Author Topic: The usual Questions  (Read 1652 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Graybeard

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6457
  • Darwins +470/-16
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
The usual Questions
« on: October 19, 2013, 08:46:25 PM »
This, by  Hemant Mehta , should save some time just refer the usual questions to this thread : )

RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline eddy_ydde

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Darwins +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2013, 03:32:04 PM »
What a load of utter bollox!

Excuse me for my harsh eesponse but let's all try and face this so called reality.

Fact or fiction number one:  Is it not all beyond our minuscule comprehension?  Somewhat on the same par of trying to teach the concepts of a unified theory of everything to a donkey who's more interested in having his next shit?

Should we start to get real here?  Is it all not just a load of utter speculation on everyones side?

As utterly ridicules as it is to state that there is a god is it not equally rediculis to state that there isn't one?

If you want to believe that there is a god and that you will again meet the people that you have loved and lost,  well isn't that a means of providing someone with hope and a sense of worthwhileness?  Whereas if you're at peace within yourself that when your gone, that you're really gone, out of existence for eternity, while conveniently, completely oblivious to the fact thereafter.  Well isn't that an okay situation and place to be?  

Is it not problematic when the above beliefs become un-personalize at the event where one side starts to argue with the other that they are the ones who are right?

It would be interesting to know what you think!
  

Offline Jonny-UK

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
  • Darwins +31/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2013, 03:47:57 PM »
What a load of utter bollox!

Should we start to get real here?  Is it all not just a load of utter speculation on everyones side?
Well first of all welcome to the forum eddy.
Quite a first post and I am sure you are going to get many responses to it.

To not believe a god exists is not speculation.Something does not exist simply because people want it to.There is no actual evidence for a god so it is clearly not speculation- it is only speculation that a god does exist.

What is your religious stand point?
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline eddy_ydde

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Darwins +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2013, 03:57:12 PM »
Unless you know for a fact that there isn't a god surely you can only be speculating in the same way as one who equally has no ability to prove the existence of a god.

Where do I stand?  Somewhere between someone who has no clue and someone who equally has no clue :) Where would I like to be?  Well that's another question!


Offline Truth OT

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1451
  • Darwins +88/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2013, 04:00:04 PM »
Should we start to get real here?  Is it all not just a load of utter speculation on everyones side?

As utterly ridicules as it is to state that there is a god is it not equally rediculis to state that there isn't one?

If you want to believe that there is a god and that you will again meet the people that you have loved and lost,  well isn't that a means of providing someone with hope and a sense of worthwhileness?  Whereas if you're at peace within yourself that when your gone, that you're really gone, out of existence for eternity, while conveniently, completely oblivious to the fact thereafter.  Well isn't that an okay situation and place to be? 

Is it not problematic when the above beliefs become un-personalize at the event where one side starts to argue with the other that they are the ones who are right?

It would be interesting to know what you think!

Not exactly Eddy. When those that claim a god to be real start defining that god in illogical and impossible means, then pointing out the fallicies they present isn't mere spectulation. It is more like testing THEIR speculation against what can be observed in reality to see if what they've spectulated has any merit worthy of consideration.

The need arises to stand against the gods created by men because men throughout history how used their gods as authorizers that allow for certain agendas to be pushed upon those that don't want to be forced to adhere to such nonsense. In other words, when your belief in gods or anything else begins an infringement upon my life, my freedoms, and my ability to be me, then if I am to defend my rights as well as the rights of others, then I am all but forced to speak against a god that is being used as a tool by men to oppress others.

I think many if not most people that post here could care less what one chooses to believe as long as the believer has a viable, reality based belief that is being promoted. However, if one's belief is a BS belief that the believer spreads and subsequently forces by military, political, or legal means on others, then there is a problem. 
 

Offline Jonny-UK

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
  • Darwins +31/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2013, 04:09:26 PM »
I feel I can state with confidence that there is no god(s).
That is my view and there is absolutely no evidence to prove me wrong.
The burden of proof lies with those that claim there is a god,until that time there is no god(s).
Where would you like to be?
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline eddy_ydde

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Darwins +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2013, 04:33:45 PM »
What you're saying makes a lot of sense but maybe I'm speaking at too high a level for the points I'm trying to get across.  Religion and Politics are a different subject and mostly relate to power struggles for the participants, so as far as I'm concerned these elements are not even worth discussing.

Re taking a position on not believing in a god. This is fine, and some people including me require proof.   But just because you don't get it, doesn't justify that there isn't one. 

Everyone here is standing on the same platform.  Unfortunately this platform may possibly not be capable of seeing beyond its own horizon, so speculating whats beyond there is anyones guess. And stating that there is nothing could be right and equally wrong. 

I like to think that I'm in the best place but I'm opened to the idea that I am wrong.  And as far as my experience goes I'd rather be somewhere else but at the same time I'm quite content that I'm not stuck in one position or the other, which for me is freedom!

Offline William

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3564
  • Darwins +92/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2013, 05:07:34 PM »
Re taking a position on not believing in a god. This is fine, and some people including me require proof.

1) Scriptures - riddled with contradictions and bizarre morals - god does sweet FA about it.
2) Random suffering.
3) Necessary suffering (prey animals, child birth, teenage zits, etc).
4) Evolution - inefficient strange designs.
5) Prayers - statistically ineffectual.
6) Clergy - not zapped by lightning for sexual abuse and scamming the faithful.
7) Tens of thousands of religions and sects - mostly follow family or cultural heritage - many hating each other.
8 ) Good stuff in science like cures and solutions are withheld by god.
9) Uncanny similarity between many god-myths (including Jesus) and pagan myths.
10) Miracles are ambiguous, lack credible evidence, or are proven to be fake.
11) (Me personally - never experienced anything I could recognise as being from the "spiritual" realm.)
12) (Me personally - prayed my ass off, till I cried, for faith, but nothing came.)

That's not a complete list but enough evidence for me to say it is highly likely there is no god :) Although I'm comfortably 100% sure there's no BibleGod.
Git mit uns

Offline eddy_ydde

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Darwins +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2013, 05:26:13 PM »
The bible could be paralleled with a computer program that compiles full of bugs.  For some peoples interpretations after self sorting out the bugs it either compiles into Grand Theft Auto, paradise or anywhere in between.

The point I'm making isn't about the bible, the human condition, human suffering, etc.  It's all about positioning!

Offline Tero

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Darwins +17/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2013, 05:33:51 PM »
Yeah yeah. I got to about 2min. He is not special. Neither am I.

Offline William

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3564
  • Darwins +92/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2013, 05:36:34 PM »
The point I'm making isn't about the bible, the human condition, human suffering, etc.  It's all about positioning!

Please explain "positioning" :?

(I'm reasonably familiar with "positioning" in a marketing sense - heck I did a Masters thesis on it back in 1985 :P - but in this context it's new to me.)
Git mit uns

Offline eddy_ydde

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Darwins +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2013, 05:49:08 PM »
Well I hope you got a distinction or similar in the 80's :)

The meaning is all in the above posts and not to distant from marketing! Afterall, everyone is selling something all of the time at every human interaction.

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4636
  • Darwins +512/-12
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2013, 05:53:32 PM »
What a load of utter bollox!

Excuse me for my harsh eesponse but let's all try and face this so called reality.
Sure.  Facing reality isn't a problem for me, or for skeptics, or even for atheists.

Quote from: eddy_ydde
Fact or fiction number one:  Is it not all beyond our minuscule comprehension?  Somewhat on the same par of trying to teach the concepts of a unified theory of everything to a donkey who's more interested in having his next shit?
This is a cop-out.  Even if it were beyond our comprehension, it would still be worth trying to learn.  And it isn't even that it's "beyond our comprehension", it's that it's always other humans trying to explain it, even though it's evidently beyond their comprehension too.  Why wouldn't a god that really existed at least make the effort to explain, even if it were difficult?

Quote from: eddy_ydde
Should we start to get real here?  Is it all not just a load of utter speculation on everyones side?
It's true, religious faith is speculative at its base.  It's always someone who imagined what could be and, for whatever reason, decided that it was.  But atheism really isn't about speculation.  It's about holding a person accountable for whatever claims they make.  So while it's true that atheists can speculate, even on what might be out there, they generally don't make the mistake of deciding that it actually does exist without some hard evidence to back it up.

Quote from: eddy_ydde
As utterly ridicules as it is to state that there is a god is it not equally rediculis to state that there isn't one?
Sure.  But most atheists don't categorically state that gods don't exist.  What they say is that they don't believe in gods.  That's a critical distinction.

Quote from: eddy_ydde
If you want to believe that there is a god and that you will again meet the people that you have loved and lost,  well isn't that a means of providing someone with hope and a sense of worthwhileness?  Whereas if you're at peace within yourself that when your gone, that you're really gone, out of existence for eternity, while conveniently, completely oblivious to the fact thereafter.  Well isn't that an okay situation and place to be?
If a thing is not true, believing it won't make it so.  The problem doesn't come about when someone believes in something like a heaven, or a god - it comes when they start telling others that this heaven, or god, of theirs definitely exists despite the fact that they have no real evidence to support it.

Quote from: eddy_ydde
Is it not problematic when the above beliefs become un-personalize at the event where one side starts to argue with the other that they are the ones who are right?
Of course that's a problem.  But that's a problem that's been going on pretty much as long as there's been organized religion.  If you have a belief, and other people don't share it, it's unfortunately natural to argue, even fight with them over it.  Even stuff that is purely fictional gets argued about.  It's not a problem that's going to vanish - so what we need to do is channel it into things that are actually useful.

Quote from: eddy_ydde
It would be interesting to know what you think!
I hope you found my words interesting.

Offline William

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3564
  • Darwins +92/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2013, 06:09:54 PM »
The meaning is all in the above posts and not to distant from marketing!

Oh I see now.  What you seem to mean by "positioning" is actually "not take a position" :)
Having a bet both ways i.e. fence sitting.

That's kind of like Pascal's Wager.  Plenty of problems with it.  Like have I got the right god? :o
But my main problem with it is that a real god will know I've been "positioning".  A real god will respect me more for being confident and honest.  If the evidence points me somewhere I must go there - that's integrity. If god gives me other new evidence I'll change and go in the other new way - that's also integrity :)
Git mit uns

Offline eddy_ydde

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Darwins +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2013, 06:22:44 PM »
"Even if it were beyond our comprehension."

The brain is an amazing thing.  But if you think in a way that has a million times more capacity you would consider it quite limited.  The fact is we don't understand how our own brain works not alone something that is a million times more complicated and beyond.

We are stuck in our own limited perspective and built rules around this perspective to put some form of order around it.  This order has blinded us from making rational judgments within our mental capacity, and we are likely to never be able to go beyond this, or even if we manage to do it artificially we won't have the capacity to understand or own generated answers, even if it's just bordering our own capacity.

To think we know answeres to anything beyond our own horizon is quite frankly being disingenuous don't you think?

 


Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4636
  • Darwins +512/-12
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2013, 06:51:24 PM »
"Even if it were beyond our comprehension."

The brain is an amazing thing.  But if you think in a way that has a million times more capacity you would consider it quite limited.  The fact is we don't understand how our own brain works not alone something that is a million times more complicated and beyond.
But first, you have to show that such a thing exists.  There's no point in claiming that it does until we have something real that shows it.

Quote from: eddy_ydde
We are stuck in our own limited perspective and built rules around this perspective to put some form of order around it.  This order has blinded us from making rational judgments within our mental capacity, and we are likely to never be able to go beyond this, or even if we manage to do it artificially we won't have the capacity to understand or own generated answers, even if it's just bordering our own capacity.

To think we know answeres to anything beyond our own horizon is quite frankly being disingenuous don't you think?
Nope.  You're acting as if the limits on the brain's functionality prevent us from knowing anything beyond the range of our own five senses, which is not a meaningful position to hold.  Part of our development as a civilization has been the idea that we can know more, or at least eliminate things that are provably false, than just what's available to us.  Basically, we're creating a knowledge base which allows us to know more than what's just personally available to us.

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7270
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2013, 06:54:43 PM »
eddy - This is not some argument where both sides are equal.  There is a claim that a god, or gods have existed, or still exist.  That claim is completely unfounded in facts and evidence.  There are no gods, there never have been.  They are all made up by ignorant humans.  Unless you have something that could change those facts?

For that matter, no one can even agree on the definition of a god, even among people of the same belief systems.  It's a rather pathetic display of utter ignorance and wishful thinking.

The atheist is by far the most accurate on the question of the existence of any god or gods.  The atheist position is the most reasonable conclusion regarding the claim.  Period.

Offline stuffin

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 729
  • Darwins +26/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2013, 06:59:50 PM »
What a load of utter bollox!

Excuse me for my harsh eesponse but let's all try and face this so called reality.

Fact or fiction number one:  Is it not all beyond our minuscule comprehension?  Somewhat on the same par of trying to teach the concepts of a unified theory of everything to a donkey who's more interested in having his next shit?

Should we start to get real here?  Is it all not just a load of utter speculation on everyones side?

As utterly ridicules as it is to state that there is a god is it not equally rediculis to state that there isn't one?

If you want to believe that there is a god and that you will again meet the people that you have loved and lost,  well isn't that a means of providing someone with hope and a sense of worthwhileness?  Whereas if you're at peace within yourself that when your gone, that you're really gone, out of existence for eternity, while conveniently, completely oblivious to the fact thereafter.  Well isn't that an okay situation and place to be? 

Is it not problematic when the above beliefs become un-personalize at the event where one side starts to argue with the other that they are the ones who are right?

It would be interesting to know what you think!
 
I can prove to you there is no God.

Show me where he is so I can start.
I'd cut him if he stands, and I'd shoot him if he'd run
 Yes I'd kill him with my Bible and my razor and my gun

Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime.
Aristotle

Offline Graybeard

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6457
  • Darwins +470/-16
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2013, 08:31:39 PM »
Should we start to get real here?  Is it all not just a load of utter speculation on everyones side?

As utterly ridicules as it is to state that there is a god is it not equally rediculis to state that there isn't one?

I don't think that I have ever met a militant agnostic before, violently sitting on a fence... anyway, welcome.
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4419
  • Darwins +97/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2013, 09:04:49 PM »
The bible could be paralleled with a computer program that compiles full of bugs.  For some peoples interpretations after self sorting out the bugs it either compiles into Grand Theft Auto, paradise or anywhere in between.

The point I'm making isn't about the bible, the human condition, human suffering, etc.  It's all about positioning!
God like the bug filled programs are both of  human creation. God and the program are not perfect because both are invention of humans
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11680
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2013, 11:17:43 PM »
What a load of utter bollox!

"bollox" -- speel right, or left.

Quote
Excuse me for my harsh eesponse but let's all try and face this so called reality.

What's reality?

Quote
Fact or fiction number one:  Is it not all beyond our minuscule comprehension?  Somewhat on the same par of trying to teach the concepts of a unified theory of everything to a donkey who's more interested in having his next shit?

Or fuck, you don't know. Or do you?

Quote
Should we start to get real here?  Is it all not just a load of utter speculation on everyones side?

You weren't being real before? Poor start, man.

Quote
As utterly ridicules as it is to state that there is a god is it not equally rediculis to state that there isn't one?

I don't know what "rediculis" means. Sorry.

Quote
If you want to believe that there is a god and that you will again meet the people that you have loved and lost,  well isn't that a means of providing someone with hope and a sense of worthwhileness?

Sounds like lies. So, you believe people like to be lied to because it gives them hope, without evidence it actually is hope?

I see.

Quote
Whereas if you're at peace within yourself that when your gone, that you're really gone, out of existence for eternity, while conveniently, completely oblivious to the fact thereafter.  Well isn't that an okay situation and place to be?

Only if you're okay in being lied to, and are threatened in to being lied to, I guess. 

Quote
Is it not problematic when the above beliefs become un-personalize at the event where one side starts to argue with the other that they are the ones who are right?

Who's starting the argument?

Quote
It would be interesting to know what you think!

I doubt that.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Jonny-UK

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
  • Darwins +31/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2013, 07:03:29 AM »
As utterly ridicules as it is to state that there is a god is it not equally rediculis to state that there isn't one?
I can't work your angle out here.
If you are open to the idea a god might exist then neither point would be ridiculous.
If you believe in a god then only "not a god" would be potentially ridiculous.
If you are a non believer then only "is a god" would be potentially ridiculous.
I can not see how you can have both sides as equally ridiculous.
Or am I missing something?
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline Anfauglir

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6198
  • Darwins +407/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2013, 07:42:39 AM »
If you want to believe that there is a god and that you will again meet the people that you have loved and lost,  well isn't that a means of providing someone with hope and a sense of worthwhileness?  Whereas if you're at peace within yourself that when your gone, that you're really gone, out of existence for eternity, while conveniently, completely oblivious to the fact thereafter.  Well isn't that an okay situation and place to be? 

Is it not problematic when the above beliefs become un-personalize at the event where one side starts to argue with the other that they are the ones who are right?

Guessing English isn't your first language?   ;) 

I think what you are saying here is "if you are okay with your own position, just be quiet and enjoy it as you are happy and not hurting anyone.  The problem comes as soon as someone starts to argue and try to assert they are right".  Have I understood you correctly?

If that IS your position, then it's just like Nam says - "who's starting the argument?"  Not the atheist side, that's for sure - for centuries we have had the believers telling everyone that there is definitely a god, so live this way, do this, do that - and jump on this bonfire if you don't bow down to what we are saying.   Today its still very much the same way (minus the bonfires - though only in the first world, religion STILL kills people in the third world) with believers asserting their view is correct so we must all do this, pray here, teach that.

So for the last few decades we've had atheists stepping up and saying "so PROVE it, or shut up" - pretty much exactly the position you seem to be wanting people to take.  For the last few decades out of the last several centuries, atheists have started to push their position the way the believers have been pushing theirs....and all of a sudden there is a vogue by people like yourselves that EVERYONE should shut up.

well, no sir.  They started it.  They are continuing it.  If we don't speak now, they will continue it for ever.  As soon as THEY shut up and stay silent but happy bunnies, so will we. 

But until that happens, we MUST keep speaking out.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Foxy Freedom

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1185
  • Darwins +81/-11
  • Gods become obsolete all the time.
    • Foxy Freedom on Doctor Who
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2013, 09:23:39 AM »
To think we know answeres to anything beyond our own horizon is quite frankly being disingenuous don't you think?

Yes. That is what religious people do when they invent gods. These gods are then used to oppress others. Fortunately it is not difficult to disprove these invented gods. The problem is getting people to admit that their gods are inventions, because their gods are in fact part of the person's own personality and identity.

You say it is all about positioning and you should be neutral. Do you think you should be neutral when religions harm both individual people and society? Religion is anti science for example, which forces it to be against everything which makes the modern world a comfortable place to live, including the medicine which allows you to stay in this world. If religious people took over the world again how long do you think your "freedom" would last?


If you want to believe that there is a god and that you will again meet the people that you have loved and lost,  well isn't that a means of providing someone with hope and a sense of worthwhileness?  Whereas if you're at peace within yourself that when your gone, that you're really gone, out of existence for eternity, while conveniently, completely oblivious to the fact thereafter.  Well isn't that an okay situation and place to be? 
 

Believing in gods and an afterlife are two different things. Buddhists believe in an afterlife but without any gods. Believing in an afterlife is less harmful than believing in gods but it still means that you have less of a stake in the real world.
Neither Foxy Freedom nor any associates can be reached via WWGHA. Their official antitheist website is http://the6antitheist6guide6.blogspot.co.uk

The 2nd edition of the free ebook Devil or Delusion ? The danger of Christianity to Democracy Freedom and Science.       http://t.co/2d1KcJ9V

Offline Jag

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1613
  • Darwins +174/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Official WWGHA Harpy, Ex-rosary squad
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2013, 09:24:57 AM »
Where do I stand?  Somewhere between someone who has no clue and someone who equally has no clue :) Where would I like to be?  Well that's another question!
Then consider it asked: where would you like to be?
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Tero

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Darwins +17/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2013, 09:54:48 AM »
Militant agnostics are passive aggressive. They feel superior to atheists and theists.

Offline Wasserbuffel

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Darwins +19/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2013, 10:18:09 AM »
Fact or fiction number one:  Is it not all beyond our minuscule comprehension?  Somewhat on the same par of trying to teach the concepts of a unified theory of everything to a donkey who's more interested in having his next shit?

Should we start to get real here?  Is it all not just a load of utter speculation on everyones side?

As utterly ridicules as it is to state that there is a god is it not equally rediculis to state that there isn't one?

If you want to believe that there is a god and that you will again meet the people that you have loved and lost,  well isn't that a means of providing someone with hope and a sense of worthwhileness?  Whereas if you're at peace within yourself that when your gone, that you're really gone, out of existence for eternity, while conveniently, completely oblivious to the fact thereafter.  Well isn't that an okay situation and place to be? 

Is it not problematic when the above beliefs become un-personalize at the event where one side starts to argue with the other that they are the ones who are right?

It would be interesting to know what you think!
 

You're arguing two different things here. Knowledge and belief. 

The first part of your post is where you're arguing gnosticism and agnosticism. Those refer to what we think we can know. Theists and Atheist can agree with each other here. A gnostic, whether theist or atheist, thinks humans can know whether or not there is a god. While agnostics, both theist and atheist, think there is not enough evidence either way, and we cannot know for sure.

Theism and Atheism refer to what we believe to be true, regardless of whether we also believe we can know the truth or not.

Most theists are gnostic theists. They both believe in god(s) and think we are capable of knowing that the existence of god is a face.  An agnostic theist would believe in god despite not thinking they can know the truth.

Most atheists are agnostic atheists.  We don't believe in any god, but don't think we can know whether there is a god or not.

Here's a good comparison:
http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/


On your first part; Yes, gnostics on each side are speculating on the truth of the matter.

As for beliefs; so long as one side's beliefs aren't harming the lives and happiness of people on the other side, or even on the same one, then there is no problem.  Theists, however, very often use their beliefs to interfere with others' lives. Very real harm has been done in the name of many, many gods, so there is real danger  in people's belief in god.

Offline eddy_ydde

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Darwins +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2013, 10:50:11 AM »

Guessing English isn't your first language?   ;) 


It certainly looks that way doesn't it :)  Apologies for all the spelling mistakes and lack of readability.  I'll blame it on one finger typing through an Apple iPhone interface.  Is there an edit option?

Anyway, thanks for all your comments.  Interesting viewpoints!  Your combined responses delivered what I was after.

Good luck with your search, research or whatever you are after!

MOD: Fixed Quotes
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 02:03:34 AM by Anfauglir »

Offline Jag

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1613
  • Darwins +174/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Official WWGHA Harpy, Ex-rosary squad
Re: The usual Questions
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2013, 10:59:06 AM »
^^^Does this mean you're not going to answer my question - the one you suggested in the first place?
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.