Author Topic: The usual Questions  (Read 1633 times)

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2013, 11:18:28 AM »
It certainly looks that way doesn't it :)  Apologies for all the spelling mistakes and lack of readability.  I'll blame it on one finger typing through an Apple iPhone interface.  Is there an edit option?

Anyway, thanks for all your comments.  Interesting viewpoints!  Your combined responses delivered what I was after.

Good luck with your search, research or whatever you are after!
Out of curiosity, what was it that you were after?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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Offline eddy_ydde

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2013, 11:22:36 AM »
^^^Does this mean you're not going to answer my question - the one you suggested in the first place?

Where would I like to be right now?  Well that depends on where I'm standing.  For instance right now I would like it to be tomorrow afternoon when I finally get back home after an eight hour flight :)

Honestly, I would like to think that we are all actually God getting a first-hand experience, and that experience includes what it's actually like to be an amputee!

Goodbye!

Offline Wasserbuffel

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2013, 11:48:14 AM »
Quote
Honestly, I would like to think that we are all actually God getting a first-hand experience, and that experience includes what it's actually like to be an amputee!

WTF?

Offline eddy_ydde

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2013, 11:49:47 AM »
Out of curiosity, what was it that you were after?

Earlier this week I was in Cairo and was curious about what was going on there with the military takeover of the recently democratically elected government.  I was speaking to a very religious and good person that I know for a really long time.  I was asking him about the situation and where he was “positioned” in terms of supporting one side or the other.  He mentioned that his religion teaches him not to get involved in protests unless his leader suppresses him from praying.  The definition of “leader” took on another discussion that I won’t go into here, but after getting back on track, I asked him whether he had any friends who were in support of one side or the other.  It turned out that he knew lots of close friends and acquaintances who held totally opposite extreme views, even situations where a father took one extreme view and his son took the other.  When I asked him whether any of his friends were open to looking at the other friends extreme opposite perspective, the answer was No! Categorically!


I couldn't understand why this was the case.  So I tested it in this thread, and got what I was after.

Bye!





MOD: Fixed Quotes
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 02:04:42 AM by Anfauglir »

Offline jdawg70

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2013, 11:52:53 AM »
Earlier this week I was in Cairo and was curious about what was going on there with the military takeover of the recently democratically elected government.  I was speaking to a very religious and good person that I know for a really long time.  I was asking him about the situation and where he was “positioned” in terms of supporting one side or the other.  He mentioned that his religion teaches him not to get involved in protests unless his leader suppresses him from praying.  The definition of “leader” took on another discussion that I won’t go into here, but after getting back on track, I asked him whether he had any friends who were in support of one side or the other.  It turned out that he knew lots of close friends and acquaintances who held totally opposite extreme views, even situations where a father took one extreme view and his son took the other.  When I asked him whether any of his friends were open to looking at the other friends extreme opposite perspective, the answer was No! Categorically!

I couldn't understand why this was the case.  So I tested it in this thread, and got what I was after.

Bye!
I think, maybe, I know what you're saying, but could you just explicitly state the result you are taking away from this?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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Offline Jag

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2013, 12:15:06 PM »
I'd think long and hard about the danger of drawing any conclusions based on such a small sampling of input from a few outspoken online atheists.

My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2013, 02:04:47 PM »
Honestly, I would like to think that we are all actually God getting a first-hand experience, and that experience includes what it's actually like to be an amputee!

This idea may be the point of why gods were imagined and created in the 1st place. As self aware and self interested beings, we seem to have a survival instinct, a desire to thrive, and a social desire to have a lasting degree of significance that leads to the need for a god/powerful one that can grant us these things. I think many of us don't necessarily desire for there to be a god that loves us as much as we desire to in some way and to somehow become godlike ourselves or at the very least gain some measure of immortality.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2013, 02:08:12 AM »
When I asked him whether any of his friends were open to looking at the other friends extreme opposite perspective, the answer was No! Categorically!

I couldn't understand why this was the case.  So I tested it in this thread, and got what I was after.

So what you are saying is that you picked a forum, posted a badly typed and confusing message, and because everyone didn't immediately say "gosh, yes, good point eddy, we ARE being silly" you have decided that atheists are just too blinkered to change their minds?

Well, if that's what you want to take away, fine.  Just remember - since you have (apparently) decided not to respond to any of the reasons we have given that your argument was flawed, YOU are just as blinkered and hide-bound and unwilling to change as the rest of us.

Hope that information proves useful to you.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline William

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2013, 04:27:52 AM »
In this case I submit that the meaning of "positioning" is a two-faced position forced by fear and intimidation.
Religion sucks.
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Offline eddy_ydde

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2013, 07:20:13 AM »
When I asked him whether any of his friends were open to looking at the other friends extreme opposite perspective, the answer was No! Categorically!

I couldn't understand why this was the case.  So I tested it in this thread, and got what I was after.

So what you are saying is that you picked a forum, posted a badly typed and confusing message, and because everyone didn't immediately say "gosh, yes, good point eddy, we ARE being silly" you have decided that atheists are just too blinkered to change their minds?

Well, if that's what you want to take away, fine.  Just remember - since you have (apparently) decided not to respond to any of the reasons we have given that your argument was flawed, YOU are just as blinkered and hide-bound and unwilling to change as the rest of us.

Hope that information proves useful to you.

Read into it whatever way you like.  Thanks for your wisdom and complements. 

Online jaimehlers

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2013, 08:36:09 AM »
I couldn't understand why this was the case.  So I tested it in this thread, and got what I was after.
By that, do you mean that it's human nature to support what you already think is true and to instinctively not look at evidence that contradicts that position?  Because that is true.  The difference is, some people have trained themselves to overcome their instinctive responses to differing information, so instead of refusing to even look at it, they are willing to look it over and consider whether it actually is true.  I think many of the people on this forum, myself included, have so trained themselves, but it's difficult.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2013, 12:52:46 AM »
When I asked him whether any of his friends were open to looking at the other friends extreme opposite perspective, the answer was No! Categorically!

I couldn't understand why this was the case.  So I tested it in this thread, and got what I was after.

So what you are saying is that you picked a forum, posted a badly typed and confusing message, and because everyone didn't immediately say "gosh, yes, good point eddy, we ARE being silly" you have decided that atheists are just too blinkered to change their minds?

Well, if that's what you want to take away, fine.  Just remember - since you have (apparently) decided not to respond to any of the reasons we have given that your argument was flawed, YOU are just as blinkered and hide-bound and unwilling to change as the rest of us.

Hope that information proves useful to you.

Read into it whatever way you like.  Thanks for your wisdom and complements.

Yep - looks like I was right.  You came here deliberately offering a vague and flawed suggestions, hoping that we would question it rather than worship you as the new messiah, so that you could retain your prejudices about atheists.  <shrugs>  Whatever floats your boat.

I'm happy to admit I am wrong in this opinion.  All you need to do is to address some of the points that have been made about your position.  Engage, rather than turning up with a "agree with me or you a re idiots" position.

Prove you are not what you claim we are.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Nam

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2013, 01:01:25 AM »
Hey! I'm willing to change...






























...my underwear at least once a week...













...if I wore underwear, that is...













...and sometimes I do.

;)

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Offline eddy_ydde

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2013, 04:32:14 AM »
I couldn't understand why this was the case.  So I tested it in this thread, and got what I was after.
By that, do you mean that it's human nature to support what you already think is true and to instinctively not look at evidence that contradicts that position?  Because that is true.  The difference is, some people have trained themselves to overcome their instinctive responses to differing information, so instead of refusing to even look at it, they are willing to look it over and consider whether it actually is true.  I think many of the people on this forum, myself included, have so trained themselves, but it's difficult.


Based on your comments it would appear to me that you are one of the lucky ones.  

Let me clarify where I'm coming from within the limited scope of a confusing thread which was supposed to focus on the video content:

Based on a fundamental set of inherited characteristics, and environmental constraints, everyone ends up getting a) pushed into position, b) follows a position or c) takes their own position within this phenomenon we are witnessing here, i.e. our existence.

The fact of the matter is nobody knows how we came into this existence and we can only speculate why we exist and even whether we exits in the first place.

For the purpose of participating, and continued participation in this phenomenon every single living entity has evolved to different levels of awareness and understanding of their own environment.  For some, the level which is sufficient for surviving in their environment is enough, while for other, like us, it goes way beyond survival.

When we go beyond the basics of survival, you start opening a multitude of pandoras boxes and half the stuff you begin to see flooding out is just a product of your own physical ability to understand the actual situation.  Your imagination is stimulated by external fundamental laws of the environment you live in.  

An example of this is our very colorful view we have of the universe that we appear to live in.  Although we see colors, the universe has no colour, there is no red, green or blue, and even if you could assign it with a color, the universe would be painted in an absolute pitch black.  All the universe is doing is radiating.  The stars are radiating and to better navigate our surroundings we have evolved detectors in an organ that sends electrical signals to our brain about this radiation and with this information we build a picture of our environment inside our heads.  We  have become highly sensitive to detecting this electro magmatic radiation, where we now have the ability to notice minor subtleties of the reflective properties of solids, liquids and gases, and our brain is able to use this data to build colorful interpretations of what's around us.

Combining the above with other senses, and time exposed to an environment, this creates our own personal identity and experience.     This experience shapes and wires an individual up in a specific way.  Depending on how much the person is able to filter and shape their own experience determines the level they end up acting, behaving and believing like others.

To me arguments like mass scale praying for a coin to flip in one direction over another is a stupid childish argument, to "others" its sufficient proof that prayer doesn't work and ticks another box that furter validates their own belief system.

While you read this, you will be stimulated in a specific way.  The way that you are stimulated has everything to do with your profile as a person, your passed experience, and how you as an individual were shaped.

Depending on how radically moulded you are, will depend on how constructive your contribution is to society.  If you are an atheist who spends most of your life on forums slating the beliefs of others, or contra, a religious fruitcake spending your life slating people like Richard Dawkins, your contribution is being limited, or possibly distructive.  

Some of you will be stimulated to rip apart everything I'm saying above, or home in on your interpretation of the command I have over the English language, or point out that my response is pointless and meaningless and is equally as stupid as I feel over the argument made over flipping a coin to prove the pointlessness of prayer.   Others will  respond differently, maybe with constructive comments stemmed by curiosity or the need to set a record straight. 

For others it will just be WTF.

Maybe it's time to get back the focus to the subject that started this thread and comment on the many valid and not so valid points that were made in the video as opposed to going off on this tangent?



Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2013, 10:51:08 AM »
The essence of being an atheist is understanding and taking control of your own identity.

People who passively adopt their own identity from the surrounding culture will assume that they have all the answers. One part of the culture is the religion. If you have seen religious countries, you know how bitter the disputes are. The disputes are not just about facts but about identity. Atheist countries are much healthier socially and more advanced scientifically.

It is not a question of examining whether an unknown god, which no one believes in, could exist. That kind of god is of no importance to anyone. The question is how the god which has been constructed in someone's head, has been constructed. What is the culture and texts it is based on. These questions can be analysed in the same way as any human question. Atheism is really about people and how they get their beliefs. Texts can be analysed and shown to be humanly constructed. Psychological tests have shown how a person's idea of god is an aspect of their own personality. Becoming an atheist means becoming aware of this, the debate is not about an unknown and irrelevant god.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2013, 02:09:35 PM »
Let me clarify where I'm coming from within the limited scope of a confusing thread which was supposed to focus on the video content:

Based on a fundamental set of inherited characteristics, and environmental constraints, everyone ends up getting a) pushed into position, b) follows a position or c) takes their own position within this phenomenon we are witnessing here, i.e. our existence.

The fact of the matter is nobody knows how we came into this existence and we can only speculate why we exist and even whether we exits in the first place.

For the purpose of participating, and continued participation in this phenomenon every single living entity has evolved to different levels of awareness and understanding of their own environment.  For some, the level which is sufficient for surviving in their environment is enough, while for other, like us, it goes way beyond survival.

When we go beyond the basics of survival, you start opening a multitude of Pandora’s boxes and half the stuff you begin to see flooding out is just a product of your own physical ability to understand the actual situation.  Your imagination is stimulated by external fundamental laws of the environment you live in. 
[…]
To me arguments like mass scale praying for a coin to flip in one direction over another is a stupid childish argument, to "others" its sufficient proof that prayer doesn't work and ticks another box that further validates their own belief system.
Maybe it's time to get back the focus to the subject that started this thread and comment on the many valid and not so valid points that were made in the video as opposed to going off on this tangent?

We at WWGHA are somewhat disappointed that you have missed the entire point of the site. There are few here who will not say that, in the full quote above, you have re-invented the bicycle but have forgotten to include a saddle or handlebars.

The forum is composed of people who, to one degree or another, are concerned with the way that religion affects their lives.

You will be aware that teaching children that “God did everything” is dangerous and wrong. Yet, there are many out there, in positions of power, who would do this.

There are those out there who simply have no critical thinking skills yet who will parrot the views of those who have been taught ignorance and superstition, and thus what they say comes about.

There is a small volume to be written on how and why this happens. But you arrive here and suddenly, after reading one or two pages, decide that you have the solution.

That is a natural reaction but one that is based in ignorance. Your Egyptian story is an example. Why would anyone be surprised at the conclusion?

On the broadest level, WWGHA fights ignorance. A small sector of ignorance, but a fight and ignorance nevertheless.

Your critical thinking skills are quite good, but they need broadening. I am not saying that WWGHA is for you, I am saying that there are probably ways in which you can help people elsewhere to avoid the pitfalls of ignorance.

As a final and, I hope, helpful point, you should broaden your views a little: examine all the causes, divine the essence of an argument and, always post with plenty of context – we neither have nor believe in ESP.

Thank you for your posts and replies. Feel free to return at any time, I feel you could develop into a good contributor.

GB Moderator
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 02:14:14 PM by Graybeard »
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline Nam

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2013, 02:38:52 PM »
What's with speaking as a mod?

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Offline eddy_ydde

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2013, 05:21:38 PM »
Let me clarify where I'm coming from within the limited scope of a confusing thread which was supposed to focus on the video content:

Based on a fundamental set of inherited characteristics, and environmental constraints, everyone ends up getting a) pushed into position, b) follows a position or c) takes their own position within this phenomenon we are witnessing here, i.e. our existence.

The fact of the matter is nobody knows how we came into this existence and we can only speculate why we exist and even whether we exits in the first place.

For the purpose of participating, and continued participation in this phenomenon every single living entity has evolved to different levels of awareness and understanding of their own environment.  For some, the level which is sufficient for surviving in their environment is enough, while for other, like us, it goes way beyond survival.

When we go beyond the basics of survival, you start opening a multitude of Pandora’s boxes and half the stuff you begin to see flooding out is just a product of your own physical ability to understand the actual situation.  Your imagination is stimulated by external fundamental laws of the environment you live in. 
[…]
To me arguments like mass scale praying for a coin to flip in one direction over another is a stupid childish argument, to "others" its sufficient proof that prayer doesn't work and ticks another box that further validates their own belief system.
Maybe it's time to get back the focus to the subject that started this thread and comment on the many valid and not so valid points that were made in the video as opposed to going off on this tangent?

We at WWGHA are somewhat disappointed that you have missed the entire point of the site. There are few here who will not say that, in the full quote above, you have re-invented the bicycle but have forgotten to include a saddle or handlebars.

The forum is composed of people who, to one degree or another, are concerned with the way that religion affects their lives.

You will be aware that teaching children that “God did everything” is dangerous and wrong. Yet, there are many out there, in positions of power, who would do this.

There are those out there who simply have no critical thinking skills yet who will parrot the views of those who have been taught ignorance and superstition, and thus what they say comes about.

There is a small volume to be written on how and why this happens. But you arrive here and suddenly, after reading one or two pages, decide that you have the solution.

That is a natural reaction but one that is based in ignorance. Your Egyptian story is an example. Why would anyone be surprised at the conclusion?

On the broadest level, WWGHA fights ignorance. A small sector of ignorance, but a fight and ignorance nevertheless.

Your critical thinking skills are quite good, but they need broadening. I am not saying that WWGHA is for you, I am saying that there are probably ways in which you can help people elsewhere to avoid the pitfalls of ignorance.

As a final and, I hope, helpful point, you should broaden your views a little: examine all the causes, divine the essence of an argument and, always post with plenty of context – we neither have nor believe in ESP.

Thank you for your posts and replies. Feel free to return at any time, I feel you could develop into a good contributor.

GB Moderator


Appreciate your post however I find the majority of your comments are condescending, inaccurate and rather judgemental, to say the least!

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2013, 02:02:02 AM »
Appreciate your post however I find the majority of your comments are condescending, inaccurate and rather judgemental, to say the least!

Just like most of yours then.   ;)

Greybeard, and myself, and others, while not disputing your point that rational and considered thinking is a Good Thing, have tried to explain that the vociferous voice of atheism is a necessary one raised against the centuries-long and continuing stranglehold of magical woo-think on the world.  You've not deigned to address, or even acknowledge, that point.  I feel that unless you are prepared to do so, and explain directly why it is irrelevant to your case, you will not make any headway here with what are clearly well-thought out ideas.

Your point seems to be that people are trained into knee-jerk reactions.  Perhaps so.  But if you believe that, is it not incumbent on you to take steps not to provoke such reactions, and to attempt to re-educate in a fashion your audience will respond to?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline eddy_ydde

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2013, 03:15:45 AM »

Just like most of yours then.   ;)

Greybeard, and myself, and others, while not disputing your point that rational and considered thinking is a Good Thing, have tried to explain that the vociferous voice of atheism is a necessary one raised against the centuries-long and continuing stranglehold of magical woo-think on the world.  You've not deigned to address, or even acknowledge, that point.  I feel that unless you are prepared to do so, and explain directly why it is irrelevant to your case, you will not make any headway here with what are clearly well-thought out ideas.

Your point seems to be that people are trained into knee-jerk reactions.  Perhaps so.  But if you believe that, is it not incumbent on you to take steps not to provoke such reactions, and to attempt to re-educate in a fashion your audience will respond to?

I acknowledge that there is a huge amount of nonsense rammed down peoples throats across the world in the name of religion,  however, it would appear, based on some of the content of this site, that there is an equal amount of rubbish coming out of the mouths of Atheists.  

Surely to God you can't be serious that the topics discussed on the main part of this web site (and more to the point, the video that started this thread) are based on well thought out ideas?

Anyway, this sites not for me.  I'm  more akin to a site that would discuss the stupidity and intellect of both sides and that's not going to happen here.  

I just stumbled upon this site quite by accident, posted a comment about a video, and was dragged off on a tangent, which ended up with me contributing to a load of onesided trash.

Keep up the good work and get out there and enjoy your life!

OAO

E.

Offline William

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2013, 03:28:27 AM »
.... there is an equal amount of rubbish coming out of the mouths of Atheists. 

Show us, we'd be happy to consider any better arguments you may have.
You might want to start a fresh thread though, in this one you just gave us mush to start and it didn't recover from there.
Git mit uns

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2013, 01:35:18 PM »
Eddy,

If you can't handle three or four days of very mild intellectual discourse on a forum....what did you expect to gain or contribute in Egypt?

Of coarse I don't expect a reply since you have seen fit to go the way, so this has been a rhetorical question. However, it would be nice to see you fully flesh out your ideas here for further examination and scrutiny. It certainly wouldn't hurt anyone and just might prove useful to some. It might make things more manageable and meaningful if you responded to individuals on this forum as individuals instead of addressing a "group" of ideas.

Whatever you decide, stay or go, I enjoyed reading your comments and hope you continue to pursue knowledge and understanding...wherever that quest may take you. 
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Offline eddy_ydde

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2013, 06:19:16 PM »
What is your religious stand point?

I'm an agnostic.

Offline One Above All

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2013, 06:23:35 PM »
I'm an agnostic.

Agnostic what? Agnostic atheist? Agnostic theist? You might as well state that your car is red when I ask you what brand it is.
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Offline eddy_ydde

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2013, 06:30:43 PM »

Not exactly Eddy. When those that claim a god to be real start defining that god in illogical and impossible means, then pointing out the fallicies they present isn't mere spectulation. It is more like testing THEIR speculation against what can be observed in reality to see if what they've spectulated has any merit worthy of consideration.

The need arises to stand against the gods created by men because men throughout history how used their gods as authorizers that allow for certain agendas to be pushed upon those that don't want to be forced to adhere to such nonsense. In other words, when your belief in gods or anything else begins an infringement upon my life, my freedoms, and my ability to be me, then if I am to defend my rights as well as the rights of others, then I am all but forced to speak against a god that is being used as a tool by men to oppress others.

I think many if not most people that post here could care less what one chooses to believe as long as the believer has a viable, reality based belief that is being promoted. However, if one's belief is a BS belief that the believer spreads and subsequently forces by military, political, or legal means on others, then there is a problem. 
 

Agree with most of the good points you are making here.  You are assuming that God is man made and if you are wrong then you are also wrong to stand up against it on the basis that some individuals hijacked the religion for their own political gains.  Stand up against the individuals and don't infringe on others.

Offline eddy_ydde

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2013, 06:32:02 PM »
I'm an agnostic.

Agnostic what? Agnostic atheist? Agnostic theist? You might as well state that your car is red when I ask you what brand it is.

No comment!

Offline One Above All

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2013, 06:36:03 PM »
No comment!

I'll take that as a "I have no idea what 'agnostic' really means and decided to use it as a middle-ground between belief and non-belief even though there is no such thing."
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline eddy_ydde

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2013, 06:38:22 PM »
I feel I can state with confidence that there is no god(s).
That is my view and there is absolutely no evidence to prove me wrong.
The burden of proof lies with those that claim there is a god,until that time there is no god(s).
Where would you like to be?

Good for you.  But stating that there is no evidence to prove you wrong is an amazing stance to take, and rather optimistic.  Have you magically tuned into every single experience from the beginning of time?  You're only aware of your own experience so you can't state that there is absolutely no evidence. 

Offline eddy_ydde

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Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2013, 06:59:54 PM »
Re taking a position on not believing in a god. This is fine, and some people including me require proof.

1) Scriptures - riddled with contradictions and bizarre morals - god does sweet FA about it.
2) Random suffering.
3) Necessary suffering (prey animals, child birth, teenage zits, etc).
4) Evolution - inefficient strange designs.
5) Prayers - statistically ineffectual.
6) Clergy - not zapped by lightning for sexual abuse and scamming the faithful.
7) Tens of thousands of religions and sects - mostly follow family or cultural heritage - many hating each other.
8 ) Good stuff in science like cures and solutions are withheld by god.
9) Uncanny similarity between many god-myths (including Jesus) and pagan myths.
10) Miracles are ambiguous, lack credible evidence, or are proven to be fake.
11) (Me personally - never experienced anything I could recognise as being from the "spiritual" realm.)
12) (Me personally - prayed my ass off, till I cried, for faith, but nothing came.)

That's not a complete list but enough evidence for me to say it is highly likely there is no god :) Although I'm comfortably 100% sure there's no BibleGod.

1) What do you expect from something compiled and edited by man over millennium?
2) That's life, each for their own.
3) That's life again.
4) That's evolution for you.
5) What do you mean here, at growing back limbs? If so, agreed.
6) Shocking that they are not.  I don't want to comment on this because it's sickening that this happens and is covered up.
7) That's people for you, hardly can get on with their own family not alone others.
8) Well if there is a god you have to credit him for also creating the cure.  Not sure how this proves that there is no god.
9) Agreed, but what has that got to do with the subject?
10) I've no experience or knowledge of miracles happening anywhere but the lack of this doesn't mean there is no god.
11) Me neither.  Most of the odd things I experience I just put down to coincidences.  Again, I'm not sure why this would prove or disprove the existence of a God.
12) Sorry to here about this and hope whatever it related to was sorted out in the end.