Author Topic: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?  (Read 31060 times)

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Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #754 on: October 22, 2013, 08:41:31 PM »

so sacrifice=loss and nothing else, correct? If not loss is incurred then there was no sacrifice. You know sacrifice is a noun as well, right? To offer something up. Anyway... God didn't need to sacrifice send his son to us, but he said he would, so the scripture had to be fulfilled. He is loving, but he is jealous, demanding, etc. You sort of have to do things his way or the highway, at least in the OT. That is why I said some posts ago that I thought he had a better understanding of the human condition after Christ walked the earth.

You are talking about the noun "sacrifice" but that doesn't apply here because we're talking about an action (v.) that God supposedly did 'for us' (aka - the verb which means to lose something). Your last statement makes absolutely no sense. Is God all-knowing? If so, he couldn't get "a better understanding" of anything because he already knows everything! Do you see the problem with your theology? It is irrational. Is God for you just a big mafia boss, who can violate his own rules anytime? If so, how on earth do you evaluate whether or not this alleged 'thing' is good? By what standard are you using to determine whether or not this 'God' is actually "good"?

Then you are talking about the wrong thing, probably just for the sake of talking about it.  &)   My theology isn't irrational. I think my statement makes perfect sense for how I see God. To me, being all knowing and understanding doesn't include being able to predict the future events of every illogical human 100% of the time. Why would we have free will if that is the case? I think God is logical, all knowing, all powerful, yada yada yada. Why would he make Adam and Eve if he knew they were going to sin? Doesn't make sense to me. So...what does make sense to me is that he made Adam and Eve, he made them with all these emotions and such and probably hoped they were going to make the right decisions, but they didn't. He was an angry God a lot in the OT and I attribute that to his logical, perfect sense not expecting the illogical human condition. After Christ was human and went thru all the emotional stuff, he had a better understanding.

What rules did God break? How do I determine if he is good? Doesn't matter what I think. He is God and I worship him. He created me, so I give my life to him. Why would I think He is not good?

Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #755 on: October 22, 2013, 08:44:44 PM »
Prehaj Jesus also told his early followers they would not taste death before his return,why did God fail in this promise,but not the promise to sacrifice?

In Matthew, Luke? Are you taking that to mean that he was saying that the second coming would happen before some of their lifetimes were up? Just trying to clarify what you are asking. And just for the record, God does what he says he is going to do.


TRANSLATION: "I will assume this bible is the Word of God no matter what and if someone finds a problem, error, or contradiction I will find answer."


TEXTBOOK CONFIRMATION BIAS

Not about that at all. How many verses have I thrown back during the discussion to counter an argument? Not too many, in fact probably none. I simply want to know what verse, chapter, etc because you can't just take a verse and say "ah ha" without looking at the chapter and the context. Ya know...like women not speaking in church.  &)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #756 on: October 22, 2013, 08:49:33 PM »
Prehaj

 old rules of the Bible like not cutting your hair,not getting tattoo'd,marrying your rapist,marrying your husband brother if you are a widow. None of these rules are relevant to today's Christian.

 There are many more examples of rules God made that Christians find irrelevant to them today,because SPAG says God will be OK with the descisions they make

Well, not cutting hair is relevant in Mennonite and Amish, and probably a few others that I am not aware of. Tattoos are frowned up really. A lot of what is written has to be taken in the context of the time. At that time some marriages were alliance, pacts between differing powerful families. A widow marrying her brother in law was likely to keep that alliance in tact. No, that is not relevant in today's society.

However, those things aren't really what is important. It is more important to be as Christ like as you can, even if you do get a tattoo or have a one night stand. You ask for forgiveness, and you go on living, hopefully better than before. There are so many sins and we can't keep track of them all. We just have to be humble, be repentant and live with Christ.
Just because you view rules as irrelevant in today's society,does not mean you can ignore them. A rule is a rule is a rule,the only way a rule becomes irrelevant is if the rule is ignored by the masses and then gets discarded as a rule to be followed.
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Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #757 on: October 22, 2013, 08:51:06 PM »

Then you are talking about the wrong thing, probably just for the sake of talking about it.  &)   My theology isn't irrational. I think my statement makes perfect sense for how I see God. To me, being all knowing and understanding doesn't include being able to predict the future events of every illogical human 100% of the time. Why would we have free will if that is the case? I think God is logical, all knowing, all powerful, yada yada yada. Why would he make Adam and Eve if he knew they were going to sin? Doesn't make sense to me. So...what does make sense to me is that he made Adam and Eve, he made them with all these emotions and such and probably hoped they were going to make the right decisions, but they didn't. He was an angry God a lot in the OT and I attribute that to his logical, perfect sense not expecting the illogical human condition. After Christ was human and went thru all the emotional stuff, he had a better understanding.

What rules did God break? How do I determine if he is good? Doesn't matter what I think. He is God and I worship him. He created me, so I give my life to him. Why would I think He is not good?


1. You are the one claiming to believe in this God thing. So the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it. If you have no standard for judging if God is good, then you can't know if he is. You are, again, ASSUMING! But you can't assume your position. You need to demonstrate it.


2. You clearly have no idea what being rational means. So you should start there. Educate yourself on the logical fallacies and how they apply to your claims.

START HERE MAYBE: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4073


3. Now, do words mean what they say? "All-knowing" means just that and it includes the ability to see the future. If you are talking about something else then you seem to be admitting that God is not all-knowing (doesn't see the end from the beginning). Second, who said we have "freewill" in the sense you are using the term? Who said there was an "Adam and Eve"? Again, these are things you are ASSUMING but clearly have not thought critically about. Read your bible more. It clearly spells out that you should be using your brain (that yes, it does matter what and how you think). 1 Peter 3:15
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #758 on: October 22, 2013, 08:52:04 PM »
So woman speaking in church was acceptable in the verse,chapter and not taken out of context. Did they state the rule for it to be ignored at a later date?
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Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #759 on: October 22, 2013, 08:53:23 PM »
It is more important to be as Christ like as you can, even if you do get a tattoo or have a one night stand. You ask for forgiveness, and you go on living, hopefully better than before. There are so many sins and we can't keep track of them all. We just have to be humble, be repentant and live with Christ.

No, we don't have to do those things (in the same way as we don't have to submit to Islam or any other false and irrational religion). You have ASSUMED your bible is 'the Word of God' and you have ASSUMED your interpretation of it. That is your main problem. Until you can demonstrate why anyone should take that book seriously there isn't any reason to take your arguments seriously because they are just claims (hear-say like any other faith).

your point is what? yes, I assume, rightly so imo, that the bible is the word God. That's the thing, I don't have to demonstrate anything to anyone. If you want to take the book seriously, that is your choice. If you get touched by the Holy Spirit you will begin to understand life according to Christ. Until then we are on different sides of the fence I suppose, but that is what makes the world interesting. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything because it won't happen. I will not convince you and you will not convince me, but that isn't the point of conversation.  I cannot give you peer reviewed research on the existence of God, so you'll just have to accept that faith is all there is to my words if you want to continue discussion. I mean, it's called....faith for a reason.

Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #760 on: October 22, 2013, 08:55:10 PM »

Not about that at all. How many verses have I thrown back during the discussion to counter an argument? Not too many, in fact probably none. I simply want to know what verse, chapter, etc because you can't just take a verse and say "ah ha" without looking at the chapter and the context. Ya know...like women not speaking in church.  &)


I know the context. It's clear that you don't. But notice how every time anyone points out a clear contradiction in that book you feel the immediate to pull the "Context!" card. Sorry, the context goes against your beliefs this time. Matthew 16 is a clear false prophesy and had you not ASSUMED the bible was 'perfect' and 'the Word of God' you would be able to see that. But for some bad reason you find it OK to practice confirmation bias when it suits you. That is intellectual hypocrisy. You have a double standard there.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #761 on: October 22, 2013, 08:56:59 PM »
Prehaj

 old rules of the Bible like not cutting your hair,not getting tattoo'd,marrying your rapist,marrying your husband brother if you are a widow. None of these rules are relevant to today's Christian.

 There are many more examples of rules God made that Christians find irrelevant to them today,because SPAG says God will be OK with the descisions they make

Well, not cutting hair is relevant in Mennonite and Amish, and probably a few others that I am not aware of. Tattoos are frowned up really. A lot of what is written has to be taken in the context of the time. At that time some marriages were alliance, pacts between differing powerful families. A widow marrying her brother in law was likely to keep that alliance in tact. No, that is not relevant in today's society.

However, those things aren't really what is important. It is more important to be as Christ like as you can, even if you do get a tattoo or have a one night stand. You ask for forgiveness, and you go on living, hopefully better than before. There are so many sins and we can't keep track of them all. We just have to be humble, be repentant and live with Christ.


Just because you view rules as irrelevant in today's society,does not mean you can ignore them. A rule is a rule is a rule,the only way a rule becomes irrelevant is if the rule is ignored by the masses and then gets discarded as a rule to be followed.

Well, actually even if the rule was ignored by the masses, it would still be a rule...according to God so that doesn't matter. The point is, we will never follow all of his laws successfully. We live therefore we sin. We are not perfect and will break his laws, but we try our best and keep improving along the way, hopefully. Again, there are Kingdom Principles that go across culture and society. Those are much more important than following a little rule in a verse somewhere. What do you care if I follow the rules of a spaghetti monster anyway?


Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #762 on: October 22, 2013, 08:59:01 PM »
your point is what? yes, I assume, rightly so imo, that the bible is the word God. That's the thing, I don't have to demonstrate anything to anyone. If you want to take the book seriously, that is your choice. If you get touched by the Holy Spirit you will begin to understand life according to Christ. Until then we are on different sides of the fence I suppose, but that is what makes the world interesting. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything because it won't happen. I will not convince you and you will not convince me, but that isn't the point of conversation.  I cannot give you peer reviewed research on the existence of God, so you'll just have to accept that faith is all there is to my words if you want to continue discussion. I mean, it's called....faith for a reason.

Faith is not a reliable pathway to truth. It cannot help us separate fact from fiction b/c anyone can just have faith in anything. But thank you for admitting you have assumed your position on the bible. But "assuming rightly" makes no sense unless you actually have good reasons (i.e. - reasons that are not irrational). So instead of actually doing some homework and/or investigating you found it "A-OK" to just believe. Do you practice this same kind of uncritical intellectual laziness with everything else in your life (with every other claim to the supernatural you hear)? You don't, do you? That is called hypocrisy. You claim to be logical but then you run from it. Why?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 09:01:55 PM by median »
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Offline Benny

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #763 on: October 22, 2013, 08:59:25 PM »
Hi Benny. I am very sorry you feel that way.

Well, that's a good start, at least.  You should follow that up with a real apology. i.e."I'm sorry I've belittled gay people," or "I'm sorry I'm encouraging gays to be converted, which every major psychological organization in the world finds harmful in all circumstances."

In our view, homosexuality is bizarre because it's not a way to create children. God wants us to have children that can go to Heaven.

What if an old man and woman want to get married?  What if they're both good Christians that go to church every Sunday and always attend Christmas mass and Easter mass and Ash Wednesday and all the other things?  Will you deny them rights because they can't have children?  What about a couple with one or both partner(s) being sterile, but still just as faithful Christians as the elderly couple?  Would you deny them rights?

Just because you can find other species that engage in homosexuality doesn't mean it's OK.


I completely agree with this, but it does nothing to refute my point that you're being ignorant.

What do you think, atheists? It's found in nature, right guys?

Can we not be sarcastic to people?  If you want to say something, say it.  Don't dance around it with mean-spirited irony.  Just go out and say it.  I'd rather be told to fuck off than to be treated like that.  (That may be just me, though.)

edit: formatting and clarification
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 09:05:00 PM by Benny »
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Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #764 on: October 22, 2013, 09:09:41 PM »

Then you are talking about the wrong thing, probably just for the sake of talking about it.  &)   My theology isn't irrational. I think my statement makes perfect sense for how I see God. To me, being all knowing and understanding doesn't include being able to predict the future events of every illogical human 100% of the time. Why would we have free will if that is the case? I think God is logical, all knowing, all powerful, yada yada yada. Why would he make Adam and Eve if he knew they were going to sin? Doesn't make sense to me. So...what does make sense to me is that he made Adam and Eve, he made them with all these emotions and such and probably hoped they were going to make the right decisions, but they didn't. He was an angry God a lot in the OT and I attribute that to his logical, perfect sense not expecting the illogical human condition. After Christ was human and went thru all the emotional stuff, he had a better understanding.

What rules did God break? How do I determine if he is good? Doesn't matter what I think. He is God and I worship him. He created me, so I give my life to him. Why would I think He is not good?


1. You are the one claiming to believe in this God thing. So the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it. If you have no standard for judging if God is good, then you can't know if he is. You are, again, ASSUMING! But you can't assume your position. You need to demonstrate it.

2. You clearly have no idea what being rational means. So you should start there. Educate yourself on the logical fallacies and how they apply to your claims.

START HERE MAYBE: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4073


3. Now, do words mean what they say? "All-knowing" means just that and it includes the ability to see the future. If you are talking about something else then you seem to be admitting that God is not all-knowing (doesn't see the end from the beginning). Second, who said we have "freewill" in the sense you are using the term? Who said there was an "Adam and Eve"? Again, these are things you are ASSUMING but clearly have not thought critically about. Read your bible more. It clearly spells out that you should be using your brain (that yes, it does matter what and how you think). 1 Peter 3:15

1. proof to who? What proof would satisfy you that God is good. What is good? Relative to what base?  I think creating babies is pretty good, is it not? He does that ya know. He gave us this nice planet to walk around on, that is pretty good. He's answered my prayers more than once...that was pretty neat imo.  I'm not sure what you are looking for. What will satisfy you that a non existent God is good? I don't need proof so why would I look for it for someone that doesn't believe?

2. You want to argue logic, that's not what I am here for. This isn't a debate club, or it is? I want to participate in threads and explore other points of view. Can never have too much perspective. Had a logic class in college...hated it. Just say what you want to say without worrying about strawmen and such. Your problem is you demand proof where you know there is none. So why even bother with the conversation...just to be right? Seems like there should be more to it than that.

3. I think critically enough, but God isn't something to think critically about, at least not in the sense that you are meaning as in proving existence. What do you think that verse you referenced is saying? You don't think we have free will? I know you don't think there was an Adam and Eve so we'll just move along. We differ on what sacrifice means so I'm guessing we will differ on other things, such as "all knowing"

Time for bed...will pick this up tomorrow.

cheers.

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #765 on: October 22, 2013, 09:10:16 PM »

so sacrifice=loss and nothing else, correct? If not loss is incurred then there was no sacrifice. You know sacrifice is a noun as well, right? To offer something up. Anyway... God didn't need to sacrifice send his son to us, but he said he would, so the scripture had to be fulfilled. He is loving, but he is jealous, demanding, etc. You sort of have to do things his way or the highway, at least in the OT. That is why I said some posts ago that I thought he had a better understanding of the human condition after Christ walked the earth.

You are talking about the noun "sacrifice" but that doesn't apply here because we're talking about an action (v.) that God supposedly did 'for us' (aka - the verb which means to lose something). Your last statement makes absolutely no sense. Is God all-knowing? If so, he couldn't get "a better understanding" of anything because he already knows everything! Do you see the problem with your theology? It is irrational. Is God for you just a big mafia boss, who can violate his own rules anytime? If so, how on earth do you evaluate whether or not this alleged 'thing' is good? By what standard are you using to determine whether or not this 'God' is actually "good"?

The Bible.

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #766 on: October 22, 2013, 09:13:09 PM »
Skep,the point YOU IGNORED was that if you disagree with my interpretation of scripture you are WRONG

Your interpretation is not found in Scripture.
I just go by Jesus' words, not man's.
There are 38K different versions of what people think Jesus said or meant to say with his words,I am sure you have friends who disagree with your interpretation of what Jesus meant

There is some truth to this. We all have different messages from God. They are to us, individually, however there are Kingdom Principles that we all follow. The Kingdom Principles extend beyond culture, society and such, that we can all agree on their message wholly. The other disagreements are relatively minor and are just for conversation really.

Bullshit.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #767 on: October 22, 2013, 09:17:33 PM »
Hi Benny. I am very sorry you feel that way.

Well, that's a good start, at least.  You should follow that up with a real apology. i.e."I'm sorry I've belittled gay people," or "I'm sorry I'm encouraging gays to be converted, which every major psychological organization in the world finds harmful in all circumstances."

In our view, homosexuality is bizarre because it's not a way to create children. God wants us to have children that can go to Heaven.

What if an old man and woman want to get married?  What if they're both good Christians that go to church every Sunday and always attend Christmas mass and Easter mass and Ash Wednesday and all the other things?  Will you deny them rights because they can't have children?  What about a couple with one or both partner(s) being sterile, but still just as faithful Christians as the elderly couple?  Would you deny them rights?

Just because you can find other species that engage in homosexuality doesn't mean it's OK.


I completely agree with this, but it does nothing to refute my point that you're being ignorant.

What do you think, atheists? It's found in nature, right guys?

Can we not be sarcastic to people?  If you want to say something, say it.  Don't dance around it with mean-spirited irony.  Just go out and say it.  I'd rather be told to fuck off than to be treated like that.  (That may be just me, though.)

edit: formatting and clarification

To skeptic Catholics are demons.[1]

-Nam
 1. their leaders but really no difference
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #768 on: October 22, 2013, 09:18:04 PM »
You could choose not to cut your hair but because you view God as being ok with the breaking of the rule you view it as OK and dismissed by God,why
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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #769 on: October 22, 2013, 09:24:33 PM »
To skeptic Catholics are demons.

-Nam

I wasn't talking about Catholics specifically.  Did I say something that gave you that impression?  :?

(edit because my brain doesn't work at this hour)
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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #770 on: October 22, 2013, 09:28:22 PM »
To skeptic Catholics are demons.

-Nam

I wasn't talking about Catholics specifically.  Did I say something that gave you that impression?  :?

(edit because my brain doesn't work at this hour)

"Mass" = Catholic word.

"Ash Wednesday" = Catholic thingy

etc.,

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #771 on: October 22, 2013, 09:30:09 PM »

1. proof to who? What proof would satisfy you that God is good. What is good? Relative to what base?  I think creating babies is pretty good, is it not? He does that ya know. He gave us this nice planet to walk around on, that is pretty good. He's answered my prayers more than once...that was pretty neat imo.  I'm not sure what you are looking for. What will satisfy you that a non existent God is good? I don't need proof so why would I look for it for someone that doesn't believe?

2. You want to argue logic, that's not what I am here for. This isn't a debate club, or it is? I want to participate in threads and explore other points of view. Can never have too much perspective. Had a logic class in college...hated it. Just say what you want to say without worrying about strawmen and such. Your problem is you demand proof where you know there is none. So why even bother with the conversation...just to be right? Seems like there should be more to it than that.

3. I think critically enough, but God isn't something to think critically about, at least not in the sense that you are meaning as in proving existence. What do you think that verse you referenced is saying? You don't think we have free will? I know you don't think there was an Adam and Eve so we'll just move along. We differ on what sacrifice means so I'm guessing we will differ on other things, such as "all knowing"

Time for bed...will pick this up tomorrow.

cheers.

1. Interesting, so you believe without any reason to do so? Is that what you are admitting (that you are gullible)?  Babies are not proof of a God and your saying so doesn't make it so. All you are displaying is credulity and gullibility (and your assumptions which aren't reliable). Nature does not tell us how it got here until we investigate and your assumption of your interpretation of "Answered prayer" isn't a good reason either because your interpretation of it is unreliable for determining what is true from what is false. Plenty of studies show that people who pray fair no better than people who don't (which is exactly what we would expect if prayer does nothing - some people would get what they want, some people wouldn't).

It's clear from these statements above that you don't care whether or not your beliefs are actually true.

2. It's not surprising that you hated logic (because it demolishes your irrational arguments for your beliefs in the bible). But logic applies regardless of whether or not you like it to. It applies to all arguments or statements of fact. Your statement above is, yet again, another testimony that you don't care if your beliefs are actually true.

3. No, you don't think critically enough. Otherwise you wouldn't be trying to combat logic and sound reasoning so that you can keep believing irrational beliefs. Your arbitrary definition of "all-knowing" is faulty. You are attempting to redefine the term so you can avoid having to be shown that you are wrong (plain and simple). A being that does not know something is, by definition, NOT ALL KNOWING!

Regardless of how badly you want to make 2+2 equal five. It won't. Logic applies to you whether you like it or not and your avoidance of it only displays your intellectual dishonesty, laziness, and credulity.



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« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 09:32:13 PM by median »
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Offline Benny

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #772 on: October 22, 2013, 09:33:18 PM »
"Mass" = Catholic word.

"Ash Wednesday" = Catholic thingy

I didn't know that Mass is a Catholic word...hmm.

Isn't Ash Wednesday done in some other parts of Christianity too?  Not sure.  I was raised Catholic, as you can tell.
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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #773 on: October 22, 2013, 09:55:37 PM »
"Mass" = Catholic word.

"Ash Wednesday" = Catholic thingy

I didn't know that Mass is a Catholic word...hmm.

Isn't Ash Wednesday done in some other parts of Christianity too?  Not sure.  I was raised Catholic, as you can tell.

I was raised Southern Baptist, and in the Sunday School classes I attended, we were taught Catholicism is the Devil's chew toy. After a whole bunch of nasty things said about we had to pray for the poor Catholic souls who were going to burn in everlasting Hell.

We were also taught their devil practices and rituals so we knew what to stay away from.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Offline Astreja

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #774 on: October 22, 2013, 11:55:52 PM »
Hi Benny. I am very sorry you feel that way. In our view, homosexuality is bizarre because it's not a way to create children. God wants us to have children that can go to Heaven.


Well, why doesn't your god just put them in heaven, then?

And are you currently lobbying against marriage for couples unable to procreate?  In order to be consistent in this argument, you would have to also forbid marriage to post-menopausal or sterile women or to sterile men.

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Did you know the female praying mantis bites the head off the male after sex? Should we make that OK?

I fully support the right of LGBT praying mantises to bite the heads off their same-sex partners.  ;)
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Offline Jag

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #775 on: October 23, 2013, 12:39:23 AM »
"Mass" = Catholic word.

"Ash Wednesday" = Catholic thingy

I didn't know that Mass is a Catholic word...hmm.

Isn't Ash Wednesday done in some other parts of Christianity too?  Not sure.  I was raised Catholic, as you can tell.

Hanging out here with many used-to-be-Protestants has been extremely eye-opening for this "raised Catholic turned happy heretic". The whole Purgatory thing? Apparently that's just us (<--- right wwgha?). And here's a funny one - it occurred to me a couple of weeks ago that it's essentially a REALLY long time-out. We (Catholics) had a lot of escape-clauses that (as I understand it) most of the other sects of christianity don't have.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #776 on: October 23, 2013, 12:49:44 AM »
Well, why doesn't your god just put them in heaven, then?

And are you currently lobbying against marriage for couples unable to procreate?  In order to be consistent in this argument, you would have to also forbid marriage to post-menopausal or sterile women or to sterile men.

Not at all.

Paul said that we should marry to avoid sex outside of marriage. Nothing wrong with sex in a marriage just for fun. So, a sterile man and woman who are married can have all the sex they want.

You have to understand that I don't view a homosexual any worse than I view myself as a sinner. Not my place to judge, just be the messenger...and the message is that God says it's a sin that we should try to avoid doing.

Man & woman is the natural order of things.
A woman receives the man.
An outlet on the wall receives the plug.
Your cell phone receives the charger that you plug into it.
It is nonsensical to use only one without the other. Nothing in this world would work.

This is something I find remarkable: pretty much all technology is comprised of male and female parts. Evidence of design.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #777 on: October 23, 2013, 01:03:19 AM »
Paul suggested it, but it's not a commandment. But he did state after the suggestion that if one was not married and fornicated they may "burn", I.e., go to hell.

But still a suggestion.

Your last mark: you got to be kidding, right?

But I like how it's okay for you to be here, with us, right now even though you're sinning but it's not okay for gays to exist.


-Nam

This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #778 on: October 23, 2013, 01:11:35 AM »
Paul suggested it, but it's not a commandment. But he did state after the suggestion that if one was not married and fornicated they may "burn", I.e., go to hell.

But still a suggestion.

Your last mark: you got to be kidding, right?

But I like how it's okay for you to be here, with us, right now even though you're sinning but it's not okay for gays to exist.


-Nam

Where did I say it's not OK for gays to exist? That would be like me saying that there is no reason for you or me to exist. We are all sinners and all God's children. Just trying to spread the love around.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #779 on: October 23, 2013, 01:16:43 AM »
Quote from: skeptic54768
Not at all.

Paul said that we should marry to avoid sex outside of marriage. Nothing wrong with sex in a marriage just for fun. So, a sterile man and woman who are married can have all the sex they want.

So, marriage is NOT inherently about procreation.  If it was, then you'd have to be against marriage of sterile folks too.

Homosexual sex itself is a separate topic.  They're going to have sex whether or not they're married; it's not like preventing their marriages is going to stop their sex.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #780 on: October 23, 2013, 01:26:16 AM »
So, marriage is NOT inherently about procreation.  If it was, then you'd have to be against marriage of sterile folks too.

Homosexual sex itself is a separate topic.  They're going to have sex whether or not they're married; it's not like preventing their marriages is going to stop their sex.

marriage is between a man and a woman. That's how it's always been. You can't change the meaning of marriage. If we allow man/man or woman/woman marriage, then it's a slippery slope to what else we can allow people to marry.

People will say, "Why can't I marry my dog?" or "Why can't I marry my sister?" Can't single out those people.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #781 on: October 23, 2013, 02:01:45 AM »
Paul suggested it, but it's not a commandment. But he did state after the suggestion that if one was not married and fornicated they may "burn", I.e., go to hell.

But still a suggestion.

Your last mark: you got to be kidding, right?

But I like how it's okay for you to be here, with us, right now even though you're sinning but it's not okay for gays to exist.


-Nam

Where did I say it's not OK for gays to exist? That would be like me saying that there is no reason for you or me to exist. We are all sinners and all God's children. Just trying to spread the love around.

Your love. Not love.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #782 on: October 23, 2013, 02:06:23 AM »
So, marriage is NOT inherently about procreation.  If it was, then you'd have to be against marriage of sterile folks too.

Homosexual sex itself is a separate topic.  They're going to have sex whether or not they're married; it's not like preventing their marriages is going to stop their sex.

marriage is between a man and a woman. That's how it's always been. You can't change the meaning of marriage. If we allow man/man or woman/woman marriage, then it's a slippery slope to what else we can allow people to marry.

People will say, "Why can't I marry my dog?" or "Why can't I marry my sister?" Can't single out those people.

Wrong. Marriage, in many cultures today, and yesterday, have been between a man and a shitload of wives.

Remember, even your Bible states many of your famous characters had more than one wife.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.