Author Topic: Creationists: Describe The Theory of Evolution, properly (And Why You Disagree)  (Read 11850 times)

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Offline magicmiles

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Maybe you could track him down and harass him at his house. Or his workplace. He deserves it, after all. How dare he disagree with you so irrationally and so damned anonymously.
I have removed Foxy Freedom's comment. It is unhelpful. GB Mod

Is that what drives your vicious obsession with Skeptic? You're worried he might try to stab somebody's demon out of them?

In another thread you used the term 'inherently evil'. I asked you if you believed in inherent evil and you haven't responded, so I'll ask it again here.

My apologies: your post has become the victim of friendly fire. I hope Foxy Freedom will see fit to answer your point on "inherent evil" GB Mod


Well, I guess my question isn't on topic really either. I don't mind just dropping it, although it would appear likely the discussion on evolution in this thread has probably run its course.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Is magicmiles the religious fanatic who stabbed and wounded your friend?


You are not allowed to ask that. This thread is about creationism.
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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Foxy Freedom,

Please refrain from gratuitous taunting or personal attacks. If personalities become intolerable, it is best to take a break.

GB Mod


If you have something to say about a moderator's comment, use the PM system. A mod's comment is not open to public discussion GB Mod

« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 02:07:13 PM by Graybeard »
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Online Azdgari

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Is magicmiles the religious fanatic who stabbed and wounded your friend?

You are not allowed to ask that. This thread is about creationism.

Feel free to answer in a PM.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Just to let you know that I found this site interesting. I learned a lot about the religious mentality by closely following some of the individuals and discovering how they think. It will be useful to me in live debates.

Goodbye mm. No worries as they say in oz.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 09:42:48 PM by Foxy Freedom »
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Offline magicmiles

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Fare thee well. Maybe you can track down VenomFangX and debate him in front of a live studio audience.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 10:10:58 PM by magicmiles »
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline median

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Do you agree with common descent as described by evolutionary biologists?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline magicmiles

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Median, who are you addressing?
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline median

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Median, who are you addressing?

Anyone who reads and understands the question.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Do you agree with common descent as described by evolutionary biologists?

I agree with them. ;D
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Antidote

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Fare thee well. Maybe you can track down VenomFangX and debate him in front of a live studio audience.
It would be a waste of anyone's time and effort to debate that clown, he couldn't debate his way out of a wet paper bag.
His knowledge of evolution matches my knowledge of Quantum Physics (re: None)
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

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Offline Mrjason

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Do you agree with common descent as described by evolutionary biologists?

I think so. It looks statistically likely[1]
 1. http://news.discovery.com/animals/dinosaurs/life-single-common-ancestor.htm

Online wright

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Do you agree with common descent as described by evolutionary biologists?

It fits the fossil record, it fits the genetic evidence, it fits the observed anatomical similarities in different animals. So, yes.
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Offline Antidote

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Do you agree with common descent as described by evolutionary biologists?
With all the evidence pointing to it, I'd be a fool not to.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

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Offline median

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Of course, I posted that question right after MMs' tangent, and he even asked me who it was directed toward (which included him). Notice how he completely ignored the question after that. Yeah...pretty funny.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline nogodsforme

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The TOE is the best explanation we have for the present-day and past era diversity of life forms, for at least three reasons: 

--all the available evidence so far (in fields as distinct as genetics, biogeography, comparative anatomy, botany, physical anthropology) supports it;

--it works in real life applications like CSI, epidemiology and agriculture;

and

--predictions based on it (like the discovery of DNA, the physical locations of fossils and the genetic differences between chimps and humans) have been upheld by investigation.

If it could be falsified very easily with common sense, it would have been done by one of the many scientists who challenged Darwin's big idea back in the 1800's. They tried to falsify it, and attempts to solve the problems they found with the theory have led to new discoveries that expanded the useful applications of the TOE.

We are far less likely to be tricked by a "Piltdown Man" hoax today, because we have studied and classified so many thousands of primate skulls, jaws, teeth, etc. We know what the remains of a monkey, gorilla, chimp, baby human and prehistoric human look like. We are less likely to mistake a juvenile chimp skeleton for a short elderly prehistoric human and vice versa.

If it just needed better technology to falsify it, it would have been done by one of the many 20th and 21st century scientists vying for Nobel Prizes, genius grants, PBS shows, TED talks and other forms of contemporary nerd recognition.

As it stands, you only need to discover one thing out of order-- like the fossilized remains of a chihuahua eaten by a T-rex,  or a 4 billion year old rock with flowering plant pollen trapped inside-- it to call the TOE into question. That evidence would have to be examined by every scientist alive, including me, before it could be taken as factual--you would need way more than a few fuzzy photos on a website. It would have to be dated with everything available. New dating systems might have to be developed to test the new evidence.  But realize, every system for dating prehistoric objects that has ever been developed reinforces the TOE.

I am therefore confident at the 95% interval that falsification of the TOE will never happen. But being a scientist means that I have to leave open that 5% possibility that every working scientist in the field has been wrong and nobody has ever caught any of the previous generation's mistakes.

It could happen--and the sound you hear is me not holding my breath.  &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline magicmiles

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Of course, I posted that question right after MMs' tangent, and he even asked me who it was directed toward (which included him). Notice how he completely ignored the question after that. Yeah...pretty funny.

I gnored the question because it wasn't directed specificallyto me. I have insufficient undertanding of science to discuss evolution in any sort of meaningful way.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline nogodsforme

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Of course, I posted that question right after MMs' tangent, and he even asked me who it was directed toward (which included him). Notice how he completely ignored the question after that. Yeah...pretty funny.

I gnored the question because it wasn't directed specificallyto me. I have insufficient undertanding of science to discuss evolution in any sort of meaningful way.

You can trust me, MM. The theory of evolution is absolutely true. See my post above.

I wouldn't lie to a hot aussie, esp. after seeing Thor last week..... ;)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Antidote

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I have insufficient undertanding of science to discuss evolution in any sort of meaningful way.
I commend you for admitting that, not many theists are willing to admit they don't know something.

EDIT:
Especially people like Sye Ten, who seem to think that to reject gawd is the same as rejecting knowledge.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 07:39:36 PM by Antidote »
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

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Offline nogodsforme

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When an atheist sees something outside his beliefs, it is interesting, because it might lead to some truth, if you can get to the bottom of it.

Such as the truth that Orta Benga was considered a monkey instead of a human back in 1904?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ota_Benga

Such a shame that kids in schools back then were being taught the "absolute truth" that Orta Benga was a monkey. They probably got a big fat red X on their paper if they classified Orta Benga as a human. I feel sorry for him being paraded around like an animal.

Wonder why they don't teach this to kids in the textbooks today. Kinda makes you wonder what science is trying to hide from us and why they are afraid of their past. The lengths they go to in order to try and prove their wild theory is quite interesting.

But they do teach about this-- in history of science classes. That is where I learned about the racist and sexist ideas that used to be considered "scientific". And many of these ideas had a religious basis. Women came from Adam's rib, were therefore inferior to men and could not study medicine or vote in elections. Mental exertion  would damage their female organs and make them go crazy. Black people carried the mark or curse of Ham or whatever, so it was okay to enslave them and treat them as beasts of burden. And since they were from a different species than white people, any mixed race offspring would be sterile like mules.[1]

None of this crap was really scientific, ie based on facts, tested and supported by evidence. It was what people in power wanted to believe. Today, we are careful about using science to tell us what we want to hear-- like there is no global climate change and we can keep on using the environment exactly as we please. Another plastic bottle of tap water, please.

Far from trying to hide the past, scientists learn from the mistakes of the past.  Scientists can't learn about the world by just studying the bible or another old religious text. We have to learn by applying the principles of the scientific method. That is how we know that Ota Benga was a human being, not a chimpanzee.  We know that any criteria used to "classify" African people as chimps or gorillas was incorrect. The fact is that all humans are the same kind of primate, with the same kind of DNA. That is why we know that Piltdown man was a patched-together hoax, not a real prehistoric fossil.
 1. That is where the term mulatto--little mule-- comes from...
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline skeptic54768

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But they do teach about this-- in history of science classes. That is where I learned about the racist and sexist ideas that used to be considered "scientific". And many of these ideas had a religious basis. Women came from Adam's rib, were therefore inferior to men and could not study medicine or vote in elections. Mental exertion  would damage their female organs and make them go crazy. Black people carried the mark or curse of Ham or whatever, so it was okay to enslave them and treat them as beasts of burden. And since they were from a different species than white people, any mixed race offspring would be sterile like mules.[1]
 1. That is where the term mulatto--little mule-- comes from...

Whoever fed you those ideas were certainly not Christians.

People who are led by demons would use the "women came from Adam!" as an excuse for their hatred. People who are racist will use the "curse of Ham" as an excuse to be racist.

Christians would never do this. Christians recognize that male and female were created equal in God's eyes. Black people are God's special creatures as well.

Please show me the verse that says "the curse" is making someone black. You won't be able to because it's not in the Bible!

Bigots use the Bible as an excuse because they are led by demons and pervert the Holy Perfect Word.

You will not find the Bible saying this nonsense. Everyone is equal in God's eyes.

Matthew 7:15
"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves."
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Add Homonym

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Matthew 7:15
"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves."

I believe that's actually a warning against Paul, so you shouldn't quote that one. Proof that it's against Paul can be found in a preceding statement 5:19

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

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Whoever fed you those ideas were certainly not Christians.

How do you know? How do you know YOU are a Christian? By your logic, if you have broken any Christian precept, you are not a Christian. And Christians are always forgiven, no matter what they do, so they must remain Christians, after they have accepted Christ.

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People who are led by demons would use the "women came from Adam!" as an excuse for their hatred. People who are racist will use the "curse of Ham" as an excuse to be racist.

They don't have to "hate". Women can be oppressed and wrecked, lovingly. Slaves can be tortured, lovingly, by Christians.

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Christians would never do this. Christians recognize that male and female were created equal in God's eyes. Black people are God's special creatures as well.

I think you are confusing the declaration of independence with the Bible. If the new testament supported this idea, it would have said so, copiously.

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Please show me the verse that says "the curse" is making someone black. You won't be able to because it's not in the Bible!

Please show me where Noah, the most virtuous man in the universe, got the powers to do Satanic curses.

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Bigots use the Bible as an excuse because they are led by demons and pervert the Holy Perfect Word.

You shouldn't be able to use the Bible as an excuse. It should be written properly, so it can't be used as an excuse.

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You will not find the Bible saying this nonsense. Everyone is equal in God's eyes.

I read this with interest in Genesis. However, the God endorses killing and enslaving enemies, so in order to process this, the perpetrator must dehumanize someone he wishes to exploit. God said that animals were not equal, so anyone you have dehumanized, must be an animal. This allows you to stone them for trivial reasons, also.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 09:33:02 PM by Add Homonym »
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Online Azdgari

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Whoever fed you those ideas were certainly not Christians. ...

Sure they were.  Christians are not better or worse than other human beings, your bigotry notwithstanding.
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Offline Antidote

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Whoever fed you those ideas were certainly not Christians.
This line right here shows your integrity, quit claiming that people who don't completely agree with you aren't christian, that's a "No True Scottsman" fallacy.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

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Offline nogodsforme

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Whoever fed you those ideas were certainly not Christians. ...

Sure they were.  Christians are not better or worse than other human beings, your bigotry notwithstanding.

According to this, nobody who ever did anything that is now disapproved of, like own slaves and advocate for racial and gender discrimination was really a Christian. Although the bible clearly allows for and even orders that such things be done. Racial separation was decreed by god--why else would he have made different races?

Clearly some people were more god-like (look at this picture of Jesus-- he is white, right? So god must be white, too.) and meant to rule over the more animal-like people who should be slaves. And even better if the slaves are taught to be Christians. Saving their souls, even if you destroy their bodies. The slave masters wrote this stuff in their memoirs all the time.

The people who fought against those racist polices were called traitors, anti-American, anti-Christian and communists. By churches full of people praying that slavery or whatever would always be there. Right before the weekly lynching and church picnic.[1] 

The people who made up those racist ideas and made laws based on them and enforced policies based on them were most definitely not "out" atheists. Because atheists were not-- and still are not-- generally given positions of power and influence in government in the US.
 1.   Apartheid was supported until the absolute  bitter end by the very devoutly Christian Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa. These are some of the most bible-believing, constantly praying, god-loving people on the planet.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline median

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Whoever fed you those ideas were certainly not Christians.

People who are led by demons would use the "women came from Adam!" as an excuse for their hatred. People who are racist will use the "curse of Ham" as an excuse to be racist.

Christians would never do this. Christians recognize that male and female were created equal in God's eyes. Black people are God's special creatures as well.

Please show me the verse that says "the curse" is making someone black. You won't be able to because it's not in the Bible!

Bigots use the Bible as an excuse because they are led by demons and pervert the Holy Perfect Word.

You will not find the Bible saying this nonsense. Everyone is equal in God's eyes.

Matthew 7:15
"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves."


You constantly talk out of both sides of your mouth as if we won't notice. Have you read your bible? Open to Lev 25, Ex 21, 1 Sam 15 (must I go on?). The bible is absolutely filled with places of this alleged 'God' degrading human beings (his alleged 'creation'). There's no problem with owning slaves...but we're all made equal! This is just more of you making excuses for an irrational book you assumed was true and now which you will defend by hook or by crook (backwards thinking).
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 05:44:38 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline nogodsforme

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^^^Not only that, but Christian justifications for slavery in the US and Europe was not just a couple of years mistake. It went on for centuries. And god did not see fit to intervene...

The same way Muslims enslaved people for centuries, with the Quran as justification-- treat the slaves well and convince them to be Muslim and it's all good.

Funny how the slaves just kept on trying to escape, buy their freedom, help others escape, etc. Even though it was clearly god's will for them to be slaves. I guess it was the influence of demons on those pesky slaves. &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Graybeard

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People who are led by demons would use the "women came from Adam!" as an excuse for their hatred. People who are racist will use the "curse of Ham" as an excuse to be racist.

The Bible is based on the superiority of the Children of God: the descendants of Adam. You only have to look on the way God ordered the genocide of the Moabites, Caananites, Edomites and the Amalkelites. So let us have no more of that "equality" garbage

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Christians would never do this. Christians recognize that male and female were created equal in God's eyes. Black people are God's special creatures as well.

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Please show me the verse that says "the curse" is making someone black. You won't be able to because it's not in the Bible!

Many ignorant people believe that the only slaves were black. This is pure racism on their part. In the 17 and 18th centuries many other nationalities and ethnicities were taken into slavery - it was a punishment at law in 17th and 18th century England.

So, let me quote this: "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers" (Gn 9:25).

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Bigots use the Bible as an excuse because they are led by demons and pervert the Holy Perfect Word.

No, people like you, who have never read a bible believe that.

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You will not find the Bible saying this nonsense.

I have just found it - apologise.

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Everyone is equal in God's eyes.

So, you think that women in the bible, who could be bought and sold are equal. Women who could not speak in church and had to be, in all cases, subservient to their husbands?

And let us look at the Racism of Jesus: why did He chose a Samaritan? Well, it was well-known that, stereotypically, Samaritans were all thieving, lying people.

And what did Jesus have to say about slaves? Matthew 25:11 onwards gives us the answer - a parable that ends in "M't:25:30: And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." i.e. You cast them into Hell if you are not happy with them. So there you are: Jesus knows how to treat slaves.

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Add Homonym

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So, let me quote this: "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers" (Gn 9:25).

They still used the Bible to justify it, no matter how wrong their reasoning was.

Canaan's bro, Cush, was the father of Ethiopians, and Canaan was a bit black, being Palestinian. Over all, there was a tendency for Ham's children to be blackish, which must have been guilt by association.

Hell of a curse, though. Maybe Noah aimed it wrong, because he was a drunken arsehole. I hope they put it in the Noah movie.
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