Author Topic: Sean Carroll v WLC  (Read 172 times)

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Offline Ataraxia

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Sean Carroll v WLC
« on: March 11, 2014, 09:04:39 AM »
I don't know how many of you are aware of this debate, or have seen it, but I thought I'd post a link to it anyway... plus Carroll's post-mortem:

Debate

Post-Debate Reflections by Carroll

In a nutshell, Craig gets his arse handed to him. Enjoy!
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Offline Nam

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Re: Sean Carroll v WLC
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2014, 11:34:56 AM »
My mother's maiden name is "Carroll" -- I could be related to him. ;)

PS: that's a lot to read.

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Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: Sean Carroll v WLC
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2014, 05:42:34 PM »
Wow, Sean Carroll is brilliant and extremely articulate.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 05:44:24 PM by mrbiscoop »
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Re: Sean Carroll v WLC
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2014, 10:41:04 PM »
The video is long, but very much worth it. At least Sean Carroll's part is. From what I've seen so far, which is about 1/4 of the meaty part.

You can skip the first 16 minutes for sure, and the introduction after that goes on and on, so it is probably skippable too. But once the talking starts, it is good. I'm only through the two introductory statements, but I must say, Sean tore Billy a new one.

Highly recommended.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Ataraxia

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Re: Sean Carroll v WLC
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2014, 03:13:50 AM »
Yeah, I pretty much skipped the first 40 minutes up until Sean spoke. All I missed were the intros and the same regurgitated waffle from Craig - not exactly something I need to put myself through again.

Overall, out of the 2hr 40mins video, only the meat in the sandwich is worth watching, which is about an hour and a half.  The end is just question time, which I only think is beneficial to those attending rather than watching remotely, so I turned it off half way through those.

Carroll's post-debate reflections is a long read.... but it's a worthy read. He further demolishes Craig's misconceptions regarding cosmology to show that he is, to paraphrase, "not even wrong".

As a side, I found one of the comments to hit a nail squarely on the head - a comment that reflects a position I hold, yet manages to articulate it where I haven't:

Quote from: Scott Bergquist
I had to turn off the sound of WLC on several occasions. The melding of words that lacked meaning appropriate to the topic was unbearable. Memorably, on several occasions, WLC would say, ” I find it fantastic..” Now, breaking it down, “fantastic” in this context covers a lot of ground. Encoded is “fantasy”, which means, “Your explanation is a fantasy, i.e. untrue” but sounds “polite”. “I am not attacking your idea, I am using the passive structure of words in order to not describe a judgement I have made, but simply place your points into doubtfulness.” “Fantastic”….what does it mean?


This is a reason I find it almost unbearable to listen to the ramblings of Craig. It's these veiled, subtle ad hominems twinned with his little gasping laugh of disbelief which aim at playing the man and not the ball. All this really does is expose his ignorance and incredulity - something he seems happy to wallow in.
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire