Author Topic: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?  (Read 21718 times)

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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1392 on: October 28, 2013, 06:20:09 PM »
Seriously, Skeptic, do you really think that any mastermind with two brain cells to rub together would propagate his Secret Plan in the mass media

yeah...that's kinda the whole point. It gets people like you to dismiss it as a joke because you think they wouldn't do something so obvious like that. It's called "hiding in plain sight."

Look, I know you guys don't believe it, but it is very real to me. I have personally felt demonic forces.

skeptic, (and I am having a hard time calling you that) is there any kind of supernatural being or magical force you do not believe in? If you do not believe in something that other people think exists, how can you tell you are right? So far, you have professed belief in several different "gods" and/or many different "demons". Have you actually seem them with your own eyes? Or do you detect them in some other fashion?

Do you also believe in the real physical existence of any of these: ghosts, spirits, fairies, witches, elves, vampires, werewolves, mermaids or zombies? Why or why not?

Do you believe in the existence of psychic phenomena like ESP, mediums who communicate with the dead, telepathy (mental communication between people) or telekinesis (moving objects with the mind)? Why or why not?

Do you think tarot cards or astrology are real ways to figure out the world? Do you think there are people who can predict the future?

You have cited things on tv and the internet as evidence of demons, as if people can't make sh!t up about demons and put it online.  I honestly want to know how you distinguish what actually exists from what people imagine or lie about.

You really do seem to be skeptical of being skeptical. :?


I believe in all those things. I have seen some stuff in my life...I kid you not...I have seen some stuff.

I have witnessed plates lift off the ground and smash into a wall.

I've witnessed "Get out" appear in blood on the wall at my friend's house and disappear within 30 seconds.

I have witnessed a seance and heard the voices. They are not human spirits. They are demons pretending to be human spirits.

I have witnessed many of these things.

The main reason I converted was because my friend's dog was very very sick with cancer and they were going to put him to sleep the next day to end his suffering. I prayed, "Lord if you exist and save this dog, I will dedicate my life to you." The next day my friend said the doctors couldn't find the cancer and they showed him both x-rays taken with the cancer and without the cancer and the doctors were astonished. All they said was, "No idea what happened but it's gone." This dog went from lying like a slug on the carpet to jumping and playing fetch the next day.

This might not be proof to you guys because you haven't seen it with your own eyes but my own eyes have witnessed a myriad of things to the point where I just can't be an atheist anymore.

It has been 100% proven to me.

That sounds interesting. Why did you not say this before? How can someone on this site contact the doctors to talk about the X-rays?
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1393 on: October 28, 2013, 06:23:41 PM »
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind.html -- yeah, right. Empirical evidence that he agrees to.

-Nam

You shouldn't get your information from a biased source.
Why would talkorigins speak good words about Hovind?

Quote
A few days after the telephone conversation, Kevin drafted a contract and presented it on the web site of talk.origins, in it he specified the composition of a panel of neutral judges. Kevin required that the judges affirm that they are each theists - believers in God - but otherwise neutral scientists, and that they not be young earth creationists. Kevin, himself an agnostic, reasoned that any agnostics or atheists on the committee might be unfair to Hovind and that any creationists would be unfair to him.  A notary public would communicate with the otherwise anonymous judges and confirm to Kevin that the judges had sworn to the terms for neutrality. At this point, Kevin e-mailed the contract to Hovind and sent him another signed copy by mail. These terms were unacceptable to Hovind. Hovind insisted that he pick the judges himself without any confirmation of their neutrality.
http://chem.tufts.edu/science/Stear-NoAiG/no-AiG/kent_hovind's_phony_challenge.htm

-Nam

The thing is that there's testimony from people who say they showed Randi their paranormal powers, and Randi threw a fit and just kicked them out.

If a guy's whole job depends on debunking the paranormal, why would he give up his source of income by admitting the paranormal exists?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1394 on: October 28, 2013, 06:25:53 PM »
That sounds interesting. Why did you not say this before? How can someone on this site contact the doctors to talk about the X-rays?

This happened in 2005. I don't know their names. I never asked. The dog jumping around again was proof enough for me even without seeing the x-rays. I was there to say goodbye to the dog the day before they were gonna put him down. Dog was a slug.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1395 on: October 28, 2013, 06:29:10 PM »
That sounds interesting. Why did you not say this before? How can someone on this site contact the doctors to talk about the X-rays?

This happened in 2005. I don't know their names. I never asked. The dog jumping around again was proof enough for me even without seeing the x-rays. I was there to say goodbye to the dog the day before they were gonna put him down. Dog was a slug.

This, folks, is what we call: making shit up.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1396 on: October 28, 2013, 06:30:22 PM »
That sounds interesting. Why did you not say this before? How can someone on this site contact the doctors to talk about the X-rays?

This happened in 2005. I don't know their names. I never asked. The dog jumping around again was proof enough for me even without seeing the x-rays. I was there to say goodbye to the dog the day before they were gonna put him down. Dog was a slug.

That is a pity. I am always open to first hand evidence. You know I had a similar experience with a horse but it was explainable in ordinary terms.

Is there any other event you have experienced which might be verified?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 06:47:32 PM by Foxy Freedom »
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Offline Zankuu

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1397 on: October 28, 2013, 06:48:35 PM »
That is a pity. I am always open to first hand evidence. You know I had a similar experience with a horse but it was explainable in ordinary terms.
Funny how his mind works though, isn't it? He prays to a supernatural being that is obsessed with blood to heal an animal, the being answered his prayer, and now he will worship this being for the rest of his life. But if anyone else prays to a different supernatural being, and that being answers their prayers, then it's an evil demon which may or may not be as blood crazed as his god. 100% polemic way of thinking.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline Deus ex Machina

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1398 on: October 28, 2013, 06:52:03 PM »
Kent Hovind used to have a 250,000 dollar challenge to anyone who can prove evolution. The money was never claimed either.

Of course, everyone knows Kent Hovind was an honest, straight-up guy. Especially the IRS.
No day in which you learn something is wasted.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1399 on: October 28, 2013, 07:01:30 PM »
What's wrong with Morgan Freeman?

-Nam

I wrote the first things that came to mind....

Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1400 on: October 28, 2013, 07:48:06 PM »
My sister always used to say she saw ghosts and demons in the farmhouse when we were children. She made herself very frightened on one occasion and was trembling from fear. I told her I wanted to see these ghosts and demons but they were much too shy! My sister said the trapped spirits were there because they wanted my protection from the demons who were afraid of me, which conveniently meant that I had to walk with her at night to keep the demons away and help lock up her animals. Eventually I said I would chase the demons away, so that she could look after her own animals. After that she could not use the story any more.
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1401 on: October 28, 2013, 07:49:17 PM »
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind.html -- yeah, right. Empirical evidence that he agrees to.

-Nam

 Dammit I thought for sure it was Kirk Cameron videos he was getting his Ideas from
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1402 on: October 28, 2013, 07:51:42 PM »
nogodsforme,

He believes in everything but, except for Biblegod , they are all demon possessed.

How he can live in a world filled with demons at every turn...I don't know.

-Nam

Because I have nothing to fear. The demons don't touch people who are dedicated to the Lord. It's a pointless effort.
I have not laughed this hard in a long time 8)
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1403 on: October 28, 2013, 08:06:58 PM »
That sounds interesting. Why did you not say this before? How can someone on this site contact the doctors to talk about the X-rays?

This happened in 2005. I don't know their names. I never asked. The dog jumping around again was proof enough for me even without seeing the x-rays. I was there to say goodbye to the dog the day before they were gonna put him down. Dog was a slug.
So many better things you could have prayed for. The end of starvation,war,genocide. But then again God answering your selfish prayer to save a Dog is petty of him(God),when he could also do so much more.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1404 on: October 28, 2013, 08:11:58 PM »
He evaded my questions too.

Yup, Christians do that. They claim truth, and that they have answers. Ask and ye shall recieve, right?

Yet, when the hard questions come, they realized that God lied to them and didn't answer thier prayer: To put HIS words in thier mouths[1].

Yet he fails them, but they keep swinging and making up crap. After all, as long as someone acts like they know what they're talking about... as long as they say it enough times... surely it must be true, and someone must believe it.

The sky is a solid dome holding up an ocean. This is why the sky is blue and where the rains come from. Proof: Gen 1. Some bronze-age guy said so, so it must be true!

I think it's funny that a certain website[2]: makes videos showing the Roman Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, acknowledges that the RCC is responsible for compiling the Bible, yet take the bible as the word of the omni-max god. As other people pointed out about Skeptic's belief that the RCC is run by a 'demon,' yet he too believes the Bible is the word of God, despite the fact the RCC made it. He won't comment on it.

I showed him how Jesus himself states that he is the: Morning Star, the Lightbringer, 2 symbols associated with Lucifer... yet no comment about them either.

Truth is, Skeptical, is cherry picking the ones that he's already been pre-primed to contest or only picking out the "insults," and ignoring the rest while claiming that no one wants to discuss. Of course, we all know this[3]. Just putting it out there once again so Skep can know that we're onto his little game. The same game a lot of Christians play. He ignored it the other 20 times, he may ignore this time too, but just because I came back yesterday, doesn't mean that's when I was born.
 1. rather in this case... thier hands.
 2. http://www.worldslastchance.com/
 3. including Skep

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1405 on: October 28, 2013, 08:13:52 PM »
Because I have nothing to fear. The demons don't touch people who are dedicated to the Lord. It's a pointless effort.

So, you never get sick?

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1406 on: October 28, 2013, 08:25:48 PM »
Because I have nothing to fear. The demons don't touch people who are dedicated to the Lord. It's a pointless effort.

So, you never get sick?
We know what makes us sick,and it's not demons....unless of course demons are microscopic and disguised as virus and bacteria
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1407 on: October 28, 2013, 08:38:58 PM »
Well, you know... the guy will believe anything: selling one's soul to the devil, every other church besides his is from a "powerful demon," the Illuminati, the Bible. We all know that an All-Knowing god, via the RCC made Bible, said that Demons caused illness, not microbes or viruses. The same infallible book that states that the Earth is flat.

Since String thought that, It was just a hypothesis that Skeptical believed it too. Hence my signature.

I once wanted to sell my soul to the Devil, so I can be rich. When the devil didn't give me riches, I had a feeling that it was because he wasn't real. I didn't have to make excuses about it not being "part of his will" or some other crap.

Edit: But, if he is real, I'm still willing to make a deal. ;)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 08:42:39 PM by Ivellios »

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1408 on: October 28, 2013, 08:41:13 PM »

I'm not an atheist towards those gods. They are real. They are just demons in disguise. Plenty of people around the world have access to the underworld with their incantations. These powers are very real, but you don't believe it. If this stuff was just a big lie, nobody would believe it. There's definitely something to it.

To write it off as a joke and billions of people hallucinating is crazy. You are saying billions of people are psycho nutbags and only a tiny tiny minority (atheists) can see through it all. That sounds like a cult....

Actually no, you are quite wrong about what I'm saying. What I'm saying (first) is that people (like you) are gullible! And history repeatedly shows how gullible people are. Have you been living under a rock? Open your eyes dude. People regularly (routinely!) believe nonsense for lots of BAD reasons. Second, I never said only atheists can see the nonsense. People regularly (routinely here too) can spot the bullshit in another religion (or a lying thief, a fake 'healer', a con-artist) but compartmentalize it when it comes to THEIR beliefs! And that is what you are doing (spotting nonsense only when it applies to someone else). And that is hypocrisy. You attempt to use irrational arguments to justify your beliefs (which is an error) but if someone else attempted those same types of irrational arguments with you, you would reject them. Hypocrisy: plain and simple. I know you don't want to hear that, but that is what is happening - and if you were intellectually honest you would have to admit it.

Now, you are in fact atheist about plenty of gods. Do you not think that men have made up false "gods" that actually do not exist (but are pure fiction from the mind of men)? Come on dude, be honest; have people made up things in their minds that are not real but imaginary?





« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 08:57:50 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1409 on: October 28, 2013, 08:47:56 PM »

The thing is that there's testimony from people who say they showed Randi their paranormal powers, and Randi threw a fit and just kicked them out.

If a guy's whole job depends on debunking the paranormal, why would he give up his source of income by admitting the paranormal exists?

If you don't have the actual information, and you weren't there, then you can't speak about what really happened. So just stop right there. Stop speculating on shit you have no knowledge of. I have researched multiple cases of people trying to meet the James Randi challenge, all of whom failed miserably when test conditions were applied. Search YouTube!!!! There are tons of them (Mr. I believe videos). The testing is done by someone else (not James Randi or his team) and it is not "his living". It is a separate fund. Go meet the challenge, document it thoroughly, and then we will talk. Otherwise, stop trying to push away anything that doesn't fit with your bible assumption. In other words, stop being so closed minded! It just shows how much you don't care about truth but only your presuppositions.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 09:00:37 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1410 on: October 28, 2013, 08:56:41 PM »
Oooookay then. He is either making this up, he is in need of mental health care or he is very, very gullible.

skeptic believes in everything

Hmmmmm.

skeptic, if you don't send me all the money you have, a demon will force you to become a rational atheist. Straight up.  8)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1411 on: October 28, 2013, 09:22:06 PM »

I'm not an atheist towards those gods. They are real. They are just demons in disguise. Plenty of people around the world have access to the underworld with their incantations. These powers are very real, but you don't believe it. If this stuff was just a big lie, nobody would believe it. There's definitely something to it.

To write it off as a joke and billions of people hallucinating is crazy. You are saying billions of people are psycho nutbags and only a tiny tiny minority (atheists) can see through it all. That sounds like a cult....

Actually no, you are quite wrong about what I'm saying. What I'm saying (first) is that people (like you) are gullible! And history repeatedly shows how gullible people are. Have you been living under a rock? Open your eyes dude. People regularly (routinely!) believe nonsense for lots of BAD reasons. Second, I never said only atheists can see the nonsense. People regularly (routinely here too) can spot the bullshit in another religion (or a lying thief, a fake 'healer', a con-artist) but compartmentalize it when it comes to THEIR beliefs! And that is what you are doing (spotting nonsense only when it applies to someone else). And that is hypocrisy. You attempt to use irrational arguments to justify your beliefs (which is an error) but if someone else attempted those same types of irrational arguments with you, you would reject them. Hypocrisy: plain and simple. I know you don't want to hear that, but that is what is happening - and if you were intellectually honest you would have to admit it.

Now, you are in fact atheist about plenty of gods. Do you not think that men have made up false "gods" that actually do not exist (but are pure fiction from the mind of men)? Come on dude, be honest; have people made up things in their minds that are not real but imaginary?
What about the Pantheon of the "gods" Yahweh comes from...are they all "demons"? And the fact that he thinks these "billions of people" can be deceived by demons,without reward(heaven) in believing they are gods. Only a "true Christian" is worthy of a reward.

 Thankfully skeptic fails in the category of being a "true Christian"
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 09:26:25 PM by 12 Monkeys »
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Offline Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1412 on: October 28, 2013, 10:38:26 PM »
nogodsforme,

He believes in everything but, except for Biblegod , they are all demon possessed.

How he can live in a world filled with demons at every turn...I don't know.

-Nam

Because I have nothing to fear. The demons don't touch people who are dedicated to the Lord. It's a pointless effort.
I have not laughed this hard in a long time 8)

Everyone's demon-possessed but him.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1413 on: October 29, 2013, 03:12:54 AM »
Is Skeptic really still here.
Only one thing left to say really-


"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1414 on: October 29, 2013, 03:16:45 AM »
He can't show us evidence since we're demons and therefore too corruptable to see what is actually there in front of us--like being demons.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1415 on: October 29, 2013, 03:24:57 AM »
He can't show us evidence since we're demons and therefore too corruptable to see what is actually there in front of us--like being demons.

-Nam
Ahh of course, all makes sense now.
I knew there had to be a good reason for a complete lack of evidence.
Obvoious really &)
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1416 on: October 29, 2013, 07:22:17 AM »

This happened in 2005. I don't know their names. I never asked. The dog jumping around again was proof enough for me even without seeing the x-rays. I was there to say goodbye to the dog the day before they were gonna put him down. Dog was a slug.

Still, shouldn't be too hard to track down the info.

Are you still in communication with your friend? Is the dog still alive? If not, by the way, how much longer did it last after being cured? Dogs don't live all that long in the major scheme of things to begin with. But, at any rate, your friend should still have the same vet or at least remember who it was.

Then you could provide at least proof of your story. If it still isn't undeniable proof of god, who knows; you might still get someone's attention and change their mind. Wouldn't that be worth the trouble? It is, after all, your stated mission...

Online Graybeard

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1417 on: October 29, 2013, 07:58:25 AM »

The thing is that there's testimony from people who say they showed Randi their paranormal powers, and Randi threw a fit and just kicked them out.

The trouble with these "testimonies" is that the person has seen something, and then assumes a reason why it happened. What then happens is that the investigator then either (a) gives an explanation that the person rejects in favour of his own 'magic' explanation (b) says he does not know the answer, and so the person says "Because you don't know the answer, my magic explanation must be true!" - this is stupidity at its best.

A very intelligent friend of mine described what he believed to be a 'supernatural' event: He was in bed, almost asleep, and a ghostly person sat on his chest and gave him a message.  I listened to him and told him that what he had experienced was Sleep paralysisWiki a medical event that leads to a short mental delusion and that it was very common.

I told him this and he ignored me. He went on to say that he had spoken to a church leader who said that it was a spirit and that the room he was in had probably experienced a dramatic event that had left a memory there.

Now... which seems the more likely? A known and common medical event or "rooms with memories"?

You give no examples of Randi "kicking someone out" - perhaps you could find a youtube video?

RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline screwtape

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1418 on: October 29, 2013, 10:07:01 AM »
skep,

where are you from?  I would guess somewhere like alabama or west virginia. 

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Online median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1419 on: October 29, 2013, 10:38:29 AM »
How much would you lose if you were wrong skep? What would happen if you found out that you have been wrong this whole time (that the bible is not the word of god etc)? What would it cost you socially, emotionally, and/or financially? Would you lose most of your friends, family, co-workers, and/or peers? Like most Christians (unfortunately), you seem to have a vested interested in protecting this assumption investment of yours (out of fear). Can you see how that leads to confirmation bias?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 10:40:29 AM by median »
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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #1420 on: October 29, 2013, 06:13:09 PM »
Skep,

I see that you had the evidence which satisfied your criteria to believe in the supernatural from seeing the dog recover.

I would also like similar evidence which satisfies my criteria. It is not a matter of choice, either to believe or not to believe, it is a matter of evidence as it was for you. Since you were an atheist at the time it was also not a matter of faith that the dog recovered so I am not in a different position.

The kinds of questions I would consider are these. Could the event be explained in an ordinary way? When I have eliminated that I would ask myself what is the supernatural source? I know I exist so I would test first if I caused it in some way. If that was not true I might consider another entity. How would I know that the being I prayed to was actually the one who did the healing? Maybe it was another being who was only pretending to be the one I prayed to? Let's say that I did succeed in identifying the supernatural being. My next question would be, is this being worthy to be on my side? If the being was less moral than I am, I would not want to play its game, however powerful it was, or whether it created me or not. That would be irrelevant to me if the being was not a moral one. So you see the issue is complex and many factors have to be considered, but the first step is seeing the evidence. Nothing further is possible without the evidence, just as you also needed the evidence.

« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 06:14:56 PM by Foxy Freedom »
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