Author Topic: Why won't God heal amputees? Because he can make you win at life without it.  (Read 17074 times)

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Long story short, for me to not believe in a deity is to break life down to matter and energy and leave morality to being relative.

Sure, you can do that.
That would fit in the criteria for "atheist", but it would also make you a human with no more social skills than a Dalek. *EXTERMINATE*

Therefore, why should anyone 'care' about an amputee?

Sympathy, Empathy, society, instincts and general human emotions.
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Offline Goku

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I'm not sure about intervening, I'm a highly sceptical christian, who a lot of the times asks myself the same questions as on godisimaginary.com. The bible says that god is a relational god, so I would have to yes he can/has/done, but I cannot explain it. It seems unjust to me as well, but I'm not trying to sell it, it's just what I'm more convinced with at the moment as compared to being my own god I guess.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Honestly Goku, propose a theory of god.

Heck, post some evidence.

If you cannot, then you may want to look back at your beliefs, reflect, and notice some...err...lack...of  an existence.
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Offline Goku

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Angus and Alexis
Yes maybe your right, I shall revert to pure intellectual debate and leave honesty and openness to those with less thought capacity.
 God created us for his purpose, not our own, to question why is understandable but to claim unfair is not really valid, as we don't 'deserve' anything, as life itself is a gift.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Yes maybe your right, I shall revert to pure intellectual debate and leave honesty and openness to those with less thought capacity.

Please remember than honesty does not equal truth.
I can honestly say that i saw a potato fall from the sky, does not mean anything unless i can back it up.

God created us for his purpose, not our own, to question why is understandable but to claim unfair is not really valid, as we don't 'deserve' anything, as life itself is a gift.

You are going to have to give some form of evidence, otherwise, your claim is not more valid than a random Muslim saying the same thing.
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Offline Goku

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Eye witness accounts of Jesus life,miracles, death and resurrection prove it's validity and therefore give logical evidence that his teachings and sinless life are accurate and true. This points us not only to a god, but a highly relational god.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Eye witness accounts of Jesus life,miracles, death and resurrection prove it's validity and therefore give logical evidence that his teachings and sinless life are accurate and true. This points us not only to a god, but a highly relational god.

9_9 I wont even start with how god is described as a genocidal maniac.

Anyway, post the links to your sources, that is a good start.
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Offline Goku

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Sources... The bible is a good place to start. Other sources outside the bible also refer to Jesus such as Josephus among others.
 You seemed quite convicted that homosexuality is not by choice in an earlier reply, what evidence would you have to prove that?



Offline Angus and Alexis

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You seemed quite convicted that homosexuality is not by choice in an earlier reply, what evidence would you have to prove that?

That's it.

Come on, take off your pants, i did say i would castrate you if you said it was a choice.

*Snip snip*

Sources... The bible is a good place to start. Other sources outside the bible also refer to Jesus such as Josephus among others.

Saying "i haz sauce" is not going to cut it, you need to post them.

Say it with me, "P-O-S-T" them.
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Offline Goku

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Lol, ok just chill and put the scissors down..... I didn't say it WAS a choice, I just said to provide some evidence for your 'apparent' position, as you also ask for evidence.

This site does provide the text of Josephus and other sources as well

http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Divin/D-0201.htm



Online One Above All

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You seemed quite convicted that homosexuality is not by choice in an earlier reply, what evidence would you have to prove that?

Choose to become homosexual. I dare you. Then you'll see why it's not a choice. You can't choose who/what you like.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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The fact that you require evidence implies you belong to the side that says otherwise.

So do you want ALL the skin removed, or leave some on? *snip*

Anyway, here is a bucketload of stuff that has been put on wikipedia, its not the best when it comes to reliability, but feel free to point out any bad sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Biological_differences_in_gay_men_and_lesbians

As for your source, i stopped reading when it claimed that Jesus's existence is hidden because people think it is religion.

If there were some valid sources that most certainly say that there was such a magical man, it would be taught.
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Offline lotanddaughters

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Eye witness accounts of Jesus life,miracles, death and resurrection prove it's validity and therefore give logical evidence that his teachings and sinless life are accurate and true. This points us not only to a god, but a highly relational god.

First, you have the Hebrew Bible. Real, scientific, scholarly consensus is this:







Or, if you aren't into watching videos, you can begin your honest quest for the truth here:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis


Notice: If you type "docu" in the Wikipedia search bar, "Documentary hypothesis" becomes the ninth choice in the convenient "drop down" list. It must be at least a popular item, if not an important one. You decide.



Second, you have the New Testament. The Jews never bought into all that rubbish. They were content with their own fairy tale. It's just like the Christians who don't buy into the Book of Mormon.





Or:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels

Offline Goku

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Quote
Quote from: Goku on Today at 08:11:13 AM
You seemed quite convicted that homosexuality is not by choice in an earlier reply, what evidence would you have to prove that?

Choose to become homosexual. I dare you. Then you'll see why it's not a choice. You can't choose who/what you like.

But that is not scientific evidence?
As for the source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Biological_differences_in_gay_men_and_lesbians
not only does it not prove that sexual preference is genetic but it seems quite plausible for me to be introduced to homosexuality with the right amount of stimuli and varying factors over a period of time that I could become homo or bi-sexual by choice, according the studies.


Offline Angus and Alexis

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As for the source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Biological_differences_in_gay_men_and_lesbians
not only does it not prove that sexual preference is genetic but it seems quite plausible for me to be introduced to homosexuality with the right amount of stimuli and varying factors over a period of time that I could become homo or bi-sexual by choice, according the studies.

What a blatant lie.
In the section you posted, there is not a single sentence that states your claim.
If you bothered reading the section you posted, you would know that all the examples listed are genetic, and some cognitive differences.
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Offline shnozzola

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You seemed quite convicted that homosexuality is not by choice in an earlier reply, what evidence would you have to prove that?

Of the many christian viewpoints, I believe the one against homosexuality I find the most horrible, sickening, the most outdated and dangerous to society.  Goku, prove to me whether you are right or left handed and why that is, and we will talk about the choice of homosexuality.
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Offline screwtape

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The bible says that god is a relational god, so I would have to yes he can/has/done, but I cannot explain it. It seems unjust to me as well, but I'm not trying to sell it, it's just what I'm more convinced with at the moment as compared to being my own god I guess.

So, you are "very skeptical" yet you are convinced of an idea without any more evidence than "the bible says".  I think that summarizes you post.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Offline screwtape

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Eye witness accounts of Jesus life,miracles, death and resurrection...

There are none.  Sorry.
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Offline screwtape

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Sources... The bible is a good place to start. Other sources outside the bible also refer to Jesus such as Josephus among others.

He was not a contemporary of jesus H and certainly never met him. And unless I am mistaken, he speaks of Xians, not the man.  There are a ton of "did Jesus really exist " threads here and they cover the lack of evidence in depth. Look one up to spare us the tedium of repeating the whole conversation.
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Offline Hatter23

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I'm a highly sceptical christian.

Highly Skeptical of what? Because you can't be skeptical about Jesus and Yahweh due to the lack of evidence for them and retain belief in them
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline lotanddaughters

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But that is not scientific evidence?
As for the source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Biological_differences_in_gay_men_and_lesbians
not only does it not prove that sexual preference is genetic but it seems quite plausible for me to be introduced to homosexuality with the right amount of stimuli and varying factors over a period of time that I could become homo or bi-sexual by choice, according the studies.
Wrong. Very wrong. If becoming homosexual was a choice, most men would have done so already.

If I became a homosexual today, a whole new world of endless willing sex partners would immediately become available. There is an endless supply of men who would let you fuck them in the ass if you let them fuck you in yours.

The problem is, I'm only attracted to women. I can't help it.

Sure, I've been successful in having sex with many women, but there are many many more women that I wish I could have sex with that I will never get to have sex with.


Put it this way. If I had a choice to either find 100 willing sex partners in one week(and I wasn't allowed to pay them), or get tortured to death, it would be better for me to focus all my efforts toward the homosexual male population.

Furthermore, I never had the desire to have butt sex with women, let alone men. I can't choose otherwise. I don't like garlic or onions on my vanilla ice cream. I can't choose otherwise. Sure, preferences can change ever time, but things like sexuality cannot.


Also, if you're homosexual, you won't have to worry about getting someone's asshole pregnant.




EDIT: WTF? System would let me type "butt sex", but wouldn't allow for the most popular term. It took me forever to find the "culprit".
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 11:55:33 AM by lotanddaughters »
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Offline Astreja

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Sources... The bible is a good place to start.

The Bible has stories about a flood that never happened and about a Talking Snake™.  It is disqualified as a serious reference until such time as I receive a real, live Talking Snake™ of My very own.

Quote
Other sources outside the bible also refer to Jesus such as Josephus among others.

First of all, Josephus is not a primary historical source:  He wasn't even born at the time of the alleged events described in the Gospels.

Secondly, the key "Jesus" passage, the Testimonium Flavianum, is of questionable authenticity.  It would appear that a copyist inserted the Jesus reference many years later (the primary suspect being Eusebius, who is actually on record as having said that lying is acceptable when spreading the word.[1])

What you have there, Goku, is at best hearsay many years after the fact and at worst a complete fabrication.
 1. "How it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived."
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 01:08:03 AM by Astreja »
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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The Bible has stories about a flood that never happened and about a Talking Snake™.  It is disqualified as a serious reference until such time as I receive a real, live Talking Snake™ of My very own.

For some reason, i now really want a talking snake...
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Offline jaimehlers

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As for the source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Biological_differences_in_gay_men_and_lesbians
not only does it not prove that sexual preference is genetic but it seems quite plausible for me to be introduced to homosexuality with the right amount of stimuli and varying factors over a period of time that I could become homo or bi-sexual by choice, according the studies.
Really?  I think you'd better spend a bit more time studying that wiki page.  I fail to see how something like brain size could be anything but genetic, for example, and there's quote a lot of other physiological factors listed there where it makes no sense at all for them to not have a genetic component.  What you seem to have misunderstood is that physiological differences are very often based on genetics - as evidenced by something as simple as hair or eye color, not to mention things like hand/brain preference.  I can speak personally of this, as I'm naturally left-handed, but I was made to use my right hand when I was very young.  Even today, my right hand is the hand I use for many things, but my left side is still my dominant side.

That being said, I don't think genetics is the only factor - this goes back to the nature vs nurture debate that crops up periodically.  It's like being genetically predisposed for something like diabetes.  That doesn't automatically mean that you'll have diabetes, but it does dramatically increase the chances that you will.  Or, to go back to the handedness example, you might be able to influence someone to use their off-hand instead of their primary hand, but it doesn't keep that from being their primary hand.  It also doesn't keep them from suffering psychological issues due to the forced swap.

Offline wheels5894

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I'll vouch for the handedness thing, jaimehlers. I am in my 60s but of people of my parents generation to use the right had to write and continued to and, I imagine, people thought that they had been 'converted' to be right-handed. Of course that hand't happened and all that had been done is to get them to write with the right hand. (For interest, is being left-handed an asset in languages where the writing the right to left such as Hebrew and Arabic?) I think this illustrates the whole misunderstanding of sexuality and the ideas of people that gay people could be 'cured'.

Really, there ought not to be any question about this any more - it has been shown to be a state of a person just like handedness. I wonder if any of the objectors thing they could be 'converted' to be gay....
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Offline IknowGod

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That was a pastor response to that question:

Question: Why won't God heal amputees?
Answer: Because God can make you win at life without legs or arms. He doesn't need you to be perfect. He can do anything.

What do you think about this argument


If you would read your bible, you would know that all healing if based on the person having the "faith" to receive it.  You must believe that God can and will heal you.  I have been healed by God.  I had to have several surgeries on my back and neck due to a couple of bad accidents.  I have 4 metal rods and 10 three inch screws in my low back and more screws in my neck.  Needless to say I was in a lot of pain and some of the times had problems walking due to nerve damage.  The doctors said I would have to be on pain pills and muscle relaxers the rest of my life, plus I needed the assistance of a cane on a regular basis.  They were wrong.  God has healed me of all pain.  I no longer take pain medication for anything nor do I have to use a cane any longer.  God does not cause people to get ill.  Satan and the persons lifestyle does that.  You can not smoke and expect God to keep you from getting cancer.  But, you can repent of smoking and ask God to heal you and he will if you have faith to believe that he "is" and that he can.  You can not walk in sin and expect God to do miracles for you.  If you really want to know if God is real, stop living in sin.  Repent and believe in Him and you can see miracles in your own life.  God is an amazing healer. :) :)


edit - fixed quote
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 09:35:12 AM by screwtape »

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Welcome IknowGod.

My knees used to kill me, and I thought I'd be crippled the rest of my life. But they are all better now without doctors. The only problem is that I neither prayed for relief or expected any. I've been an atheist for 50+ years. Go figure.

I'm wondering if you can explain what babies do wrong to deserve cancer or birth defects or missing limbs or other problems? Did they urinate in the womb or something?

We atheists understand that sometimes nice things happen and sometimes terrible things happen, and no god needs be involved. Which is lucky for us because there isn't one. I don't know why you're better, and I'm glad you are, but I can say with confidence that it wasn't your god fellow.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline IknowGod

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I know it is hard for someone with no understanding to make sense of God.  Let me ask you a question.  You believe, I am thinking in the "big bang"?  Well, why don't you prove that?  When has any order came from an explosion?  I tell you what, why don't you take your watch apart put it in a bag and shake for a million years and when you pull out a complete working watch from the bag, I will believe you.  Like that would ever happen.  (NOT)  Oh, and according to that theory, where did the first ameba come from that life supposedly started from, who made it??   
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 07:28:17 PM by IknowGod »

Offline median

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I know it is hard for someone with no understanding to make sense of God.  Let me ask you a question.  You believe, I am thinking in the "big bang"?  Well, why don't you prove that?  When has any order came from an explosion?  I tell you what, why don't you take your watch apart put it in a bag and shake for a million years and when you pull out a complete working watch from the bag, I will believe you.  Like that would ever happen.  (NOT) &)

I was a born again, bible believing, bible preaching, Christian for nearly 20 years. I "brought souls to Christ", felt "the holy spirit", went on many mission trips, and defended the faith online and elsewhere. You don't think we have heard these arguments before? The early expansion of the universe (aka - the big bang) is demonstrable scientific fact. And that fact doesn't say anything about a god or not - b/c lots of Christians accept the big bang but just say "God did it"! See where you are already in error here?

The other argument you are making is also in error. It assumes that evolution (which is what you are ignorantly trying to attack) happened randomly. But it didn't! Natural selection is not a random process. Your argument shows that you know little to zero about what evolutionary biology actually states. Maybe let's start there. Why would you assume to know something is wrong about a subject you haven't studied?

Btw, you could refute the fact of evolution tomorrow (hypothetically) and that still wouldn't lend one bit of credibility to your BELIEF about some thing you call "God". Just like everyone else you would still have all your work ahead of you to demonstrate your claims are not just superstition.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 07:33:25 PM by median »
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