Author Topic: Greetings  (Read 1113 times)

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Offline Wasserbuffel

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Greetings
« on: October 22, 2013, 12:56:51 PM »
Hello all.

I'm 31 and have been an atheist since I was about 13 or 14 years old.  I was brought up to be a Christian, by my Protestant mother, but my "indoctrination" was paltry at best. The only times I remember my mother taking any of us to a church was a few random times for Christmas Eve services.  When I was around six-years-old my parents divorced, and on his weekends to have us my father took us to church.  Following my older brothers' example, I ran away to play in the parking lot more often than not.  I only have three strong memories of these churches. Strongest is a martial arts exhibition, which if they connected it to the Bible in any way, I cannot now remember.  Second is being the new kid at a Sunday school class, and the teacher frowning at me for not knowing the passages the other kids had studied.  Last is being given a coloring sheet depicting people worshiping the golden calf. I knew worshiping it was seen as a bad thing, and was at a loss to understand why I was coloring a picture of it. I was not forward enough to ask, plus for the first time in my life I had my grubby little hands on gold and silver crayons, and I intended to use them for all they were worth. 

So, there is my Church upbringing: People breaking blocks with their heads is cool, teachers expecting new students to know last week's material are unreasonable, OMFG,THEY MAKE GOLD AND SILVER CRAYONS!!

My mom just told us what she knew of bible stories, god, and Jesus, and simply expected that we would be Christians. We didn't really talk about religion much, it was just something that was.  There was no room for questions.  I could just as easily have questioned the fact that I was a girl, I was a Christian, and that's the way of it.  Her strategy worked well enough it seems, as all four of my siblings are theist. One of them has actually been baptized Catholic. I think if my eldest brother put enough care into thinking about it, and didn't have to worry about how his Catholic wife would receive it, I'm pretty sure he'd be an atheist too.  We've only had a few conversations, but I get the impression he leans strongly toward non-belief. 

Like I said, though, religion just wasn't something we discussed.  In fact it was only a couple months back that my older sister even found out about my atheism. Not that I've been hiding it at all, just that religion matters so little in our family that it had just never come up.  I'm pretty sure my mom doesn't know either, because we never have conversations where it would make sense to bring it up, and I don't think it's a big enough deal to make it some sort of pronouncement.

My coworkers do know. I've worked with the same three people for 8-13 years. Two are Catholic, but the one whose religion is strongest is some other type, I don't really know which. They don't treat me differently because of it, except the one has learned to ask me to "keep him/her/ in your thoughts" instead of asking me to pray for someone she wants people to pray for. My boss loves a good conversation about anything, and is open-minded enough to not be offended when his position is questioned.  I can't say we've ever had an actual debate, because he's a compulsive liar and will ALWAYS have just spoken to some expert or other on whatever topic we're discussing whose views happen to coincide with his. I don't say that to be disparaging, I truly think he can't help himself and there's no malice in his lies, just constancy.

Like many others here, it was the act of reading the bible that turned me away from belief.  Thinking I should strengthen my understanding of what my mom had taught me, I decided to read the stories for myself. I was horrified beyond belief at what the bible actually contained.  I stopped believing in god right then, and decided that even if he were real that I could not, and would not follow such a deity.

That was a bit of a ramble, I'm not generally so verbose.

Edited: Because I can't use parentheses.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 01:03:35 PM by Wasserbuffel »

Offline One Above All

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2013, 01:10:49 PM »
Welcome to the forum. Glad to see a female atheist joining. We don't have many of those around here (when compared to the male numbers).
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Wasserbuffel

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2013, 01:28:38 PM »
That's a reverse for me. I'm a member on a couple other web forums and they're overwhelmingly female. Although, those center around pets, hobbies, and childfreedom - which tends to be more of a social issue for women than men.

Offline Nam

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2013, 02:08:52 PM »
Stay away from Nam -- he's a real asshole. Only advice I can give on being a member here.

-Nam
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Offline William

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2013, 02:33:09 PM »
Although, those center around pets, hobbies, and childfreedom - which tends to be more of a social issue for women than men.
We have done those sorts of topics here  :)  Mostly in "Chatter" but children and freedom comes up a lot when we talk about how it's child abuse to brainwash kids into religion, and how certain religious beliefs run in families and cultures as a result.  There are a few threads discussing raising kids as free thinkers, and the challenges for them in society and in family life when not everybody is atheist.  Plenty for you to read and contribute to.  Plus a whole universe of other interesting topics.

Enjoy your stay and I look forward to seeing you on the forums.
Git mit uns

Offline Benny

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2013, 03:14:24 PM »
Good to see you, and welcome!  I think you'll enjoy it here.

Stay away from Nam -- he's a real asshole. Only advice I can give on being a member here.

-Nam
I second this  ;)

i'm sorry nam i was just making a joke i didn't mean it literally don't kill me please you are spectacular hugs and love forever
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Offline Wasserbuffel

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2013, 05:00:44 PM »
Quote
Mostly in "Chatter" but children and freedom comes up a lot when we talk about how it's child abuse to brainwash kids into religion, and how certain religious beliefs run in families and cultures as a result.  There are a few threads discussing raising kids as free thinkers, and the challenges for them in society and in family life when not everybody is atheist. 

I think you misunderstand. Childfree is how those of us who have actively chosen to not have children describe ourselves. Most people would call us childless, but many take issue with that term as the "less" part denotes a lack of something desirable. Since we don't desire children, we don't feel we're lacking anything.  I say this is generally more of a female social issue because societal pressure on women to have children is many times greater than it is on men. That's not to say there aren't plenty of childfree men in the world, but people don't generally treat a man as a thing against nature if he doesn't have children. 

I felt very at home when I saw mention of BINGO cards here in reference to common phrases uttered by theists when confronted with atheism. We have our own cards.  If you think godbotherers are bad, pronatalists are at least equally so.  People say things like:

It's different when it's your own. -- Yeah, I can't get away from it.
You'll change your mind.  -- What happens if my mind were to change AFTER it's born?
Who will take care of you when you're old? -- My big, fat bank account that I haven't spent raising kids.

I'm what we call an early adopter. I've known since I was quite young that I had no desire to have children, although I pretty much expected I would for a long time because I didn't know there was an option. Even as a young girl my desire to not have children was so strong that becoming a nun actually looked appealing, because in my limited world they were the only adult women I knew of that did not have children.  In middle school my girlfriends and I planned to buy a farm together when we were adults. In our dream each of us had a house on the same property, they with their husbands and children, I with my cats.

My childfreedom has been a greater social obstacle than my atheism. My in-laws never breathed a word to me about my non-belief, but we've gone rounds about my non-babies. My father-in-law was the most persistent. After husband and I bough our house, FIL pointed to the swings hanging from the tree and said all they need is a couple of (his) grandkids on them. I replied that I would invite his daughter and her kids over sometime to use them. That's one of many indirect appeals he made, but I'm not concerned. If he wanted more grandkids than his daughter has provided, he should have had more kids of his own.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2013, 05:05:16 PM »
<snip>

Childfree you say? How old are you? Maybe we could grab dinner some time. ;)[1]
 1. Kidding.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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We choose our own gods.

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Offline William

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2013, 05:13:30 PM »
I think you misunderstand. Childfree is how those of us who have actively chosen to not have children describe ourselves.

Yes wow! My mistake not reading "Childfreedom" the right way. Glad we cleared that up  ;D

Let me repeat my welcome. You add an interesting voice and dimension here - I'm now even more keen to hear your points of view :)
Git mit uns

Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 05:41:40 PM »
Welcome Wasserbuffel. I can almost spell that one.

The site has its ups and downs. On some days we get free theists to eat, on others, we have to scrounge for food amongst ourselves. But over all, it can be fun. If you can call voluntarily exposing oneself to whacko variations on religion fun.

All religions are whacko, and there are so many of 'em…

Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2013, 06:14:19 PM »
Welcome Wasserbuffel. I can almost spell that one.

The site has its ups and downs. On some days we get free theists to eat, on others, we have to scrounge for food amongst ourselves. But over all, it can be fun. If you can call voluntarily exposing oneself to whacko variations on religion fun.

All religions are whacko, and there are so many of 'em…



I thought I was the entertainment when theists weren't around. :'(

(I hate you!!!!)

;)

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline wright

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2013, 10:36:53 PM »
Thanks for the background, Wb. Love the story about crayons; I still remember the delight I felt at getting a BIG box of them when I was about that age.

Thanks for the education about childfreedom, as well. I'd heard the term before but like William, misunderstood it. Interesting that your in-laws had a bigger problem accepting that than your atheism.

Looking forward to seeing you around the forum.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2013, 10:55:07 PM »


All religions are whacko, and there are so many of 'em…

As opposed to Montanans, who are whacko but thankfully thin on the ground.
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Online Jag

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2013, 11:11:08 PM »
Welcome Wasserbuffel, looking forward to your input on the boards.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Nam

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2013, 11:29:15 PM »
Welcome Wasserbuffel, looking forward to your input on the boards.

You didn't say this on my Intro? Do I have an Intro?

I can't remember...

-Nam
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Re: Greetings
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2013, 11:47:36 PM »
^^^If you ever posted one, it was long before I arrived I imagine.

If you wrote one now, I'd have to think about an appropriate greeting for a while.  8)
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Nam

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2013, 12:02:41 AM »
^^^If you ever posted one, it was long before I arrived I imagine.

If you wrote one now, I'd have to think about an appropriate greeting for a while.  8)

It's on page two along with grammatical errors, and positions and thoughts I no longer hold. Of course it's copy/pasted from the old wwgha in 2007.

-Nam
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Re: Greetings
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2013, 12:53:44 AM »
Welcome Wasserbuffel. I can almost spell that one.

The site has its ups and downs. On some days we get free theists to eat, on others, we have to scrounge for food amongst ourselves. But over all, it can be fun. If you can call voluntarily exposing oneself to whacko variations on religion fun.

All religions are whacko, and there are so many of 'em…



I thought I was the entertainment when theists weren't around. :'(

(I hate you!!!!)

;)

-Nam

I'm not really a fan of myself either. But I love you, Nam... :-*

(Sorry Wasserbuffel, a few of us are trying to have issues in case we run out of theists and we end up having to hassle each other.  ;D)
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2013, 12:56:40 AM »
What the hell is with all the "I love you's" lately. I hope you people are joking 'cause that shit's sick. Next thing you know you'll be calling me by my birth name.

I might have to leave if that happen.





"might" -- just to be clear.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Wasserbuffel

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2013, 09:24:22 AM »
Thanks for the welcome all!

Thanks for the tip about staying away from Nam, Nam.  I'll be sure to keep from talking to that asshole.

Quote
(Sorry Wasserbuffel, a few of us are trying to have issues in case we run out of theists and we end up having to hassle each other.  ;D)

I doubt we'll run out of theist, but I understand. I have taken up a similar issue with a member on my CF board. He and I commonly disparage each other over our handedness. Me being a lefty and him a righty, we just can't seem to see eye to eye. ;)

Quote
Thanks for the education about childfreedom, as well. I'd heard the term before but like William, misunderstood it. Interesting that your in-laws had a bigger problem accepting that than your atheism.

Having been part of the CF culture for so long I tend to forget the term isn't widely known or used! It's ingrained in my lexicon and personal identity, and well known to those who know me because of it. There are also a surprising number of CF on my greyhound message board.

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2013, 09:35:23 AM »
What the hell is with all the "I love you's" lately.
We took junebug's words to heart.

Wasserbuffel, I'm not surprised to hear that you get more nonsense of choosing to be childless than over your non-belief - people seem perfectly willing to mind everyone else's business over the most personal matters. Has anyone ever suggested that the two are related? Just curious.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline neopagan

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2013, 09:37:43 AM »
Welcome aboard, Wb!

Had I not just read a post from Mar on here a couple days back about him pursuing antinatalism, I would have been thrown by the CF comment as well.

I've had a hand in[1] spawning 3 new earthlings, so I should be on your bad list... :)



 1. Don't take the phrase literally
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Online LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2013, 10:55:01 AM »
Hi WB and welcome - I used to be the crazy theist but I stopped believing so now I'm just plain crazy.   ;)
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Nam

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2013, 10:56:52 AM »
Hi WB and welcome - I used to be the crazy theist but I stopped believing so now I'm just plain crazy.   ;)

I believe it.

;)

-Nam
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Offline Wasserbuffel

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2013, 11:07:43 AM »
Quote
Wasserbuffel, I'm not surprised to hear that you get more nonsense of choosing to be childless than over your non-belief - people seem perfectly willing to mind everyone else's business over the most personal matters.


Isn't that the truth of it?  Nobody cares that I don't want to be an astronaut, or a tap dancer, but it matters to them if I don't make babies.

Quote
Has anyone ever suggested that the two are related? Just curious.

So far I haven't had anyone make the association to me, but I think there might be one. Just as most atheist have put more though into their position, the CF have generally done the same.  It's easy to just follow along with the Life ScriptTM. Graduation, college, job, marriage, babies, minivan, retirement, death; all the while following the religion you were indoctrinated into as a child. Society approves, no trouble.

I think the type of person who is able to break the mold in one aspect, is more likely to be able to in another.  Most of my CF friends are also atheist, one or two are pagan, and two are Jewish.

Quote
I've had a hand in[1] spawning 3 new earthlings, so I should be on your bad list...

Nah, spawn all you like. You're only on my bad list if you think your life choice is more valid than mine.  ;) Or if you're pushing one of the 15,000 damned strollers in the tunnel of the aquarium at the zoo. That place is gridlocked more often than not with those things!  ;)

Offline Nam

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2013, 11:09:15 AM »
If it makes you feel comfortable here, I'm 36 and have no children....I think.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline neopagan

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2013, 11:12:48 AM »
Nah, spawn all you like. You're only on my bad list if you think your life choice is more valid than mine.  ;) Or if you're pushing one of the 15,000 damned strollers in the tunnel of the aquarium at the zoo. That place is gridlocked more often than not with those things!  ;)

Ha - as long as there are enough warm bodies to keep Starbucks stocked with a fair amount of baristas, I could care less about peoples' reproductive choices (quiver-full, folks excluded!)   ;)
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Wasserbuffel

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2013, 12:23:01 PM »
I just did some googling on antinatalism, no wonder you thought you might be on my bad list!  I suppose some childfree might be anitnatalist, but it's definitely not most. I think I might have come across the term years back, but had forgotten it.

My position isn't that having babies is a bad thing in general. It's just a very bad thing for ME.

I do think there are some situations in which giving birth is not a good idea, but I also think it's not my business to push my opinion on someone.  I've got a friend whose family has a genetic kidney disorder. It's one of those that's passed down with a 25% chance of being active in a given child, but 100% chance of being passed down.  It's inactive in her and her sister, but their brother had to be in dialysis by the time he was 16 (Friend was completely torn up at her brother's suffering).  The sister decided she would not have children, and thus have zero chance of causing such suffering in any of her descendants.  I believe she made a good and honorable decision.  Friend has had two babies, and despite my thinking it's an incredibly stupid thing to do, she'll NEVER know my opinion.


Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2013, 01:17:13 PM »
Welcome WB. I have not been on here long myself but already feel part of it all.
I too look forward to reading your input on the threads.
Enjoy :D
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead