Author Topic: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!  (Read 677 times)

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Offline MM747

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Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« on: October 31, 2013, 08:20:00 AM »
I'm not sure if this is something that is becoming more prevalent or if I am just more in tune to it now but I'm curious to know if others are seeing a similar trend.

Here's the back-story...

I have a best mate, a work mate, and a younger cousin (20) who are all Christian.
Each became heavily involved in their respective church.
All three of them went through a stage of trying to chat church to me. Or softly introduce 'teachings' into a casual conversation.
The less interest I showed the less contact we had. With my best mate and work mate, the catch ups and social visits ground completely to a halt. I would make attempts to catch up but it was clear they had no desire to socialize with anyone outside of the church or their framework of belief.
With my cousin the first point was the same. Where her situation took another step was when she decided to attend a Christian University in preparation for a mission in South America. The crux here was that she needed money to attend. She then took to asking for donations from friends and family through Facebook and email. Instead of sending money I offered the names of other organizations that don't proselytize and push a religious agenda, but which do fantastic work in the same space. I said I would be happy to support her in her endeavors if she took this route.

Ironically, our relationship has come to the same end as the other two. Where she has effectively refused to respond to emails or engage in any sort of catch up or chat.

So what I'm seeing from my friends looks something like this:
(I could probably create a process map which illustrates this nicely)
1. X finds Y religion. X asks if you are interested in joining, chatting about, or exploring Y religion. If no, go to [Get out of the way].
2. X finds Y religion. X asks for $. If no, go to [Get out of the way].

Just curious if anyone else is experiencing something similar to this and if so, is it a recent development?

Cheers,

MM


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius

Offline neopagan

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2013, 08:50:42 AM »
My (hereinafter referred to as Z) experience of late has been...

Z jettisons Y religion and Xn jettisons Z....

If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Nick

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 03:21:50 PM »
Once outside the bubble you are not allowed to be around them.  You might rub off on them and the believers cannot have that.  Someday, if they are lucky, they may break free of the delusion and approach you for forgiveness. ;)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline neopagan

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 03:26:20 PM »
^^^ Very true, since Z might cause the faithful to doibt (whatever the eff that means?!?!)

It ain't easy bein' Z.....
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 03:37:52 PM »
Move to Australia. It's the solution to everything. I've never yet met a Christian as insular as the ones you discuss.

MM
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Offline RubyLeo

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 03:45:47 PM »
I'm not sure if this is something that is becoming more prevalent or if I am just more in tune to it now but I'm curious to know if others are seeing a similar trend.

Here's the back-story...

I have a best mate, a work mate, and a younger cousin (20) who are all Christian.
Each became heavily involved in their respective church.
All three of them went through a stage of trying to chat church to me. Or softly introduce 'teachings' into a casual conversation.
The less interest I showed the less contact we had. With my best mate and work mate, the catch ups and social visits ground completely to a halt. I would make attempts to catch up but it was clear they had no desire to socialize with anyone outside of the church or their framework of belief.
With my cousin the first point was the same. Where her situation took another step was when she decided to attend a Christian University in preparation for a mission in South America. The crux here was that she needed money to attend. She then took to asking for donations from friends and family through Facebook and email. Instead of sending money I offered the names of other organizations that don't proselytize and push a religious agenda, but which do fantastic work in the same space. I said I would be happy to support her in her endeavors if she took this route.

Ironically, our relationship has come to the same end as the other two. Where she has effectively refused to respond to emails or engage in any sort of catch up or chat.

So what I'm seeing from my friends looks something like this:
(I could probably create a process map which illustrates this nicely)
1. X finds Y religion. X asks if you are interested in joining, chatting about, or exploring Y religion. If no, go to [Get out of the way].
2. X finds Y religion. X asks for $. If no, go to [Get out of the way].

Just curious if anyone else is experiencing something similar to this and if so, is it a recent development?

Cheers,

MM

In my case, no, this isn't a problem.  It just doesn't come up in conversations. I have occasionally received letters/emails asking for donations for a mission trip for some distant family member or such; I just hit delete.

I think it's pretty clear why your cousin stopped talking to you, however.  I'm not going to defend christianity (which I think is a total joke or I would not be here),and I loathe the idea of "missions" (since we all know that bibles don't help feed starving kids, for one thing); but if it's obvious she is a dedicated xtian going on a mission - your efforts to dissuade her and say you would only support her if she went on a volunteer effort that YOU approved of smacks of condescension.  Which is your prerogative of course. But you shouldn't feign shock that she would quit speaking to you after pulling that.  :laugh:

I'm not at all insinuating that you should have supported the mission - if it's against your beliefs - then naturally, don't support it.  Just leave it at that.

As to your other friends, well if all they want to talk about is church, then you're probably better off not talking to them anyway. I'm sincerely sorry about that - it sucks to lose a friend.

Sounds like it's time to meet some new friends!
"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. "
~ Thomas Paine

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 04:12:31 PM »
False Christians are out in full force these days. They are like wolves in sheep's clothing.

Their mouths say Jesus but their hearts say Satan.

Offline Zankuu

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 04:18:30 PM »
False Christians are out in full force these days. They are like wolves in sheep's clothing.

Their mouths say Jesus but their hearts say Satan.

No true Scotsman...
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 04:22:51 PM »
No true Scotsman...

What? Nah... It's not like a true skeptic would ever use a fallacy... Wait, I think I made a mistake somewhere.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Zankuu

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2013, 04:26:24 PM »
No true Scotsman...

What? Nah... It's not like a true skeptic would ever use a fallacy... Wait, I think I made a mistake somewhere.

He's probably going to say that by pointing out a fallacy I'm actually making a counter-argument from ignorance because I don't know what's really in their hearts.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2013, 04:28:02 PM »
False Christians are out in full force these days. They are like wolves in sheep's clothing.

Their mouths say Jesus but their hearts say Satan.

No true Scotsman...

There's the problem!

You guys claim you have Bible knowledge. If you truly did have Bible knowledge, you would know they are false Christians.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2013, 04:31:46 PM »
False Christians are out in full force these days. They are like wolves in sheep's clothing.

Their mouths say Jesus but their hearts say Satan.

Quote
Satan masquerades as an angel of light. He'll be very nice to you if you're worshiping him. He will make you think you are worshiping God. He will give you things and you will think it's God giving them to you. He'll be your best pal, your best buddy....until the End Times when he will just laugh at you.

Offline RubyLeo

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 04:41:30 PM »
False Christians are out in full force these days. They are like wolves in sheep's clothing.

Their mouths say Jesus but their hearts say Satan.

No true Scotsman...

There's the problem!

You guys claim you have Bible knowledge. If you truly did have Bible knowledge, you would know they are false Christians.


Can you give a specific example please?
"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. "
~ Thomas Paine

Offline Zankuu

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2013, 04:45:44 PM »
Can you give a specific example please?

I believe he thinks all Catholics are false Christians. You'll have to ask him though.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline RubyLeo

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2013, 04:47:29 PM »
Can you give a specific example please?

I believe he thinks all Catholics are false Christians. You'll have to ask him though.

thanks for the head's up.  :)  I'm hoping for some scripture to back up his claims about this too...
"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. "
~ Thomas Paine

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2013, 04:48:03 PM »
Can you give a specific example please?

Luke 5
29 Then Levi held a great banquet for Jesus at his house, and a large crowd of tax collectors and others were eating with them. 30 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”

31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.




Online skeptic54768

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2013, 04:50:06 PM »
I believe he thinks all Catholics are false Christians. You'll have to ask him though.

I prefer to think of them as people who are duped into following a false doctrine.

The high priests, cardinals, bishops, the Pope are the false Christians.

Offline neopagan

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2013, 04:52:23 PM »
Can you give a specific example please?

I believe he thinks all Catholics are false Christians. You'll have to ask him though.

thanks for the head's up.  :)  I'm hoping for some scripture to back up his claims about this too...

Get ready to be bowled over by specifics... (not!)
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2013, 04:53:04 PM »
I prefer to think of them as people who are duped into following a false doctrine.

The high priests, cardinals, bishops, the Pope are the false Christians.
You mean that same doctrine, the bible, that you keep lauding so much?

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2013, 04:53:08 PM »
If Jesus came back today, it's most likely he would be eating dinner at a strip club. He would also be with the serial killers and rapists.

He would not be with the saved.

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2013, 04:56:01 PM »
I prefer to think of them as people who are duped into following a false doctrine.

The high priests, cardinals, bishops, the Pope are the false Christians.
You mean that same doctrine, the bible, that you keep lauding so much?

It doesn't matter what the Catholic Church's interpretation of the bible is.

You might be ignorant of Christian history.
The earliest Christians had no Bible.

Offline Zankuu

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2013, 04:56:47 PM »
I believe he thinks all Catholics are false Christians. You'll have to ask him though.

I prefer to think of them as people who are duped into following a false doctrine.

You do realize there are Catholics that pray to God and have their prayers answered the same ambiguous way your prayer was answered, right? How is their faith any different from yours? Do they not have a good reason to believe Catholicism is the correct sect?
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline RubyLeo

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2013, 04:58:30 PM »
I believe he thinks all Catholics are false Christians. You'll have to ask him though.

I prefer to think of them as people who are duped into following a false doctrine.

The high priests, cardinals, bishops, the Pope are the false Christians.

Soooo the passage you quoted from Luke was referring to the Pope. Got it. 
"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. "
~ Thomas Paine

Offline Zankuu

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2013, 04:58:42 PM »
And sorry to MM747 for going off topic. It's hard to ignore fallacious thinking.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline neopagan

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2013, 04:59:53 PM »
If Jesus came back today, it's most likely he would be eating dinner at a strip club. He would also be with the serial killers and rapists.

He would not be with the saved.

I assume jeezus is allowed to lay hands on a stripper during his lap dance?
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline RubyLeo

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2013, 05:00:12 PM »
And sorry to MM747 for going off topic. It's hard to ignore fallacious thinking.

I was just about to apologize for the thread jack.  You are correct, Zankuu -it's hard to resist.

"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. "
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Offline neopagan

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2013, 05:11:57 PM »
If Jesus came back today, it's most likely he would be eating dinner at a strip club. He would also be with the serial killers and rapists.

He would not be with the saved.

Did you mean papists, instead of rapists?  Because you seem to think the catholics would need a lot of help too from Dr Jeezus.
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2013, 05:20:34 PM »
You do realize there are Catholics that pray to God and have their prayers answered the same ambiguous way your prayer was answered, right? How is their faith any different from yours? Do they not have a good reason to believe Catholicism is the correct sect?

Of course they receive answered prayers. Satan does that for you.

If they read the Bible, they would notice none of their practices are found in it. But, Catholics are discouraged from reading the Bible because then they would leave the faith and the Vatican would crumble to dust.

Offline Zankuu

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Re: Convert, Donate, or Get out of the way!
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2013, 05:46:06 PM »
You do realize there are Catholics that pray to God and have their prayers answered the same ambiguous way your prayer was answered, right? How is their faith any different from yours? Do they not have a good reason to believe Catholicism is the correct sect?

Of course they receive answered prayers. Satan does that for you.

Then Satan is a benevolent being.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos