Solipsism) It's possible that apotheosi are like QM interpretations: pretty common on the ground.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline natlegend

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 06:19:42 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds a little like deism to me? Do you believe that an intelligent and powerful being started the universe billions of years ago, and that life on earth evolved naturally? And that said being no longer interacts with the universe?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 07:17:53 AM »
Did you know you have posted that 2nd video seven times.
Fair enough to post it more than once ,but, about 12 minutes in is a plea for donations.
If I were being cycnical I might think you were some how involved with that guy.
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 07:26:59 AM »
I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian.

When I read this, I know that there is some dishonesty involved.





Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.

Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?

Both versions are based on extremely idiotic assumptions.
 

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 11:22:23 AM »
As for apotheosis, I remember one guy (testifying on a forum) who took DMT, who said that he realised the he was totally alone, and the only consciousness in the universe. (Solipsism) It's possible that apotheosi are like QM interpretations: pretty common on the ground.
Greatest I Am -

I know this will sound like I'm being facetious or insulting or what have you, but understand that I mean this in all sincerity.

Have you ever partook in a recreational drug of any kind at all?  I'm hesitant to recommend any form of recreational drug use, but I can't help but think you're mistaking (basically) a brain fart for a genuine, objective, spiritual experience, and constructing an entire worldview around it.  Experiencing the effects of a psychoactive drug are, frankly, hard to describe in solid terms.

If you are interested in either re-experiencing this apotheosis of yours or researching similar experiences:
http://www.erowid.org

Full disclosure - I spent a portion of my life experimenting with a variety of entheogens, and while I wasn't necessarily trying to follow down the Leary path for truth I was seeking out a genuine spiritual experience.  As your apotheosis and resultant understanding of truth seem to be rather indescribable (you continually speak in terms of what the 'cosmic consciousness' is not and never seem to be able to articulate any aspect of what it is), I can't pretend to empathize with what it is you felt or experienced.  But the words that you use, as little information that they actually convey with the way you use them, indicate to me that you share something in common with the experiences that psychonauts felt/feel when trying to find spirituality via chemical aid.

Quote
I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
And I'll say this again - having no proof is also always the way with made up things.

Other random reference - an old documentary on psychonauts (warning: it's a 40+ minute video):
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline median

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 02:43:57 PM »
Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?

I have been asked to do an O P showing my beliefs and have written a nutshell view to fill that request.
   
I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.

This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.

This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.

Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.

Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?
 
Regards
DL

The term "apotheosis" doesn't tell us anything. You reached a climax/high-point of what?? You've made prior assumptions and that is your problem. Were you tired of not-knowing so then decided to just pick something and pretend to "know" (hence being Gnostic)? The Gnostics claimed to have 'secret' knowledge' (which I don't buy for a second and don't see why you would either) but why doesn't this raise a red-flag for you? Why would you believe in (and put your life/trust in) something for which is subjective (you cannot demonstrate) and from which you have made yet another self-diagnosis? Is that a reliable pathway to separating fact from fiction? It seems to me you have just found another way of continuing to be credulous. "I had this experience (based on a prior assumption that the 'spiritual' is real) and since I don't want to be skeptical anymore I'm just going to call it 'cosmic consciousness God-head" (or whatever). W-T-F. You don't see a problem with this?

I will grant you at least one thing, you are between a rock and a hard-place (it's called cognitive dissonance btw) but that can easily be relieved by applying proper skepticism of your interpretations of said "experiences". Doesn't this seem to be a trend for you (constantly looking for answers beyond the boundaries of human reason or demonstrable evidence)? It seems you have gotten stuck on "there must be something more" fallacy and hence you interpret things as such. 
Quote
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish.

David Hume

To paraphrase Hume, it is far more likely that you have suffered a misapprehension than something so extraordinary had taken place such that the laws of nature must be suspended or could not describe (especially in the case which you have already admitted you cannot demonstrate your claims). Why are you not more suspect of your own judgment and self-diagnosis??? Do you not know that human judgment is filled with error? If so, you should suspend judgment and admit agnosticism (not pretend to know what you do not know). What you are doing seems the very height of human arrogance and gullibility. "I know what I experienced (no you don't) and nobody can tell me otherwise!" It's really just a bunk tactic; trying to hide inside the walls of subjectivity for protection. Saves you a lot of hard work, doesn't it?

Look at these great stretch lengths you are going to in order to hold onto some belief in the transcendent/mystical/"spiritual" (what Paul Kurtz called The Transcendental Temptation) when there is no warrant for that - branding yourself (there's the self-diagnosis): Esoteric, ecumenist (ecumenical), Gnostic Christian, cosmic consciousness, God-head believer.

Can you even get anymore superstitious?

You can't see that this "high-point" of which you are attempting to speak didn't get you anywhere that you didn't already want to go. You already believed in a "God" and the "spiritual" (whatever that means) and it's akin to someone who begins to "pray" to know if the bible is true. Your entire approach to epistemological questions is what you should be skeptical of. Why pray to a non-existent being? Why shout out to Santa Claus if you don't already have an inclination for thinking he is real? Why assume there is a "God"? Why assume there is anything "spiritual"?? Your baseline assumptions are faulty and your belief in a "God" thing is very relevant to this discussion because it provides evidence of the kinds of things you are willing to accept on no demonstrable evidence.

To answer the OP, I don't think EITHER "version" is worthy of anything but skepticism (since the very notion of a "Jesus" is clearly borrowed, if not outright stolen, from other previous pagan cults). And what you should have done was chuck the whole thing out (the bible that is) and start over with a critical, skeptical, approach toward knowledge.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 02:52:01 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 07:24:12 PM »
The things being taught in those clips are a tad cherry picking.    :o    But probably do show that gnosticism was alive and well, during the 90-110AD period when the synoptic gospels were revised. Could be a mug's game to interpret the Bible, since it's been edited by 4 or 5 factions

This is Tertullian explaining "the kingdom is within you", but in the context of criticizing Marcion's version/interp of Luke
http://gnosis.org/library/marcion/Tert10.html#AM354

As for apotheosis, I remember one guy (testifying on a forum) who took DMT, who said that he realised the he was totally alone, and the only consciousness in the universe. (Solipsism) It's possible that apotheosi are like QM interpretations: pretty common on the ground.

It is hard to say about such things but the pleasure and pain I experiences is not spoken of by anyone that I have heard of but who can say if there is only one type of experience or many when they are so uncommon.

I have heard of DMT induced trances and there is always the Peyote Indians but one would think that if we could contact God so easily, why are we not being educated by him.

Keep that grain of salt handy.

Regards
DL


Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 07:28:08 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds a little like deism to me? Do you believe that an intelligent and powerful being started the universe billions of years ago, and that life on earth evolved naturally? And that said being no longer interacts with the universe?

No. I think the big bang did it's thing and here we are. The cosmic consciousness I see, if I can use a simple scenario, as a mainframe without software the we found and made our home, if you will, when we died. It was never sentient and only became so thanks to us.

I do not have a God of the gaps.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 07:32:30 PM »
Did you know you have posted that 2nd video seven times.
Fair enough to post it more than once ,but, about 12 minutes in is a plea for donations.
If I were being cycnical I might think you were some how involved with that guy.

No and I do not even think he is still broadcasting. He does have a web site though and I do not mind his style and enthusiasm.

He just happens to have some good esoteric interpretations direct from the bible and I use the bible against theists whenever I can.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2013, 07:48:21 PM »
As for apotheosis, I remember one guy (testifying on a forum) who took DMT, who said that he realised the he was totally alone, and the only consciousness in the universe. (Solipsism) It's possible that apotheosi are like QM interpretations: pretty common on the ground.
Greatest I Am -

I know this will sound like I'm being facetious or insulting or what have you, but understand that I mean this in all sincerity.

Have you ever partook in a recreational drug of any kind at all?

Absolutely but not much and no, no hallucinogens were involves either the first time I did telepathy with my wife, it was early morning, nor the second time when I found the cosmic consciousness.

The extent of my use would be lots of drinking, LSD once, interesting in terms of distortions of vision and the music was better but it lasted way too long and I was not impressed enough to try it again. Pot, of course, but rarely. I am not a teetotaller but my wife is and that is a dampener to any good buzz or high if you know what I mean.

Regards
DL


Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2013, 07:58:01 PM »
[
To answer the OP, I don't think EITHER "version" is worthy of anything but skepticism (since the very notion of a "Jesus" is clearly borrowed, if not outright stolen, from other previous pagan cults). And what you should have done was chuck the whole thing out (the bible that is) and start over with a critical, skeptical, approach toward knowledge.

Been there and done that and was forced out of that mind set by experience.

Is this scientist and his experiments also intellectual dissonance?

I claim no more other than communication with a consolidated bunch of minds.



Regards
DL

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2013, 01:03:08 AM »
It is hard to say about such things but the pleasure and pain I experiences is not spoken of by anyone that I have heard of

You don't have to look very far, to find that your brain can manufacture painful experiences, when triggered the right way

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23788
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/514087-DMT-First-time-Bad-Trip
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=36721

I've heard someone who has done a "bad" LSD trip, say that a "flashback" is not due to some chemical residue, but your brain leaving a permanent path back to that trip state, like your brain has been remapped. A sequence of lights, or something emotionally similar to the trip, can put you back in there. This being the case, it's possible that a person can spontaneously have whacked-out experiences, without an apparent trigger.

Quote
Absolutely but not much and no, no hallucinogens were involves either the first time I did telepathy with my wife, it was early morning, nor the second time when I found the cosmic consciousness.

Telepathic experiences are moderately common with DMT and Ayahuasca, but conveniently, nobody ever comes back with any evidence.
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=7551






Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline median

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2013, 11:54:23 AM »
[
To answer the OP, I don't think EITHER "version" is worthy of anything but skepticism (since the very notion of a "Jesus" is clearly borrowed, if not outright stolen, from other previous pagan cults). And what you should have done was chuck the whole thing out (the bible that is) and start over with a critical, skeptical, approach toward knowledge.

Been there and done that and was forced out of that mind set by experience.

Is this scientist and his experiments also intellectual dissonance?

I claim no more other than communication with a consolidated bunch of minds.


Regards
DL

This is funny. Notice the inconsistency with your statements and your posting this video to substantiate them. You say you "cannot prove" telepathy (etc) to anyone else, and yet a second later you post a video of Persinger, who is a scientist trying to prove his hypotheses to everyone else. LOL. Why haven't you gone and joined him! You didn't answer all of my previous response earlier (and that's quite curious isn't it?). You just answered the very end of it. This is just another reason that gives rise to suspicion as to a case of confirmation bias here.

For the second time, people misinterpret, forget, distort, unknowingly twist facts, or outright lie when it comes to their alleged extraordinary experiences (and these mishaps can increase when people are messing up their brains with poisonous brain altering drugs - as you alluded to earlier). Human interpretive experiential error is extremely common and since you don't have multiple attestations with repeat-ability you should be practicing skepticism toward your own methods of interpretation. "My experience..." isn't enough to establish what you are claiming (and it isn't enough for Persinger either - which is why he's trying to demonstrate his hypothesis instead of taking your route).

Regarding Persinger's experiments, they haven't been multiple attested and neither have they been independently verified (and Persinger is NOT doing what you are doing - just claiming it, holding onto it, and letting it lie. He's doing something and going through the scientific process, are you?). So again, skepticism should be the only path here until the work has been done (and that takes years). I know you want to hold onto your belief in the "spiritual", telepathy, etc, etc but you've jumped the gun - experiencing, self-diagnosing, believing, then defending (wrong!). Science works in quite a different manner (and Persinger knows this).

Btw, the video does not display people doing what you are doing. So it is a false comparison.

"I claim no more than dream sharing with pink Unicorns from Pluto." Human credulity, gullibility, and misapprehension require skepticism (and the scientific method) for separating fact from fiction. That is the approach you should be taking. Having done mind altering drugs and allegedly having a couple of 'telepathy' experiences (self diagnosing) should make you suspicious about your own interpretations and your ability to judge said experiences.

What critical investigation (and I do mean critical) have you done regarding your claim? Have you researched professional scientific answers to your claimed experience? Have you looked carefully at the professional opposing side that disagrees with you? If so, please elaborate. If not, then let's hold off on continuing this exercise until you have done so.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 12:52:54 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline DrPancake

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2013, 01:40:57 PM »
Re:topic title

A delusional narcissist who has no respect for those who won't grovel towards him?

Offline Nam

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2013, 01:52:58 PM »
Except for DrPancake's comment, and after reading all the comments, I find this topic overly boring.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline jdawg70

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2013, 02:02:06 PM »
No. I think the big bang did it's thing and here we are. The cosmic consciousness I see, if I can use a simple scenario, as a mainframe without software the we found and made our home, if you will, when we died. It was never sentient and only became so thanks to us.
Your analogy doesn't help at all.  I cannot fathom any difference between 'cosmic consciousness' and 'objective reality' at this point; 'objective reality' being the 'mainframe' that our consciousness 'runs on'.
Quote
I do not have a God of the gaps.
Until you start describing some aspect of what the 'cosmic consciousness' is and not just what it is not, I'm afraid all you really have is a 'god of the gaps' type claim.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2013, 02:23:09 PM »
It is hard to say about such things but the pleasure and pain I experiences is not spoken of by anyone that I have heard of

You don't have to look very far, to find that your brain can manufacture painful experiences, when triggered the right way

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23788
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/514087-DMT-First-time-Bad-Trip
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=36721

I've heard someone who has done a "bad" LSD trip, say that a "flashback" is not due to some chemical residue, but your brain leaving a permanent path back to that trip state, like your brain has been remapped. A sequence of lights, or something emotionally similar to the trip, can put you back in there. This being the case, it's possible that a person can spontaneously have whacked-out experiences, without an apparent trigger.

Quote
Absolutely but not much and no, no hallucinogens were involves either the first time I did telepathy with my wife, it was early morning, nor the second time when I found the cosmic consciousness.

Telepathic experiences are moderately common with DMT and Ayahuasca, but conveniently, nobody ever comes back with any evidence.
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=7551

I did. My wife as my victim to testify.
That is all the evidence I need.
I don't care of the evidence against.

If Randy accepted two lie detector tests as evidence I might be a million bucks richer, but alas.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2013, 02:32:21 PM »
No. I think the big bang did it's thing and here we are. The cosmic consciousness I see, if I can use a simple scenario, as a mainframe without software the we found and made our home, if you will, when we died. It was never sentient and only became so thanks to us.
Your analogy doesn't help at all.  I cannot fathom any difference between 'cosmic consciousness' and 'objective reality' at this point; 'objective reality' being the 'mainframe' that our consciousness 'runs on'.
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I do not have a God of the gaps.
Until you start describing some aspect of what the 'cosmic consciousness' is and not just what it is not, I'm afraid all you really have is a 'god of the gaps' type claim.

We have about 4 basic definitions for consciousness in the West and I understand that the East has about 8.

We cannot even understand our own consciousness and you want a full explanation of the cosmic consciousness and then some. Try going into your own mind and trying to see how it works.

Explain it to me.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2013, 02:40:54 PM »
We have about 4 basic definitions for consciousness in the West and I understand that the East has about 8.

We cannot even understand our own consciousness and you want a full explanation of the cosmic consciousness and then some. Try going into your own mind and trying to see how it works.

Explain it to me.
Is this a rabbit season/duck season thing?  I'm not the one declaring that 'the cosmic consciousness' exists - why the sh*t do I have any responsibility in defining any aspect of it?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2013, 02:47:34 PM »
I did. My wife as my victim to testify.
That is all the evidence I need.
I don't care of the evidence against.
I can't think of a more obvious example of confirmation bias than the above.
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If Randy accepted two lie detector tests as evidence I might be a million bucks richer, but alas.
Just because someone thinks they are telling the truth doesn't mean that what they are saying is objectively true.  But you know that, right[1]?
 1. not to mention the simplicity in tricking a lie detector
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2013, 02:24:24 PM »
We have about 4 basic definitions for consciousness in the West and I understand that the East has about 8.

We cannot even understand our own consciousness and you want a full explanation of the cosmic consciousness and then some. Try going into your own mind and trying to see how it works.

Explain it to me.
Is this a rabbit season/duck season thing?  I'm not the one declaring that 'the cosmic consciousness' exists - why the sh*t do I have any responsibility in defining any aspect of it?

Not what I asked.

I asked you to define your own just to see how impossible it is to do so.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2013, 02:25:28 PM »
I did. My wife as my victim to testify.
That is all the evidence I need.
I don't care of the evidence against.
I can't think of a more obvious example of confirmation bias than the above.
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If Randy accepted two lie detector tests as evidence I might be a million bucks richer, but alas.
Just because someone thinks they are telling the truth doesn't mean that what they are saying is objectively true.  But you know that, right[1]?
 1. not to mention the simplicity in tricking a lie detector

Do you know when you are speaking a truth?

So do I.

Regards
DL

Offline median

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2013, 03:07:12 PM »

Do you know when you are speaking a truth?

So do I.

Regards
DL

The assumption you just made with this question commits the fallacy called Complex Question. The correct answer is: It depends! Lots of people CLAIM to "know" they are "speaking a truth" (Christians claim this all the time and can't back it up). Sound familiar? Since human beings are prone to grievous error, through misinterpretation, false memory, and emotional based confirmation bias, there is significant reason to doubt extraordinary claims of this type (even for the one who claims to have "experienced" something). The interpretation of that experience is what matters and since (again) many people falsely interpret specific said experiences we should practice skepticism until such alleged claims can be confirmed and/or falsified.

Self diagnosis, the great potential for confirmation bias, numerous examples of human error in judgment, and the inherent non-falsifiable, non-verifiable and/or 'closed-off' nature of such extraordinary claims ought to be cause for concern and skepticism.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2013, 03:17:09 PM »
Christians read from what is obviously a book of myths and tell us they believe it. I am going by personal experience.

There is quite a difference.

Regards
DL

 

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2013, 03:27:14 PM »
Christians read from what is obviously a book of myths and tell us they believe it. I am going by personal experience.

There is quite a difference.

Regards
DL

This is extremely inaccurate. When pressed on issues of demonstrating their claims Christians overwhelmingly default to "my experience" (your same tactic) in the end. "It doesn't matter if it sounds irrational b/c I experienced God. I know he's real and you can't tell me otherwise b/c I know what I experienced! Lalalala!!!" Yet they DON'T know what they "experienced". They are self-diagnosing.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2013, 10:22:04 AM »
Christians read from what is obviously a book of myths and tell us they believe it. I am going by personal experience.

There is quite a difference.
And what about the Christians (and Muslims, Hindus, Taoists, etc.) that do go by personal experience?

Do you not recognize the fault of extrapolating merely personal experience[1] to objective truths?
 1. as opposed to personal experience and objective evidence
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2013, 10:23:51 AM »
Do you know when you are speaking a truth?

So do I.
I know when I think I'm speaking the truth.  I also no I'm not an infallible creature and am capable of objectively being wrong.  You know, honestly mistaken.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

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Re: Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2013, 10:31:40 AM »
Not what I asked.

I asked you to define your own just to see how impossible it is to do so.
Let's just say that I can't define 'cosmic consciousness'.  If I can't, and I point and say "there's cosmic consciousness", what, pray tell, would cause you to accept that claim?  Seeing as how I can't define any aspect of it?

I'm afraid that we're probably just going to talk in circles here.  You're rather married to this idea that 'the cosmic consciousness exists' without any sort of...anything...to indicate that this claim is true.  And, frankly, it won't matter what I say:
That is all the evidence I need.
I don't care of the evidence against.
No matter what I say, you've got the above catch-all filter to ensure that you can continue believing whatever you want to believe.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/