Author Topic: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?  (Read 5795 times)

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Online Ron Jeremy

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #116 on: November 10, 2013, 06:32:30 PM »
CHRISTIANS; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
CHRISTIANS; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
CHRISTIANS; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
CHRISTIANS; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
CHRISTIANS; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
CHRISTIANS; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #117 on: November 10, 2013, 06:32:49 PM »
Is "getting the point" a sin in your religion, or something?

Not at all. I understand the points.

You guys are so invested in science, which is man made.
nobody has even explained how they know the half-life of certain elements. How do they know how much was in it to start with? it's unanswerable because I have asked scientists and they couldn't answer it. They repeated the half-lifes of elements, but didn't explain how they know the original amount that was in it.

It is not necessary to know how much there was to start with to calculate a half life. Any time baseline will do. Your demon is forcing you to make false claims about subjects you have never studied.
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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #118 on: November 10, 2013, 06:34:53 PM »
Wrong. Shep. Your DNA would show that some of your ancestors were Neanderthals if you have European roots.

You have not answered about your qualifications to discuss this. Why is your demon so afraid to answer.

of course it's going to show that. We were all made by the same God. So it's expected that things will be similar genetically.

Wrong Shep, they are identifiable because they are a different type of human with different DNA.

Your demon is here again.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #119 on: November 10, 2013, 06:35:23 PM »
It is not necessary to know how much there was to start with to calculate a half life. Any time baseline will do. Your demon is forcing you to make false claims about subjects you have never studied.

Then how do they calculate the half-life?

I hope it's not more assuming and guessing that scientists are famous for.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #120 on: November 10, 2013, 06:38:00 PM »
Wrong Shep, they are identifiable because they are a different type of human with different DNA.

Your demon is here again.

We have legs and salamanders have legs. This means salamanders are humans with different DNA!

Please stop with the silliness.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Antidote

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #121 on: November 10, 2013, 06:41:05 PM »
Wrong Shep, they are identifiable because they are a different type of human with different DNA.

Your demon is here again.

We have legs and salamanders have legs. This means salamanders are humans with different DNA!

Please stop with the silliness.

No, it just means that we both have common ancestry, (amphibians)
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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #122 on: November 10, 2013, 06:42:09 PM »
Wrong Shep, they are identifiable because they are a different type of human with different DNA.

Your demon is here again.

We have legs and salamanders have legs. This means salamanders are humans with different DNA!

Please stop with the silliness.

So you think salamanders are human? Please stop the silliness.
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Offline William

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #123 on: November 10, 2013, 06:43:11 PM »
That's a bumpluck.  Why would a God need to "show" anything?  Is it insecure?

i see.

So it is your position that painters are insecure?

A painter that needs to "show" is needy of recognition. In this case, according to you, your God had no appreciation or love for Neanderthals. It placed no value on them as beings. Else it would've created something or circumstances to prevent their extinction.  The trials of life for Neanderthals were nothing but a splash of paint on a canvass - with no purpose other than to impress you.

You're sick and an embarrassment to theists.
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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #124 on: November 10, 2013, 06:44:55 PM »
It is not necessary to know how much there was to start with to calculate a half life. Any time baseline will do. Your demon is forcing you to make false claims about subjects you have never studied.

Then how do they calculate the half-life?

I hope it's not more assuming and guessing that scientists are famous for.

The calculations are easy, any high school student could do them. It just involves things like logs and powers.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #125 on: November 10, 2013, 06:50:35 PM »
The calculations are easy, any high school student could do them. It just involves things like logs and powers.

And those thing were created by humans.

Thanks for proving my point.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #126 on: November 10, 2013, 06:52:09 PM »
That's a bumpluck.  Why would a God need to "show" anything?  Is it insecure?

i see.

So it is your position that painters are insecure?

A painter that needs to "show" is needy of recognition. In this case, according to you, your God had no appreciation or love for Neanderthals. It placed no value on them as beings. Else it would've created something or circumstances to prevent their extinction.  The trials of life for Neanderthals were nothing but a splash of paint on a canvass - with no purpose other than to impress you.

You're sick and an embarrassment to theists.

You are in no position to say that God places no value on them.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #127 on: November 10, 2013, 06:52:58 PM »
The calculations are easy, any high school student could do them. It just involves things like logs and powers.

And those thing were created by humans.

Thanks for proving my point.

Are you saying that mathematics does not give the correct result?
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Offline William

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #128 on: November 10, 2013, 06:54:08 PM »
You are in no position to say that God places no value on them.

Not me - it was you who implied it.  You said it was for "show".
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #129 on: November 10, 2013, 06:55:35 PM »
Are you saying that mathematics does not give the correct result?

Interesting you bring up mathematics.

Does math have a beginning or an end?

or is math eternal?  :o
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #130 on: November 10, 2013, 06:56:49 PM »
You are in no position to say that God places no value on them.

Not me - it was you who implied it.  You said it was for "show".

Well if God just created one planet and humans we would be saying, "This God lacks imagination and creativity."

Where do you think we get imagination and creativity from?
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #131 on: November 10, 2013, 07:00:24 PM »
Oh...i don't know...

Perhaps that organic supercomputer we have in our skulls?
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Offline William

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #132 on: November 10, 2013, 07:02:56 PM »
Well if God just created one planet and humans we would be saying, "This God lacks imagination and creativity."
No, we'd be saying this God is wasteful.


Where do you think we get imagination and creativity from?
Our big brains. 


Quote
The ability of humans to create art, think rationally or invent new tools has long interested scientists, and a new study reveals how the brain achieves these imaginative feats.
http://www.livescience.com/39671-roots-of-creativity-found-in-brain.html
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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #133 on: November 10, 2013, 07:04:24 PM »
Are you saying that mathematics does not give the correct result?

Interesting you bring up mathematics.

Does math have a beginning or an end?

or is math eternal?  :o

You did not answer the question. Why does your demon avoid giving answers?
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #134 on: November 10, 2013, 07:05:21 PM »
Well if God just created one planet and humans we would be saying, "This God lacks imagination and creativity."

Where do you think we get imagination and creativity from?

Do you have anything that isn't an argument from ignorance/ incredulity?  Right now, your "points" are either those, a strawman, or some mix of the three.
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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #135 on: November 10, 2013, 07:06:41 PM »
I assume that because Skep is studiously avoiding the original question, he has no irrefutable proof that his particular god exists?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline Antidote

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #136 on: November 10, 2013, 07:07:53 PM »
Are you saying that mathematics does not give the correct result?

Interesting you bring up mathematics.

Does math have a beginning or an end?

or is math eternal?  :o
Math was invented by man, thus it has a beginning, and will disappear when the human race goes extinct, therefore it has both a beginning and an end, the fact that it has strong predictive capabilities in the real world is beside the point.

Another race of intelligence may have a completely different form of math that we couldn't possibly comprehend.
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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #137 on: November 10, 2013, 07:23:35 PM »
Shep,

You are avoiding questions so much now that I think you are not serious about what you are saying. I think you are just messing around. I know what you are saying is ridiculous and you know that you are ridiculous too.

Do you want to answer the questions.

Do you think that mathematics does not give the correct result?

What are your qualifications for making the assertions you have made on this site?

You know you were lying when you said you loved education. It is another example of your demon's lawlessness.

"When the person who is lawless comes, it will happen through Satan's effort, with all kinds of fake power, signs and wonders" 2 thes 2:9 common English bible.

But I would do away with all laws. No reason to have them.


Speaking lies and doctrines of devils: that describes you Shep. You see evil in other people just because of jokes they have made. You make up false information and lies about subjects which you know nothing about.

Demons have convinced some people that eating meat is a bad thing:

1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Tim 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1 Tim 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 08:53:21 PM by Foxy Freedom »
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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #138 on: November 10, 2013, 07:55:22 PM »

Then how do they calculate the half-life?

Half-lifeWiki and do you know..? It works and is pretty reliable: variations in decay rates of a given atom are exceedingly small. We non-superstitious people have known about this since 1907. You have some catching up to do. The math is not difficult but I'll admit that if you don't know a lot it can look strange.
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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #139 on: November 10, 2013, 08:47:03 PM »
moral argument
Which is badly flawed, since morality tends to vary widely between cultures and even within them.  The fact that you have to claim that demons are responsible for this is a dead giveaway of just how badly flawed an argument it is.

Quote from: skeptic54768
design argument
Which is also badly flawed, given the sheer number of problems that humans (and other animals in their own turn) have to deal with, and the various things that point to evolutionary development of humans from preceding animals.  I suppose you blame this on demons, or sin, or something?

Quote from: skeptic54768
transcendental argument
This depends utterly on the premise that a god is necessary for knowledge to exist.  However, there is no reason to accept the premise to begin with, since there is no reason to assume that knowledge could not exist without a god to provide it.  So there's no reason to treat this as a valid argument.

Quote from: skeptic54768
first cause argument
There's a fatal flaw in this that no theist has ever been able to explain.  If you have an uncaused cause, why then complicate it by assuming it must be an actual being, since the existence of such a being implies prior causes?

Quote from: skeptic54768
atheists believing in things that can't be empirically proven, but denying God exists by claiming it's not empirically proven.
Examples?

Quote from: skeptic54768
The fact that no amount of "logic and reason" can convince me to unsee writing in blood appearing and reappearing on my friend's wall. I saw it. It happened. No argument can change this.
More accurately, no amount of logic and reason can convince you of anything you aren't already prepared to believe.

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #140 on: November 10, 2013, 10:04:31 PM »
Quote from: skeptic54768
atheists believing in things that can't be empirically proven, but denying God exists by claiming it's not empirically proven.
Examples?

He's going to say "evolution", "abiogenesis", "big bang"

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #141 on: November 10, 2013, 10:43:42 PM »
He's going to say "evolution", "abiogenesis", "big bang"

Then we answer that it's all irrelevant, because it gives us no information about any god.
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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #142 on: November 10, 2013, 11:11:18 PM »
The problem is that science can only attempt to answer the "how" but it can never answer the "why."

I don't think there is an ultimate "why."  Sentient beings may occasionally have motivation to do something rather than something else, but I don't see any such impetus in insentient matter.

Quote
Science can explain HOW water is formed from H2O, but it can't explain WHY hydrogen atoms bond with oxygen atoms. That part is just a shoulder shrug.

In this example, the "why" is part of the "how."  The hydrogen atoms bond to the oxygen atoms because they're in the same place at the same time, and other conditions are amenable to water being formed.  If there was more carbon or more nitrogen in the environment, the hydrogen would probably bond with them instead.  From a chemical POV, there's nothing the least bit special or purposeful about water being formed instead of methane or ammonia.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 11:16:55 PM by Astreja »
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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #143 on: November 10, 2013, 11:26:53 PM »
Skeptic is a deep chap. If someone told him how to become a billionaire, he would refuse to act on it, until the person told him why he should be a billionaire.

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Re: Christians; Why Don't You Have An irrefutable Argument?
« Reply #144 on: November 10, 2013, 11:29:05 PM »
The problem is that science can only attempt to answer the "how" but it can never answer the "why."

Why are your standards suddenly so high? You don't ever ask "Why is there a god?", or even how. But you rationalize that the only thing that makes sense in this universe is a god that caused everything. Why?

Oh yea, you don't care. You just want to redefine the human experience in such a way that it requires a god to explain all of existence. And you don't want any hard questions about your POV. Because you'd rather be asking us how we can possibly believe anything can be natural.

What you are saying is that some mysterious, unknown, undefinable, undetectable, un-everything force (i.e., a god) did it. How you think that something inherently unknowable is also so obvious is beyond me.

Why do you need to know why? Why isn't "how" enough. Is "why" important because you think it is, or is "why" important because you think you know it is?

Not everything is knowable. Human minds cannot always piece together enough information to reach complete conclusions. Get used to it. You've already adapted well to making stuff up. Trying adapting to reality next.
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