Poll

Would this experiment really prove it?

yes
3 (11.1%)
no
24 (88.9%)

Total Members Voted: 27

Author Topic: Experiment to prove God isn't real.  (Read 1631 times)

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Offline Shaffy

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Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« on: November 11, 2013, 09:14:51 PM »
For this experiment, we need to find a deserving person who has had both of his legs amputated. For example, find a sincere, devout veteran of the Iraqi war, or a person who was involved in a tragic automobile accident.
Now create a prayer circle like the one created for Jeanna Giese. The job of this prayer circle is simple: pray to God to restore the amputated legs of this deserving person.
I do not mean to pray for a team of renowned surgeons to somehow graft the legs of a cadaver onto the soldier, nor for a team of renowned scientists to craft mechanical legs for him. Pray that God spontaneously and miraculously restores the soldier's legs overnight, in the same way that God spontaneously and miraculously cured Jeanna Giese and Marilyn Hickey's mother.

FOUND HERE: http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/fundamentalist-theologian-asks-%E2%80%9Cwhy-won%E2%80%99t-god-heal-amputees%E2%80%9D-and-%E2%80%9Cwhy-does-god-hate-amputee

Please leave thoughts below :)

-Shaffy
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Offline Fiji

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2013, 03:26:38 AM »
There are a million ways this won't work. Your first hurdle, which you'll never be able to cross is finding that deserving person. Just look at the Westboro looneybin boys. They consider veterans from the Iraqi war (or indeed any war) as 'fags'[1]. You'll never be able to get any amputee that all christians agree is deserving. Some will even reason that simply the fact that he IS an amputee proves that god has it in for him and that he thus can't possibly be deserving.

 1. their prefered term for anyone they don't like ... which is pretty much everyone on this planet
Science: I'll believe it when I see it
Faith: I'll see it when I believe it

Schrodinger's thunderdome! One cat enters and one MIGHT leave!

Without life, god has no meaning.

Online Ataraxia

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2013, 03:33:17 AM »
The experiment is based on methodological naturalism. That rules out proving God is/isn't real straight away.
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Offline William

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2013, 04:02:10 AM »
From an ethical point of view, any "deserving person" doesn't need to be emotionally jerked around this way  :blank:
Git mit uns

Offline Shaffy

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2013, 07:03:18 AM »
There are a million ways this won't work. Your first hurdle, which you'll never be able to cross is finding that deserving person. Just look at the Westboro looneybin boys. They consider veterans from the Iraqi war (or indeed any war) as 'fags'[1]. You'll never be able to get any amputee that all christians agree is deserving. Some will even reason that simply the fact that he IS an amputee proves that god has it in for him and that he thus can't possibly be deserving.
 1. their prefered term for anyone they don't like ... which is pretty much everyone on this planet

Yes I agree 100% just wanted to see if anyone thought this would actually be valid... :P
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 07:19:35 AM by Shaffy »
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Offline Shaffy

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2013, 07:09:34 AM »
From an ethical point of view, any "deserving person" doesn't need to be emotionally jerked around this way  :blank:

I agree 100% ;D
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 07:18:47 AM by Shaffy »
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Online Mrjason

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2013, 07:32:02 AM »
I voted no.

Even if the limbs did grow back you still couldn't rule out intervention from other sources (benevolent aliens, pixies etc) or even natural spontaneous regrowth, also there's nothing in thermodynamics that says that entropy can't decrease[1] and new limbs spontaneously appear, just that it is unlikely.

So, without further investigation, this test would prove nothing other than an amputee can regrow limbs. A lot more detective work would be needed to assign a definite (or even probable) cause for the regrowth.

All in all, even with a positive outcome, this experiment is not really that much different from a spontaneous remission of cancer being attributed a prayer circle and divine intervention.
 1. I think, someone with a better knowledge of the subject correct me if I'm wrong please
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 07:37:08 AM by Mrjason »

Offline Shaffy

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2013, 08:11:09 AM »
I voted no.

Even if the limbs did grow back you still couldn't rule out intervention from other sources (benevolent aliens, pixies etc) or even natural spontaneous regrowth, also there's nothing in thermodynamics that says that entropy can't decrease[1] and new limbs spontaneously appear, just that it is unlikely.

So, without further investigation, this test would prove nothing other than an amputee can regrow limbs. A lot more detective work would be needed to assign a definite (or even probable) cause for the regrowth.

All in all, even with a positive outcome, this experiment is not really that much different from a spontaneous remission of cancer being attributed a prayer circle and divine intervention.
 1. I think, someone with a better knowledge of the subject correct me if I'm wrong please

This is what I thought...thanks for voting :)
We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it.

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Offline neopagan

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2013, 09:53:39 AM »
I vote no:

Standard theist reply/excuse (when it failed) would be:

Luke 4:12: And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline G-Roll

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2013, 10:09:58 AM »
The lord works in mysterious ways! If the solider lost both his legs I am sure God had planned it and knows why. We as a people are lost and cannot see the forest through the trees! He is so above us that we could never understand his divine plan. Now let me explain that plan with all the confidence of a smiling lawyer.
   
If the legs did grow back I want to be there and be the guy that shouts Zeus be praised!

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2013, 10:39:43 AM »
It shouldn't be that hard. Innocent victims aren't required. I'll do it. If god is real, he can't be too happy with me. I've been an atheist for over 50 years. What he could do is have me drop dead today. If I do that, it might not prove that there is a god, but it would lend at least some credence to the rumors of his existence.

I'll let you know tomorrow if he was interested in participating in this experiment. Since he isn't real though, he'll cop out, and a bunch of people will make excuses for him. But hey, maybe I'm wrong. I may be a typing dead man at this very moment.

Not!

I once said something similar to a theist and he told me I shouldn't tempt god. I told him I wasn't. Again, because there isn't one.

Hey, I'll settle for getting critically injured, perhaps paralyzed for life, or being a multiple amputee. Anything. If others can suffer in this world, I'm should get to too. Let me have it god. If you exist. Which you don't.



Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline G-Roll

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2013, 11:02:56 AM »
LMAO you still alive ParkingPlaces?

Online One Above All

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2013, 11:05:03 AM »
No matter the experiment, theists will always find a hole to cram their god into. If there isn't one, they'll start digging.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2013, 11:10:43 AM »
LMAO you still alive ParkingPlaces?

Right now I am, but all I've done is walk across an icy patio with my hands in my pockets and chop wood. No slips, no heart attacks. Of course god may not have checked the site yet this morning, and hence be unaware of my challenge. My suspicion is that he may know all, but he doesn't really pay much attention. It may take til noon before he hears about this. IF he exists.

Again, he doesn't.

If the dude can sit back and watch 10K Filipinos drown, I'm sure he won't be bothered by my demise either. And hey, who would know if I, like you know, slipped or something.

The christian excuse will be that he's a wimp. That he's an ineffective, missing and hard to understand deity who is also agoraphobic. But since I live alone in the woods, that last one ain't gonna cut it.

Edit: I keep having to try to please Nam with my english and stuff, so I though I'd better fix a couple things.  ;D
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2013, 11:17:57 AM »
No matter the experiment, theists will always find a hole to cram their god into. If there isn't one, they'll start digging.
Run an experiment and get a result that runs counter to your expectations or desires?

1) Faith
  1a) Need more of it
  1b) Someone else needs more of it
2) Mysterious ways
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Offline Shaffy

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2013, 11:32:48 AM »
It shouldn't be that hard. Innocent victims aren't required. I'll do it. If god is real, he can't be too happy with me. I've been an atheist for over 50 years. What he could do is have me drop dead today. If I do that, it might not prove that there is a god, but it would lend at least some credence to the rumors of his existence.

I'll let you know tomorrow if he was interested in participating in this experiment. Since he isn't real though, he'll cop out, and a bunch of people will make excuses for him. But hey, maybe I'm wrong. I may be a typing dead man at this very moment.

Not!

I once said something similar to a theist and he told me I shouldn't tempt god. I told him I wasn't. Again, because there isn't one.

Hey, I'll settle for getting critically injured, perhaps paralyzed for life, or being a multiple amputee. Anything. If others can suffer in this world, I'm should get to too. Let me have it god. If you exist. Which you don't.

It's amazing how strong you are to be certain about their is no god.I am an atheist but very young, I sometimes wonder if I am wrong that their is no God. You inspire me to stay true to myself and not listen to the 96% religion BS. I think with age I will be able to write what you wrote about dying while writing a post :) Thank you for keeping me with my beliefs  :laugh: Life has been so much more amazing knowing their is no god and it's just you and your life :)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 11:51:42 AM by Shaffy »
We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it.

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2013, 08:48:25 PM »
It shouldn't be that hard. Innocent victims aren't required. I'll do it. If god is real, he can't be too happy with me. I've been an atheist for over 50 years. What he could do is have me drop dead today. If I do that, it might not prove that there is a god, but it would lend at least some credence to the rumors of his existence.

I'll let you know tomorrow if he was interested in participating in this experiment. Since he isn't real though, he'll cop out, and a bunch of people will make excuses for him. But hey, maybe I'm wrong. I may be a typing dead man at this very moment.

Not!

I once said something similar to a theist and he told me I shouldn't tempt god. I told him I wasn't. Again, because there isn't one.

Hey, I'll settle for getting critically injured, perhaps paralyzed for life, or being a multiple amputee. Anything. If others can suffer in this world, I'm should get to too. Let me have it god. If you exist. Which you don't.

It's amazing how strong you are to be certain about their is no god.I am an atheist but very young, I sometimes wonder if I am wrong that their is no God. You inspire me to stay true to myself and not listen to the 96% religion BS. I think with age I will be able to write what you wrote about dying while writing a post :) Thank you for keeping me with my beliefs  :laugh: Life has been so much more amazing knowing their is no god and it's just you and your life :)

Shaffy

First, I have to live until tomorrow morning. If I don't, you may want to rethink your position.  ;D

You have a life to live. It is going to be complex enough without a god story to go along with it. Being alive is fantastic, hard to understand, scary sometimes, and lots of fun other times. When you don't believe in god, you have a definite advantage. When the fit hits the shan, you don't have to take the time to wonder why god would let such a thing happen. You can go ahead and respond as needed without taking the time out to wonder what the heck god was up to.

It saves so much time and energy.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Antidote

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2013, 08:56:50 PM »
I'm going to have to say no, simply due to the fact that you can't prove a negative. It's also not our responsibility to "prove" a god doesn't exist, it's the job of the theist to provide evidence, and they have yet to meet their burden of proof.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

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Offline Shaffy

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2013, 09:57:54 PM »
It shouldn't be that hard. Innocent victims aren't required. I'll do it. If god is real, he can't be too happy with me. I've been an atheist for over 50 years. What he could do is have me drop dead today. If I do that, it might not prove that there is a god, but it would lend at least some credence to the rumors of his existence.

I'll let you know tomorrow if he was interested in participating in this experiment. Since he isn't real though, he'll cop out, and a bunch of people will make excuses for him. But hey, maybe I'm wrong. I may be a typing dead man at this very moment.

Not!

I once said something similar to a theist and he told me I shouldn't tempt god. I told him I wasn't. Again, because there isn't one.

Hey, I'll settle for getting critically injured, perhaps paralyzed for life, or being a multiple amputee. Anything. If others can suffer in this world, I'm should get to too. Let me have it god. If you exist. Which you don't.

It's amazing how strong you are to be certain about their is no god.I am an atheist but very young, I sometimes wonder if I am wrong that their is no God. You inspire me to stay true to myself and not listen to the 96% religion BS. I think with age I will be able to write what you wrote about dying while writing a post :) Thank you for keeping me with my beliefs  :laugh: Life has been so much more amazing knowing their is no god and it's just you and your life :)

Shaffy

First, I have to live until tomorrow morning. If I don't, you may want to rethink your position.  ;D

You have a life to live. It is going to be complex enough without a god story to go along with it. Being alive is fantastic, hard to understand, scary sometimes, and lots of fun other times. When you don't believe in god, you have a definite advantage. When the fit hits the shan, you don't have to take the time to wonder why god would let such a thing happen. You can go ahead and respond as needed without taking the time out to wonder what the heck god was up to.

It saves so much time and energy.

This is genius. :D Agree with you 100%.The death of family memebrs has also been easier on me knowing know one had any control over it. Thanks for this.

-Shaffy
We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it.

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Online Ataraxia

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2013, 02:46:59 AM »
I'm going to have to say no, simply due to the fact that you can't prove a negative. It's also not our responsibility to "prove" a god doesn't exist, it's the job of the theist to provide evidence, and they have yet to meet their burden of proof.

Sorry, but you can prove a negative. What you're alluding to is the adoption of the null hypothesis.

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=You_can't_prove_a_negative
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2013, 04:57:28 AM »
I've been an atheist for over 50 years. What he could do is have me drop dead today. If I do that, it might not prove that there is a god, but it would lend at least some credence to the rumors of his existence

I always worry about such statements:

The market cross in the market square in the Wiltshire town of Devizes, UK contains the following inscription:

On Thursday, 25th January, 1753,
RUTH PEARCE
of Potterne, in this County,
Agreed with Three other Women to buy a Sack of Wheat
in the Market, each paying her due proportion towards the same.
One of these Women, in collecting the several quotas of
Money, discovered a deficiency, and demanded of
RUTH PEARCE the sum which was wanting
to make good the Amount.
RUTH PEARCE protested that she had paid her Share,
and said she wished she might drop dead if she
had not. — She rashly repeated this awful wish; –
when, to the consternation and terror of the surrounding
multitude, she instantly fell down and expired,
having the money concealed in her hand.

The churches were full to overflowing in the following months...


RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2013, 11:42:12 AM »
For those of you concerned about my well being, I made it through the day without being smited. I assume god was too busy killing the young mother of three in a car wreck, giving little boys cancer and such. I understand.

Granted, I didn't give him many opportunities. Yea, I drove on icy roads yesterday, operated chain saws and big electric saws and ate at McDonalds, but I just may have not afforded him an opportunity to snuff my atheist butt. But I hope he doesn't expect me to keep this challenge up forever, so that when he does get around to it he can take all the credit. I gave him a day. I'll take full responsibility for my death now. Whenever that may be.

Of course I'm secretly hoping that my incompetence will prevent anything like that from ever happening.  ;D

Of course this exercise has proven nothing. Those that insist that a god exists can find their way around any and all challenges to their beliefs. That's the nice thing about faith. You get to make stuff up left and right, label it truth, and live happily ever after. If you don't count he fear of hell and stuff.

But I made it. So WWGHA is stuck with me for a least a little while longer.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Astreja

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2013, 12:13:35 PM »
ParkingPlaces, I'm beginning to think that any gods responsible for injuries are using the rules from the old Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Masters' Guide, because the allotment of hits and misses seems to be rolled up on a D20.  I shuddered when you described walking across that patch of ice, because I failed a saving throw versus ice last April and tore My hamstring.

(Springy G wonders what She did with her copy of Deities and Demigods, although She doesn't remember seeing a God of Physical Rehabilitation in that particular tome...)

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Offline Emily

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2013, 12:42:54 PM »
Ate at McDonald's, huh?!? When you have a heart attack when you're 95 years old you better then start to regret that you challenged god to smite you.  ;)

God just marked it on his calender. Smite PP when he's 95 years old for the challenge he made to me November 12th 2013. That'll show him!!! MUAH!!!!!

When I think of everything I've done in my life I am surprised to have made it this long. My list of sinning, and other crap that should have killed me is a couple miles long. I wonder why he hasn't done anything to my life yet. I had a baby in June - that would have been a good time to smite me down, I'd think.

I like how George Carlin put it:

In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!

http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm

I always think about the horrible crap that happens in the world. The natural disasters like in the Philippines; the Tsunami in Japan; the tornado in MO, Hurricane Katrina; Sandy Hook;  the shooting in Colorado, etc. I wonder how many of those whose lives were impacted were Christian. And here I am, lil' atheist/sinner/god's name in vainer, blasphemy challenge taker Emily, still plugging away in life.

Kind of sad, isn't it?!? That evil god-hater Dr. Richard Dawkins in still alive, but AHAH! god killed Chrisopher Hitchens (even though his drinking and smoking might have played a role in it. :-\ )
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 12:48:49 PM by Emily »
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I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline sun_king

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2013, 12:44:16 PM »
<snip>
But I made it. So WWGHA is stuck with me for a least a little while longer.

ParkingPlaces, did you think for a moment on what would have happened if you had an ISP failure and got cut off for a couple of days?

Offline neopagan

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2013, 01:13:37 PM »
I should be long dead... after lovin' on jeezus for 30+ years and then turning my back on his wimpy ass a year ago.  PP, you at least have the excuse of having been in darkness all these years - I "was in the light and rejected it, so my punishment is sealed."[1]

Emily, 2 mile list worth of sinning...? Jeesh, I'll have to go the the aforementioned gospel for some advice for you.  I bet it's as compelling as what I got - you are doomed to hell.  Sorry  (I'll save you a hot seat)  ;)
 1. The Gospel of Fundy Spouse Chapter 2, verse 3
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2013, 09:46:03 AM »
I doubt you would be able to find a single theist willing to pray for it because they know it wont happen.

Offline Boots

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2014, 11:15:30 AM »
Now create a prayer circle like the one created for Jeanna Giese. The job of this prayer circle is simple: pray to God to restore the amputated legs of this deserving person.

Which one?
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Experiment to prove God isn't real.
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2014, 03:58:36 PM »
I think the quick answer is probably be going to come for a theist that 'one shall not put the Lord your God to the test'. If that were the case, then of course god would ignore the test and nothing would be proved.

In the case of Jeanna Giese there is a more mundane explanation for here cure and it has nothing to do with god. The doctor treating here put her into a coma on the basis that the comatose brain would not be affected, as normal one, with the rabies bug. Good scientific reasons and it worked. The prayer circle was something for the people to do whilst medicine cure here.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)