With all due respect median, the point isn't about "proving" an external world exists. The point is that it makes no sense to acknowledge an external world from a purely materialistic viewpoint.
And it makes no sense from your point of view either. Your basis for belief in the "immaterial" is rooted in the material. If you are a brain in a jar, the concept of god is just as much a part of the experiment as science, the earth or me. No matter what, you have no way to know anything.
Idealism doesn't have this problem because everything exists in God's mind. An external world only makes sense with Idealism, not materialism.
malarkey. unless you are god, doing the dreaming, you have no way of knowing god's mind even exists.
Idealism: We can empirically deduce
that doesn't even make sense. you deduce via logic. Empiricism is evidence based. you go look and verify through data. But if we are just brains in jars, or dreams by a god, then there is no evidence for us to observe.
So since everything is known through a mind, it makes sense to posit an eternal infinite mind that perceives all things.
It doesn't that is a gigantic leap and begs the quesiton.
That is a tu quoque logical fallacy.
In fact, lots of atheists use this fallacy quite often.
I doubt they do it any more than any one else. But if they do it is because xians are self righteous hypocrites who piss all over jesus H who told them to not be judgmental. Maybe if you guys weren't such jerks about casting the first stone, we would not have to point out what a bunch of hypocrites you are.
That said, I don't think it is about that so much as it is a question of what good xianity is for practical ethics and morality. If you it does not keep you guys in line, well, what makes you so special?
So because some crackpot draws a diagram and claims it's the Biblical diagram, you guys just swallow it whole?
All the writings in the Bible can be attributed to crackpots from a non-theists point of view. You just pick and choose which crackpot stories you believe and which to dismiss.[/quote]
You cannot seriously be arguing the ancient hebrews were not geocentrists? If so, you are mistaken:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocentric_model#Orthodox_Judaism
You seem to pick and choose the modern ideas you accept. Creationism is totally reasonable, but geocentrism is for crackpots. Riiiight.
Guess what, guys? "Rational thought" doesn't work on things you personally witnessed with your own eyeballs.
Oh really? From what you've said, you did not actually witness anything. You heard from someone else the dog was ill. Then you heard from someone else it was not. what exactly did you witness, young man?
How can you prove God is not there? It's not as easy as Santa.
oh really? How do you prove Santa is not there?