Author Topic: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?  (Read 4702 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #174 on: November 11, 2013, 01:19:20 AM »
You say you do things that are spite or hurtful,knowing they are wrong,why?

Same reason as anyone else...selfishness, pride, envy, greed, stubbornness, malice.

That's not to say I revel in those things, or take pride in them. I hate that I do bad things and I fight against it. What I don't do is blithely carry on doing the wrong things thinking that I am sorted because of Jesus and therefore I can just do whatever. I don't know any Christian who has that attitude.

You have not responded to those links I provided; Are you sure that god is not OK with rape?

I missed that post amongst all the others, apologies. And yes, I am quite sure. Perhaps one day we can discuss it in some detail. I really don't have the time now...I actually still need to provide substantial responses in some older threads first. I was just reading this thread quickly and couldn't resist answering 12M on something...and then Astreja...I'm easily drawn into these things.  :P

Well, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to say that you're mistaken about that. god[1] commanded that the rapist pay the father of the victim and MARRY said victim, he also commanded that his "soldiers" take the women for themselves, and I doubt those women were willing participants.
 1. I refuse to capitalize
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4593
  • Darwins +104/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #175 on: November 11, 2013, 01:21:09 AM »
You say you do things that are spite or hurtful,knowing they are wrong,why?

Same reason as anyone else...selfishness, pride, envy, greed, stubbornness, malice.

That's not to say I revel in those things, or take pride in them. I hate that I do bad things and I fight against it. What I don't do is blithely carry on doing the wrong things thinking that I am sorted because of Jesus and therefore I can just do whatever. I don't know any Christian who has that attitude.
You still do spiteful or hurtful things knowing you will be forgiven,through Jesus,why does your belief in Jesus excuse you from doing ANY hurtful things?

 Wouldn't your wanting to live like Jesus stop these feelings of pride,envy,greed,malice and the like? Before you do something you have knowledge of being hurtful/spiteful,would thought of how Jesus would do it stop you? If wanting to be like Jesus is not enough to stop you,what would?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline magicmiles

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2829
  • Darwins +175/-73
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #176 on: November 11, 2013, 01:38:24 AM »
You still do spiteful or hurtful things knowing you will be forgiven,through Jesus,

So long as you undesrtand that I don't do those things because I know I will be forgiven.


why does your belief in Jesus excuse you from doing ANY hurtful things?

It doesn't excuse me. I'm guilty. But God chooses to pardon me, because Jesus chose to take the punishment I deserve, and that God's justice demanded. Thats the gospel message.


Wouldn't your wanting to live like Jesus stop these feelings of pride,envy,greed,malice and the like? Before you do something you have knowledge of being hurtful/spiteful,would thought of how Jesus would do it stop you?

Sometimes. Not always.


If wanting to be like Jesus is not enough to stop you,what would?

Nothing can stop all wrong-doing.
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #177 on: November 11, 2013, 01:52:23 AM »

If wanting to be like Jesus is not enough to stop you,what would?

Nothing can stop all wrong-doing.

So you admit your god is not all powerful?
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12235
  • Darwins +269/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #178 on: November 11, 2013, 01:56:05 AM »
You can answer your own question by undertaking the following exercise:

Think of all the things you have done in your life that were harmful to others, whether in a minor or major way. Then, consider whether you did those things because you genuinely thought they were OK to do, or if you did them in spite of knowing they were not OK to do.

So, you're asking him to think of the things he's done in his life that he believes are bad...and answer whether he believes them to be bad.

What is this supposed to demonstrate, again?

That isn't how I phrased my question.

No, it is a paraphrase.  And that is what it boils down to.

What is this supposed to demonstrate, again?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2529
  • Darwins +45/-416
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #179 on: November 11, 2013, 01:56:30 AM »
So you admit your god is not all powerful?

God gives us a choice. Just like how your parents give you a choice of living with them and paying rent, or going out on your own. If they choose to move out, is the parent wrong for not just sending their child a weekly check while they have no job? Would the child have a right to curse his parents for making him get a job instead of being handed weekly checks by his parents?

It sounds like you guys want God to be the "give me everything" type of parent instead of the "tough love, you're on your own" parent.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #180 on: November 11, 2013, 01:57:50 AM »
So you admit your god is not all powerful?

God gives us a choice. Just like how your parents give you a choice of living with them and paying rent, or going out on your own. If they choose to move out, is the parent wrong for not just sending their child a weekly check while they have no job? Would the child have a right to curse his parents for making him get a job instead of being handed weekly cheeks by his parents?

It sounds like you guys want God to be the "give me everything" type of parent instead of the "tough love, you're on your own" parent.

Nothing can stop all wrong-doing.

Is god nothing? If so I rest my case.

I'm not asking god to do anything, I can't ask what I don't believe exists. And don't use the whole "You're only mad at god because he didn't answer your prayers" non-argument, I've never prayed for anything in my life.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 01:59:51 AM by Antidote »
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2529
  • Darwins +45/-416
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #181 on: November 11, 2013, 02:00:23 AM »
Is god nothing? If so I rest my case.

It has nothing to do with how powerful God is. It has to do with choices.

Just like how the parent has the funds to keep handing his kid money every single week, but he makes him get a job instead. Of course the parent is powerful enough to spoil his kid, but he chooses not to.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline magicmiles

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2829
  • Darwins +175/-73
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #182 on: November 11, 2013, 02:01:34 AM »

If wanting to be like Jesus is not enough to stop you,what would?

Nothing can stop all wrong-doing.

So you admit your god is not all powerful?

That sort of depends on how 'all powerful' is defined. He can't create a rock so heavy that He can't lift it, for instance.

I'm sure I don't have the exact correct understanding of all Gods qualities.
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline magicmiles

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2829
  • Darwins +175/-73
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #183 on: November 11, 2013, 02:14:05 AM »
You can answer your own question by undertaking the following exercise:

Think of all the things you have done in your life that were harmful to others, whether in a minor or major way. Then, consider whether you did those things because you genuinely thought they were OK to do, or if you did them in spite of knowing they were not OK to do.

So, you're asking him to think of the things he's done in his life that he believes are bad...and answer whether he believes them to be bad.

What is this supposed to demonstrate, again?

That isn't how I phrased my question.

No, it is a paraphrase.  And that is what it boils down to.

What is this supposed to demonstrate, again?

The way I phrased it was important. I first asked for a consideration of actions 12M had taken that may have been harmful or hurtful to others. At that point I did not make any suggestions as to whether 12M considered his actions OK or not OK. It wasn't assumed, whereas in your paraphrase it was.

I asked the question as I believed 12M would accept that most of the things he has done wrong, he knew were wrong. To me , that provided an answer to the question 12M posed about why would priests would do something if not because they thought it was OK.
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #184 on: November 11, 2013, 02:15:30 AM »

If wanting to be like Jesus is not enough to stop you,what would?

Nothing can stop all wrong-doing.

So you admit your god is not all powerful?

That sort of depends on how 'all powerful' is defined. He can't create a rock so heavy that He can't lift it, for instance.

I'm sure I don't have the exact correct understanding of all Gods qualities.

You say nothing can stop all wrong doing, one of god's supposed qualities is omnipotence, if nothing can stop all wrong-doing then he isn't all powerful.

Unwilling is one thing, incapable is something entirely different.
You implied that he was incapable of doing it by claiming nothing can stop all wrong doing.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #185 on: November 11, 2013, 02:16:27 AM »
Is god nothing? If so I rest my case.

It has nothing to do with how powerful God is. ...

Yes it does, please refer to my previous post.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2529
  • Darwins +45/-416
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #186 on: November 11, 2013, 02:28:31 AM »
Yes it does, please refer to my previous post.

No, it doesn't. Just like a father refusing to give his son free checks every week doesn't mean the father isn't powerful enough to give his son free checks.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jonny-UK

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
  • Darwins +31/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #187 on: November 11, 2013, 02:30:16 AM »
My qualifications are simply that children should be taught the controversy. You can teach evolution, but teach creationism as well.
I knew I'd heard that quote before-

This is a truly cringeworthy piece of television, I know it's long but its so bad you just have to watch it all.
She does remind me of skep, even when faced with undeniable facts she simply dodges the points.
Quote
There's really no reason to deny creationism except for a fear that children will choose that option and irritate the atheists.
Unless you want to actually teach the truth and try to stop children quoting this nonsense when they are adults, to knowingly teach creationism as fact is simply not fair.
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #188 on: November 11, 2013, 02:37:41 AM »
Yes it does, please refer to my previous post.

No, it doesn't. Just like a father refusing to give his son free checks every week doesn't mean the father isn't powerful enough to give his son free checks.
You're ignoring my point, once again you're dodging the initial question.

The claim MM made was that NOTHING can stop all wrong doing.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 02:39:32 AM by Antidote »
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline magicmiles

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2829
  • Darwins +175/-73
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #189 on: November 11, 2013, 02:40:41 AM »

If wanting to be like Jesus is not enough to stop you,what would?

Nothing can stop all wrong-doing.

So you admit your god is not all powerful?

That sort of depends on how 'all powerful' is defined. He can't create a rock so heavy that He can't lift it, for instance.

I'm sure I don't have the exact correct understanding of all Gods qualities.

You say nothing can stop all wrong doing, one of god's supposed qualities is omnipotence, if nothing can stop all wrong-doing then he isn't all powerful.

Unwilling is one thing, incapable is something entirely different.
You implied that he was incapable of doing it by claiming nothing can stop all wrong doing.

I've bolded the more important part of my post. In any event, having thought about it some more, I think its probably more correct to say there's nothing we can do to stop wrong doing in mankind. I imagine God could stop all further wrong-doing by simply wiping us from existence.[1].

This is just one of many things Atheists[2] question about God that I'll never be able to convincingly answer. Thats OK with me.
 1. although not via a flood
 2. I have enough capital for both of us
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2529
  • Darwins +45/-416
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #190 on: November 11, 2013, 02:42:35 AM »
The claim MM made was that NOTHING can stop all wrong doing.

Most likely hypoerbole.

Just like if someone says, "nothing is better than x!," they don't mean that literally doing nothing is better than x.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #191 on: November 11, 2013, 02:43:08 AM »

If wanting to be like Jesus is not enough to stop you,what would?

Nothing can stop all wrong-doing.

So you admit your god is not all powerful?

That sort of depends on how 'all powerful' is defined. He can't create a rock so heavy that He can't lift it, for instance.

I'm sure I don't have the exact correct understanding of all Gods qualities.

You say nothing can stop all wrong doing, one of god's supposed qualities is omnipotence, if nothing can stop all wrong-doing then he isn't all powerful.

Unwilling is one thing, incapable is something entirely different.
You implied that he was incapable of doing it by claiming nothing can stop all wrong doing.

I've bolded the more important part of my post. In any event, having thought about it some more, I think its probably more correct to say there's nothing we can do to stop wrong doing in mankind. I imagine God could stop all further wrong-doing by simply wiping us from existence.[1].

This is just one of many things Atheists[2] question about God that I'll never be able to convincingly answer. Thats OK with me.
 1. although not via a flood
 2. I have enough capital for both of us

I don't see how the bolded part affects my question, if anything it only strengthens my point.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #192 on: November 11, 2013, 02:44:19 AM »
The claim MM made was that NOTHING can stop all wrong doing.

Most likely hypoerbole.

Just like if someone says, "nothing is better than x!," they don't mean that literally doing nothing is better than x.

I've already stated once that hyperbole is useless in a serious discussion. You can't have a valid discourse and use hyperbole without explicitly stating it as such.
I also doubt that it was hyperbole.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12235
  • Darwins +269/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #193 on: November 11, 2013, 02:48:23 AM »
The way I phrased it was important. I first asked for a consideration of actions 12M had taken that may have been harmful or hurtful to others. At that point I did not make any suggestions as to whether 12M considered his actions OK or not OK. It wasn't assumed, whereas in your paraphrase it was.

Granted.  I guess I misread it.

I asked the question as I believed 12M would accept that most of the things he has done wrong, he knew were wrong. To me , that provided an answer to the question 12M posed about why would priests would do something if not because they thought it was OK.

You don't think they might have edited/rationalized their morality into believing that it was OK?  It's easy to assume that everyone is violating their own morality when they do things we find to be wrong.  Easy, lazy, and a great way to fail at understanding others' motives.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #194 on: November 11, 2013, 02:49:48 AM »
Most likely hypoerbole.

Just like if someone says, "nothing is better than x!," they don't mean that literally doing nothing is better than x.

If you are in a serious discussion, saying "nothing is better than X!" means that literally nothing is better than X.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #195 on: November 11, 2013, 02:51:13 AM »
Most likely hypoerbole.

Just like if someone says, "nothing is better than x!," they don't mean that literally doing nothing is better than x.

If you are in a serious discussion, saying "nothing is better than X!" means that literally nothing is better than X.
Exactly my point, it's sad that he doesn't seem to get it.

Also:
Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 02:53:17 AM by Antidote »
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline Add Homonym

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2709
  • Darwins +219/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I can haz jeezusburger™
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #196 on: November 11, 2013, 03:03:00 AM »

It doesn't excuse me. I'm guilty. But God chooses to pardon me, because Jesus chose to take the punishment I deserve, and that God's justice demanded. Thats the gospel message.


Sounds like the Quran to me. Allah lets people get into heaven if they are devout Muslims. The marketing strategy of Christianity is to tell people the bad news first, and then say, But don't worry, here's the good news. Then God has been rebadged as Jesus.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Add Homonym

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2709
  • Darwins +219/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I can haz jeezusburger™
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #197 on: November 11, 2013, 03:04:26 AM »
Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?

Why have an irrefutable argument, when you can have 17 partially convincing fallacies?
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline magicmiles

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2829
  • Darwins +175/-73
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #198 on: November 11, 2013, 03:05:39 AM »
The way I phrased it was important. I first asked for a consideration of actions 12M had taken that may have been harmful or hurtful to others. At that point I did not make any suggestions as to whether 12M considered his actions OK or not OK. It wasn't assumed, whereas in your paraphrase it was.

Granted.  I guess I misread it.

Thankyou.

I asked the question as I believed 12M would accept that most of the things he has done wrong, he knew were wrong. To me , that provided an answer to the question 12M posed about why would priests would do something if not because they thought it was OK.

You don't think they might have edited/rationalized their morality into believing that it was OK?

Good question. I'm sure there would be a great deal of rationalisation. However, that in itself does not mean you think you are genuinely doing the right thing. You don't need to edit or rationilise anything if you truly believe it is OK, in my view.

Or are you suggesting that if something is done often enough, the rationalisation becomes increasingly less and eventually you genuinely do believe you are doing something OK?


 It's easy to assume that everyone is violating their own morality when they do things we find to be wrong.  Easy, lazy, and a great way to fail at understanding others' motives.

There is some truth to that, of course. But in the specific behaviour being discussed, I believe it to be a reasonable assumption.
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #199 on: November 11, 2013, 03:08:57 AM »
Why have an irrefutable argument, when you can have 17 partiallyconvincing bullshit fallacies?

Fixed it for you, you are welcome.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12235
  • Darwins +269/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #200 on: November 11, 2013, 03:10:12 AM »
Or are you suggesting that if something is done often enough, the rationalisation becomes increasingly less and eventually you genuinely do believe you are doing something OK?

This.  People do get re-conditioned, both from internal and external stimuli.  Repetition isn't always needed.  Sometimes some profound personal experience, such as discovering Islam, is enough to genuinely change one's morality.

...or are you going to arrogantly declare any such changes to be "non-genuine" just like you arrogantly declare, for example, my atheism to be "non-genuine"?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline magicmiles

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2829
  • Darwins +175/-73
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #201 on: November 11, 2013, 03:10:43 AM »
Most likely hypoerbole.

Just like if someone says, "nothing is better than x!," they don't mean that literally doing nothing is better than x.

If you are in a serious discussion, saying "nothing is better than X!" means that literally nothing is better than X.

I'm sure everyone agrees with you.

Hang on: is that everyone reading this thread, or everyone in the whole world?
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #202 on: November 11, 2013, 03:13:20 AM »
I would assume "everyone" would imply people who sees it.

Your point is?
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.