Author Topic: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...  (Read 595 times)

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Online wright

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Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« on: October 27, 2013, 12:54:10 PM »
From the Friendly Atheist at Patheos blogs:http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/10/27/to-be-with-her-father-in-heaven-girl-12-commits-suicide/

So heart-rending. One could argue that this had more to do with depression and grieving than her faith, but her faith was still key. It was the enabler that let her rationalize her suicide.

As someone who once seriously considered suicide and a year ago talked a good friend out of doing it themselves, I know the incredible emotional pain that can lead to killing yourself. It numbs, it overwhelms and fills your perception of the world. Anything that takes little effort and offers a chance at relieving that pain can seem desirable. Couple that with sincere belief in a happy afterlife...
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2013, 01:04:47 PM »
Terrible. She thought it was real because that is what she had been taught... I wonder how the mother is rationalising it all? Yes, it could have happened without the final note but being told the truth from the start about death could only have been to the child's benefit...

Very sad.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Nick

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2013, 01:06:28 PM »
I'm surprised we don't hear about this kind of thing more often.
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Online wright

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 01:23:28 PM »
^^^That we don't is probably the same reason suicide isn't more common than it already (tragically) is. The survival instinct is strong enough in most people to overcome even the immense pain that can lead to suicide. Religious folks whose faith teaches them the afterlife is better have all kinds of rationalizing why suicide is vewwy, vewwy naughty. As we on this forum have seen.

I don't mean to sound patronizing, but if you haven't experienced the intense depression and emotional numbing that can cause suicide, it's difficult to describe adequately. Those who haven't gone through it, or seen someone close to them in it, don't really understand how powerful and overwhelming that kind of pain can be. Someone considering suicide often maintains a seemingly "normal" outward appearance while they make their preparations, not wanting to "burden" family and friends with their problems.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline RubyLeo

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2013, 04:22:46 PM »
Heartbreaking.  :'(

I've often said I'll take physical pain over emotional pain ANY day.  I've been so severely depressed in my past that suicide was something I did try to plan for at one point.  When emotional pain gets that bad it is indescribable.

Did anyone notice that her father died in 2009 - four years ago? Makes me wonder how often she was told her dad would be waiting for her in heaven.  I'm obviously just pulling this out of my ass, but it nags at me.

If my husband died, I cannot imagine what I'd tell our children. I had always thought that telling someone their beloved awaits in heaven was a comforting thought -but here is evidence of how badly that can backfire...

 
"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. "
~ Thomas Paine

Online wright

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2013, 07:36:15 PM »
^^^Good points, RubyLeo; thanks for sharing.

Dealing with the reality and consequences of death are all the more sobering for atheists, and added reason for us to value life; ours and others'. One comfort I've found as I move deeper into middle age is the legacies my beloved dead have left behind.

The families they raised, the homes they built and kept, the businesses they founded, the gardens and orchards they planted, the words they wrote. All these people and things survive them and continue to delight me and so many others. Sure, none of it will last forever, but not even stars last forever.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline RubyLeo

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2013, 07:42:32 PM »
One comfort I've found as I move deeper into middle age is the legacies my beloved dead have left behind.

The families they raised, the homes they built and kept, the businesses they founded, the gardens and orchards they planted, the words they wrote. All these people and things survive them and continue to delight me and so many others. Sure, none of it will last forever, but not even stars last forever.

Beautifully stated, Wright!

My father was a very gifted artist and architect. He died in 2002. He left behind not only hundreds of his paintings and sculptures for us (his family) to enjoy, but also the beautiful home he designed and helped build in 1973 that we kids were all raised in.  I miss him every day, but he does live on through these legacies.
"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. "
~ Thomas Paine

Online wright

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2013, 08:47:24 PM »
Beautifully stated, Wright!

My father was a very gifted artist and architect. He died in 2002. He left behind not only hundreds of his paintings and sculptures for us (his family) to enjoy, but also the beautiful home he designed and helped build in 1973 that we kids were all raised in.  I miss him every day, but he does live on through these legacies.

Thanks. Your father sounds like quite a creative person; painting and architecture are very difficult skills to master.

My paternal grandfather managed the family ranch for most of his long life. He did everything from weeding bean rows to branding cattle to accounting, leaving the family a business that thrives to this day.

My maternal grandmother was a single mom of six, a union organizer in the 1930s and a volunteer at the Girl's Club in her home city for decades. Never went to college but had a mind as sharp as any I've ever met.

As you do your father, I miss them both very much. Well to be completely honest, Grandma Gladys more than Bill Cooper Sr.; he wasn't always easy to get along with. But I am nonetheless grateful for all they gave so freely, and find inspiration in how they lived their lives.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline RubyLeo

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2013, 08:59:45 PM »

My paternal grandfather managed the family ranch for most of his long life. He did everything from weeding bean rows to branding cattle to accounting, leaving the family a business that thrives to this day.

My maternal grandmother was a single mom of six, a union organizer in the 1930s and a volunteer at the Girl's Club in her home city for decades. Never went to college but had a mind as sharp as any I've ever met.

As you do your father, I miss them both very much. Well to be completely honest, Grandma Gladys more than Bill Cooper Sr.; he wasn't always easy to get along with. But I am nonetheless grateful for all they gave so freely, and find inspiration in how they lived their lives.

They both sound like amazing human beings who passed on lots of inspiration to you.  I'm especially wowed by your grandmother - talk about ahead of her time! Thanks for sharing.  :)
"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. "
~ Thomas Paine

Online wright

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2013, 09:32:58 PM »
Update: it's looking likely that key details of the original story were wrong. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/10/30/hoodwinked-the-story-of-the-girl-who-hanged-herself-to-be-with-her-dad-in-heaven-was-probably-made-up/

To sum up: a young girl did commit suicide following the death of her father (which is sad enough), but her motives are unclear. No sources in Poland (where this took place) collaborate her supposed religious beliefs, as reported in the Mirror, nor did she leave a note.

Sorry to have perpetuated this misinformation.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Online Nam

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2013, 10:06:44 PM »
You post the news as you read it. You followed up with a correction. No apologies necessary.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline magicmiles

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2013, 10:36:25 PM »
Your apology, although not really necessary, was classy. The blog writers article, if you read it all, smacks of arrogance. He says all the right things, initially, but refuses to just let the subject go for a while. He attacks a critic of the original article and repeatedly scoffs at him for his lack of grammar. The guy strikes me as a grade A wanker.
Go on up you baldhead.

Online wright

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 12:13:51 AM »
^^^Appreciate the support, guys. Still think I was a bit too quick, as was the writer I linked to, in uncritically accepting this. In the era of near-instant communication, it behooves everyone to be a bit more cautious in spreading stories around.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Online Nam

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2013, 12:22:40 AM »
^^^Appreciate the support, guys. Still think I was a bit too quick, as was the writer I linked to, in uncritically accepting this. In the era of near-instant communication, it behooves everyone to be a bit more cautious in spreading stories around.

Well, the next time you'll know better.

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online wright

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Re: Religious indoctrination kills a 12 year-old girl...
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2013, 12:58:04 AM »
^^^That's the ideal, Nam.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius