Author Topic: Is Jesus death in the cross a confirmation that Satan is more powerful than God?  (Read 425 times)

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Offline Lectus

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Consider the second temptation by Satan:
Quote
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”

11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

Matthew 4

To fall for this trap Jesus would have to worship Satan to recognize Satan as more powerful.

Isn't it exactly what Jesus did in the cross? Why did Jesus need to die in the cross to forgive mankind sins? Is God negotiating with Satan? Meaning Satan has power to exchange Jesus pain for souls.
Religion: The belief that an all powerful God or gods created the entire universe so that we tiny humans can be happy. And we also make war about it.

Offline Nick

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Makes me think.  "Why won't Satan heal amputees?"
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Interesting question. 

From my perspective, if Jesus the Christ had stayed buried in the tomb then the Satan would be the more powerful.  Since I believe Jesus the Christ was made alive on the third day after the crucifixion, then it seems that God is more powerful.

Please understand the above is a statement of faith. 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Interesting question. 

From my perspective, if Jesus the Christ had stayed buried in the tomb then the Satan would be the more powerful.  Since I believe Jesus the Christ was made alive on the third day after the crucifixion, then it seems that God is more powerful.

Please understand the above is a statement of faith. 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
Then it was hardly a "sacrifice" it was made out to be. If you knew you would be murdered(for lack of a better term) and then brought back after a couple days would you consider it much of a sacrifice?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline neopagan

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Good points, Lectus.

The whole desert temptation story is high farce... Why would the all-powerful god be the least tempted by his creation (satan) offering him something? And then - years later claim victory over this being again? I've seen better hero/villian narratives from Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant

In my many years as a believer, I was more troubled by the 40 days without food/water part of the tale.  I could never swallow that... :)


If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline G-Roll

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Neopagan,

2 Cor 4
"But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them."

Lucifer was an angel created by god. He rebelled against god and was casted down. On his way out he received a promotion to a god. Apparently he rules this world and we need Jesus to save us from him and his wiley ways.
I have no idea why Jesus had to die for 3 days to get rid of sin... (by the way we still haven’t receive the gifts of "Jesus works" on the cross) The god that speaks everything that I know of into existence can't speak things out or remove his own curses. I do enjoy though how god places himself in these boxes he is supposedly too big for.

Asking if Satan is more powerful than god is like asking if Darth Vader is more powerful than Luke Skywalker. Satan is cooler though. Everyone loves an underdog!

Offline neopagan

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^^^  G, thanks.
I'm aware of the whole god of this world stuff.  Are you saying satan/lucy becoming a god somehow gave him more authority than God/Junior (in the story, of course)?  The tall tale sounds more like an ancient moral lesson than anything - Jeezus resisted the devil and so can you![1]
 1. if Jeezus was offered the whole world, then you can stop watching porn, at least
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline G-Roll

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Well if Jesus never beat the devil at his own game what kind of god would he be? Jesus 1 Satan 0. It's like all the hype that goes into a boxing match that pay per view channels want you to buy. If you keep up with the sport you already know who is going to win, yet you want to pay $60 to watch the fight anyway. I agree that it is a moral story that serves multiple functions.
I think Satan has somehow been given/found more power than most people realize. When Lucifer fell I thought he fell, became Satan, created hell and was imprisoned there. Yet in the story of Job he goes and visits god and claims that he has been walking around all over the earth doing whatever he likes, if I have the story correct. So obviously he was not trapped in hell. He challenges god more than once and lives on to talk about it until the book of Revelations. According to many Christians he is more influential to us humans than god. He and his demons pop up new false religions everywhere and deceive and lie to us all the time. God leads a guy to take the Israelites out of Egypt and they get lost in the desert for.. how many years was it? And that guy didn’t even get to go to heaven. God kills himself on the cross and 2,000 years later still no signs of his promise to lift the curse that he created?       

Offline Lectus

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Makes me think of this:
Religion: The belief that an all powerful God or gods created the entire universe so that we tiny humans can be happy. And we also make war about it.

Offline Truth OT

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Consider the second temptation by Satan:
Quote
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”

11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

Matthew 4

To fall for this trap Jesus would have to worship Satan to recognize Satan as more powerful.

Isn't it exactly what Jesus did in the cross? Why did Jesus need to die in the cross to forgive mankind sins? Is God negotiating with Satan? Meaning Satan has power to exchange Jesus pain for souls.

This temptation as well as other events in the life of Jesus as depicted in the gospels seem to indicate that Jesus' faith in God was being tested. Of course, these tests serve a fuel for those that believe the NT writings are self contradictory in that they at times seem to affirm Jesus being God while at other times and quite frankly more often, show that Jesus was not God.

Maybe Jesus was the NT version of Job with a better retirement plan.