Author Topic: Obamacare - or the PPACA.  (Read 663 times)

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Offline MadBunny

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Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« on: October 13, 2013, 12:47:54 PM »
Ok, so who doesn't understand how this works?


It's pretty straightforward, but I wound up explaining it to several people last week as part of their financial goals, as well as *why* having the right kind of insurance is important in the long term.  I get the feeling that with all the weird information floating around people kind of have the wrong idea of what it actually is.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 12:50:49 PM by MadBunny »
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2013, 12:51:00 PM »
As a glorified Aussie, i have no idea what it even is.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2013, 02:31:52 PM »
Ok, so who doesn't understand how this works?


It's pretty straightforward, but I wound up explaining it to several people last week as part of their financial goals, as well as *why* having the right kind of insurance is important in the long term.  I get the feeling that with all the weird information floating around people kind of have the wrong idea of what it actually is.



I forget what show I saw it on but one guy went around asking if people were for Obamacare or the Affordable Care Act, and most said they were against Obamacate but in favor of the Affordable Care Act not realizing or some not believing when told afterward that they are the exact same thing.

It's probably the same thing.

-Nam
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2013, 03:28:16 PM »
As a glorified Aussie, i have no idea what it even is.

It's a form of insurance reform in the USA.  Essentially what it does is clear up the propensity toward adverse selection in the insurance market by mandating that everybody get their own insurance coverage.  One of the ways it does this is through subsidies for people who don't qualify for government health care (Medicaid).  The subsidies are on a sliding scale so the more you make, the lower the subsidy till eventually there is none.

In terms of medical insurance there are all the usual plans that are on the marketplace, though one of the lowest cost versions is essentially a 'major medical' plan.

To give you an idea of cost I ran the numbers for one of my co-workers, her cost would be about $53 a month, but has a fairly high out of pocket deductible of $5,500.  Medication and doctor visits require a copay, but ongoing prescriptions are covered (eg; birth control).   When ran the numbers for myself, since I make more than she does, my premium would be $157 a month for the same plan, same out of pocket etc..

Now, if you're the kind of person that can take that savings and show enough discipline you can use your medical savings as actual savings and build up an emergency account that has that money in it, at reasonable interest and be better off, or even create an HSA which grows and distributes tax free. (conditions apply)

There are problems with the system, naturally but that's it in a nutshell.
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2013, 03:42:22 PM »
I forget what show I saw it on but one guy went around asking if people were for Obamacare or the Affordable Care Act, and most said they were against Obamacate but in favor of the Affordable Care Act not realizing or some not believing when told afterward that they are the exact same thing.

I've also seen people saying that they think there are death panels  (the best practice commission), tracking chips (electronic records) and that they should just 'opt out' and pay the penalty tax of $90 only signing up when they get sick or injured (doesn't work that way).

One of the common complaints I see is that "It's too long, too complicated" but lets face it; this is a law that impacts millions of people and covers several parts of the most heavily regulated industries in the US.  (Health, Tax Law and Finance).
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Offline Nam

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2013, 03:57:48 PM »
The stupid wish to remain ignorant and believe the lies told by those in their own particular group, and the rest--i don't know...I mean, there are legitimate things wrong with the program but the right doesn't focus on those things (especially since some of them were their ideas) and just state the whole thing is wrong.

The thing is: let's say they got rid of it, and actually came up with their own--i bet it look similar, or about exactly the same. The only real difference would be is their name would be on it not Obama's.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Offline MadBunny

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2013, 04:56:14 PM »
They would call it the H.E.A.R.T. Act. ( Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act)

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2010/february/23/gop-1993-health-reform-bill.aspx


The reason they call the PPACA 'Obamacare' is because that name tests poorly in red states.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 04:58:56 PM by MadBunny »
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Offline shnozzola

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2013, 05:37:34 PM »
You mean not understand Obamacare like this  (From Jimmy Kimmel):

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Offline Nam

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2013, 07:32:10 PM »
They would call it the H.E.A.R.T. Act. ( Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act)

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2010/february/23/gop-1993-health-reform-bill.aspx


The reason they call the PPACA 'Obamacare' is because that name tests poorly in red states.


They'd call it that 20 years ago, today they'd call out NOC[1].

;)

-Nam
 1. Not Obamacare
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Offline Bereft_of_Faith

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2013, 12:35:50 AM »
You mean not understand Obamacare like this  (From Jimmy Kimmel):

I just LOVE how cock-sure most of the respondents were in their uninformed answers.  Morons.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2013, 06:22:39 AM »
You know something?  Obamacare sucks.  It does. 

It beats the previous system.  But it still sucks. 

Let's talk about WHY it sucks. 

It sucks because it puts the burden on the individual wage-earning taxpayer to fund health insurance.  Twice.  Once through their taxes, and then again via out of pocket expenses. 

Let's not forget why we came up with this great compromise, instead of implementing a single payer system, which is what a huge percentage of governments in world provide.  The reason is that the health care industry is BIG BUSINESS.  The vast majority of health care providers are publically traded industries, with BIG BIG BIG CEO salaries.

Researchers analyzed pay and benefits for 342 CEOs of corporations in the Standard & Poor’s 500 index.

They found that health care CEOs received an average compensation of $10.5 million last year. That’s 40 percent more than the average for all S&P 500 companies — 77 percent higher than chief executives at financial services companies.
  http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/columns/the-platform/health-insurance-ceo-paid-million-feel-better/article_7c8df848-aca4-11df-9b5b-0017a4a78c22.html

And these CEO's have, for decades, invested billions of dollars in lobbyists whose sole goal is to ensure the health of the industry over the health of individuals in this nation. 

Single payer was off the table.  And these teaparty lunatics have backed the rights of these corporations to make these huge profits.

The US government spends huge amounts of taxpayer money to support these publically traded corporations, and to pay the salaries of these CEO's and lobbyists.  How insane is that?

This huge and powerful industry is not going to let us take away their profits.  And so rather than letting the government take over responsibility for funding healthcare, we came up with this compromise. 

And now, the teaparty wants us to compromise more? 

F-that. 

The only acceptable starting point for any negotiation is single payer. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care

Period.   

Offline Nick

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2013, 08:03:24 AM »
It may suck but it was the only thing that eventually made it thru congress.  Remember how all that went?  In time the bugs will be worked out.  There is a kid in my community who has a lot of medical problems and of course the family did not have insurance.  Maybe now he can be given the care he needs for some kind of quality of life.
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Offline shnozzola

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2013, 08:30:43 AM »
I agree (single payer made the most sense), but the same type of Tea Party/Sarah Palin non mentality that stopped single payer is what's at play everywhere.  Here's another well informed opinion of the ACA from James Surowiecki (I don't know why people can't read, study, look at both sides, learn, etc.)

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2013/10/14/131014ta_talk_surowiecki

Quote
Orrin Hatch has said that Obamacare will be “devastating to small business.” Ted Cruz argues that it is already “the No. 1 job killer.” And the vice-president of the National Federation of Independent Businesses called it simply “terrible.” So it comes as some surprise to learn that Obamacare may well be the best thing Washington has done for American small business in decades.

Quote
But the overwhelming majority of American businesses—ninety-six per cent—have fewer than fifty employees. The employer mandate doesn’t touch them. And more than ninety per cent of the companies above that threshold already offer health insurance. Only three per cent are in the zone (between forty and seventy-five employees) where the threshold will be an issue. Even if these firms get more cautious about hiring—and there’s little evidence that they will—the impact on the economy would be small.
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2013, 09:15:40 AM »
I agree with Nick and shnozzola.  But Obamacare is a compromise which placates those who benefit from government subsidies of the FOR PROFIT health care industries.

There are no more compromises to be made on behalf of these for-profit industries.  Period. 

If our elected officials want to open negotiations again, (after decades of attempts at creating health care reform) then the only acceptable starting point is single payer. 

The people who are not happy with the current system, the teaparty following sheep who are not happy with the current system, don't even understand the source of what they are unhappy about. 

They are unhappy about their out-of-pocket expenses.    And they only way to eliminate out of pocket expenses is to go for single payer - at the expense of these CEO's and their 7 figure government subsidized salaries.  I would rather have my tax dollars go to subsidize the Walmart cashier, rather than the CEO's. 

I have exceptional health insurance through my employer.

But I live less than a mile from the city's busiest public hospital, where low income families have traditionally used the emergency room as their family doctor.  Folks with chronic diseases that they couldn't afford to treat, such as asthma, diabetes, even mental health issues, sat in the emergency room with kids who have ear infections and vomiting folks with stomach viruses and guys who were on the losing side of a bar fight. Now, most of those folks with chronic illnesses will be able to receive ongoing treatment, and not wait for a crisis severe enough to warrant an emergency room visit.  And the folks with ear infections and stomach viruses will have primary care physicians.  And folks with mental health issues will be able to see specialists and take necessary medication.  And the emergency room will be able to focus on car crash victims and kids who managed to get the childproof cap off of their delicious infant Tylenol, and downed half a bottle. 

Because that is what emergency rooms are supposed to do. 

But a lot of immigrant families will find themselves in a situation in which some members of the family are insured, and some are not.  And those without insurance will find themselves sitting in the emergency room when they have a REALLY BAD asthma attack, rather than treating their asthma on an ongoing basis.  And the kids who are in school will have their vaccines, but the parents won't.  And all those kids who legalized under deferred action for childhood arrivals will be ineligible to buy health insurance. 

It is not a good system.  It is better than the system we had before.  But it is not a good system. 

Offline Nam

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Re: Obamacare - or the PPACA.
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2013, 09:55:34 AM »
Wait for the Republican party to destroy themselves (which they're doing a good job of right now) on a national level, then take the presidency in 2016, and I am sure Dems will introduce such a thing when they have full control.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.