Author Topic: A Petition to Reinstate the Proselytisation of Young Girls  (Read 517 times)

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Offline Strawman

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A Petition to Reinstate the Proselytisation of Young Girls
« on: November 15, 2013, 12:13:04 PM »
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/girlguiding-ulster-to-reinstate-the-old-promise-and-include-an-alternative-promise-for-those-that-don-t-want-to-make-a-promise-to-god

What kind of Girl Guide would you be if you didn't promise to love your God? Of course they are being very democratic and fair by allowing the girls to protest and insist on a secular version of the promise, all they are asking for is that the leaders can use "To love my God" as the official promise. We all know that young children are well versed on their rights and have no problem with challenging authority and certainly would never be indoctrinated by the opinions of an authority figure.

I feel we should adopt the same fair approach to the science classroom. We should prioritise teaching creationism and only if the children protest should we even mention evolutionary theory. Then both parties get a fair shake of the stick.

See, a Theocracy can be a Democracy, we just need to tell children to love Jesus and if they don't want to and would rather burn in hell then that's their choice.

&)

I had the option "I Do Not Support This" and gave my reasons. I would encourage you to do the same, if you can find it, it was a normal text link.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 12:15:09 PM by Strawman »
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Offline Antidote

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Re: A Petition to Reinstate the Proselytisation of Young Girls
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 08:26:39 PM »
To be honest, I support this, they're not asking for the complete removal of the new one, just have it as an alternative.
However since I'm not in the UK I don't have a horse in this race.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: A Petition to Reinstate the Proselytisation of Young Girls
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2013, 06:10:58 PM »
I, too, think that allowing people the option is reasonable.

Offline Strawman

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Re: A Petition to Reinstate the Proselytisation of Young Girls
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2013, 10:50:31 PM »
Can you not see through the fa├žade? They want the Christian promise to be reinstated as the official one and allow girls to say an alternative version if they refuse to say the Christian version. Having to opt-out is a lot different from a straightforward choice. Why are there only Christian and Secular versions? Why not Muslim, Jewish or Pagan? The reason the promise was changed to a secular form was to prevent the inevitable segregation that they are trying to reimpose.

If some of the leaders are this desperate to have children declare their love for god in a secular organisation (they are threatening to quit if the Christian promise isn't reinstated) then think how they will treat the girls differently depending on whether they follow the Christian lead or if they are rebellious secularists or of any non-Christian faith.

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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: A Petition to Reinstate the Proselytisation of Young Girls
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2013, 10:47:42 AM »
The problem is, right now it isn't any more of a choice than it was before.  That's what the people here are saying.  Before they imposed this change, there was only the Christian version.

Also, I don't think this is an issue of repeating a different oath after everyone else.  I think it's a matter that they can choose to recite one or the other at the same time as everyone else.  Or at least that's how it should be - I'm not totally sure on this matter.

So let me ask you a question, Strawman.  If they had gone from a Christian oath to one that allowed either-or, would you argue that they should make everyone recite the 'or'?  Because that's what your argument boils down to.

Offline Strawman

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Re: A Petition to Reinstate the Proselytisation of Young Girls
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2013, 06:10:07 PM »
So let me ask you a question, Strawman.  If they had gone from a Christian oath to one that allowed either-or, would you argue that they should make everyone recite the 'or'?  Because that's what your argument boils down to.
You've worded that in a strange way but I assume you mean, "Should the oath be secular?"

Yes, I believe it should. Secularism is often misconstrued as Atheism, or Anti-theism, but secularism is entirely impartial with regards to religion, it doesn't argue for or against it, it simply ignores it. Proseletysing theists can't handle that and so they claim secularism to be religious oppression, which is bullshit!

Show me where in the secular oath it pledges alleigiance to science and atheism? Where is the dismissal of gods as delusion and scripture as fables? Nowhere, it would not be secular if there were such things.

I am against indoctrination of any sort and secularism is the antithesis of indoctrination, not of religion.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: A Petition to Reinstate the Proselytisation of Young Girls
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2013, 09:52:56 PM »
You've worded that in a strange way but I assume you mean, "Should the oath be secular?"
No, that is not what I meant.

My question was, if they had gone from a Christian-only oath to one that allowed you to choose whether you wanted to recite it or a secular version, would you then argue or demand that only the secular one should be permitted?

Offline Azdgari

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Re: A Petition to Reinstate the Proselytisation of Young Girls
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2013, 02:43:34 AM »
^^ I don't know about Strawman[1], but I'd raise an objection to the present situation because it's trending towards religious exclusivism, and I wouldn't raise an objection in the hypothetical you describe because it's trending toward secularism.

The problem isn't just what's in the change itself, but in what it signifies about whose power is being exerted.
 1. so I'll avoid constructing one...
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