We believe the baby will go to Heaven. Can you say with 150% certainty that Heaven does not exist?
I sure can. I can say with 1000% certainty there is no heaven. You can probably say with the same confidence that there is. This is not a subject on which we can compromise. But it doesn't matter what either one of us thinks. What matters is whether or not there is a heaven. Well, it doesn't actually matter, except for the part where you live as if there is one and I don't. That's the part that matters. And when our disagreement makes us enemies, or something less dastardly but similar, it kind of ruins things here on earth.
If there is a god, he knows this and continues to play hide and seek. Which doesn't impress me as much as it impresses you. If there is not a god, the planet is stuck with people who think that there is, and we keep bickering.
Luckily, though we lack solutions, it is the 21st century, so we have the Internet and we get to argue about such things endlessly.
Which, when I'm feeling ornery, is a little like heaven on earth.
You shouldn't be making concrete statements like that.
Surely you must have some kind of evidence that heaven does not exist? Otherwise, there's a problem with atheism.
P1) Atheists only believe in things that are empirically proven
P2) God can not be empirically proven to not exist.
C) Therefore, atheists should not be atheists (from P1) because atheism can't be empirically proven (from P2).
Lets see. All claims of the christian god are based on old, old stories. Other cultures, claiming other gods, that you yourself don't believe in, are also old. If you have no trouble not believing in Ra, in Annu or Inanna, in Bugas, in Qadeshtu, then you should have no trouble understanding why I don't believe in your equally unlikely christian god.
Claims of a god do not automatically make the possibility of said god real. Claims of a god, when not backed up with anything but, and listen careful, those claims of that god, do not go any distance whatsoever towards demonstrating even the tiniest possibility that said god is real. If the Kassite deities of ancient Babylon don't seem the least bit possible to you, then the christian god, based on equally wild and invalid stories, should not need to be considered any more real.
If you think that I have to give serious consideration to the existence of your god simply because a bunch of shepherds said he was real a few thousand years ago, then my claim that earthworms are the source of all life and morals and need to be worshipped should get equal respect from you.
I know, that's crazy. Worms can't be gods.
Which is my point exactly.
Whether we look at the ridiculousness of the Eden story, the provably wrong story of the Ark, The ridiculous notion of having half a million people lost in the desert for 40 years, the silly story of JC walking on water or feeding the masses with one loaf and one fish, or his even more fishy death and supposed resurrection, nothing in the bible is consistent with reality.
Do some people need religion? Apparently. But that doesn't make it true. I only indicates that the various failures of society to flourish without stress or conflict, and the propensity of most to join groups, have combined to create an atmosphere ripe for both making up and engendering religions. And those of you that are forced, by your self-required beliefs, to proclaim said religions as real sure get uppity when those of us not so psychologically encumbered point out that maybe it isn't true about your god.
What good is religion supposed to do? Make life better? Well, it doesn't do that. Friends and acquaintances much more religious than I have had far worse life experiences. You god didn't do diddly to protect or otherwise improve the life of the many religious people I've known in my life who died far younger than I will die, since they're already dead and I'm not. At least not yet. And of course I will be, someday, perhaps equally as horribly as my murdered friends or my dead by cancer friends or my squished in car wrecks friends. Others, still alive, have survived heart attacks. I haven't survived a heart attack. I haven't needed to. But I've been an atheist for over 50 years. So apparently not believing hasn't had any particular negative effect on my life, while being a believer hasn't done anything particularly good for many I have known over the years.
So there is no evidence, no real-life advantage, and nothing but excuses from those who insist neither of those factors is relevant.
Why, if there is no real world advantage to being religious, no proof of any of the myriad gods proposed, no moral or social or monetary or political or marriage or parenting or dietary or sports world advantage to believing in a god, should I bother? Just because old stories are being passed around as real? That's not a reason. That is just an excuse for the gullible and the weak to perpetuate the lies that they believe are real. And I'm not in the mood to play along with them.
I know the answer to this, but you don't. I am a 62 year old man in great shape. My job requires me to climb 32 foot tall ladders and I can do so without huffing and puffing. And I can do it all day long. I have had one minor surgical procedure in my entire life. I don't take any medicines. I get a headache or two a year, and down a couple of aspirin, and that is literally all I take. I've gotten pain pills to take after my surgery and after a pretty serious dog bite and I took only one of them. Because I thought I had to.
My friend George, a lifelong fundy, had a parachute that didn't open right when he was 25 and has been limping ever since. His equally religious sister died in a plane crash, his equally religious father died in a construction accident, he had a heart attack when he was 58, he had to get an MRI today because something else is going wrong and I haven't yet heard what it is. His religious mother lingered for years with Alzheimer;s before she died, he was never able to have children even though he wanted them, he has to swallow about a dozen pills every morning just to stay alive and he's lost at least six good friends to age and disease in the last year alone.
Now I know that this is simply a case where the law of averages makes his life worse than mine. But from a religious perspective, what excuses are you tempted to come up with when you compare my relaxed, healthy life with his? I've had absolutely none of the trauma he has had to endure. Yea, my parents are dead, but of things that kill old people, and without the drama of Alzheimer's or of falling 150 feet and then being crushed by tons of boulders in a landslide like his father. My life hasn't been perfect, but compared to his, it almost has.
Religion has nothing but its stories and its excuses. I'm not attracted to either. And I am sure that neither your christianity or the gods of the Canaanite's are real. That you are a sucker for one of the many god stories means that I have to keep fending off your silly claims and unwanted wishes for a more christian world. I don't need to come up with a few seemingly logical statements to proclaim that you can't prove what I believe but that you can't prove it not true either. I don't need such reassurances.
And by the way, I am open to god being real. And all he has to do is show up at my doorstep or by my side while I'm walking through the woods or visit me in the middle of the night and explain away his incompetence and apologize for his negligence and promise to do better and start fixing the many wrongs in the world and poof, I'll be a christian too. In the meantime, not so much. In fact, not at all.
That'll teach you not to get me started.