Author Topic: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?  (Read 37461 times)

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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #696 on: October 22, 2013, 05:57:27 PM »
Prejah can you give me an explanation as to how a man getting executed for crimes by a regime is a sacrifice? Why exactly he asked his "father" as he was being executed for crimes "Father why have you forsaken me"? If a man named Jesus existed he was executed like many others of the time period were.for being a criminal.

 There is NO sacrifice here,just an execution

Sacrifice. I have seen some of the earlier posts where it seems that if nothing is really lost does that mean he really sacrificed anything? I mean so what if he got whipped around a little, dude knew he was going to rise and be super cool after that so where is the real sacrifice?  Well, I guess I was thinking...if I train for a triathlon, I train for a few hours every day, eat right, give up crappy food and such "sacrifice time and eating junk" if you will, does that mean that after the triathlon is over and I go back to eating twinkies all day-does that mean that I didn't "sacrifice" during that time? I would say I damn sure did sacrifice something, time and enjoyment of food.

But maybe everyone is focusing on him sacrificing something rather than "being the sacrifice". He was the offering, the fulfillment of the prophecy foretold. He was human at the time of his death. He felt emotion, he felt pain, he felt sorrow. Just because that was not the case after his rising does not mean that he did not go thru the suffering of the passion.  With this suffering he cleansed us. We seemed to be a dysfunctional lot that needed some cleansing-Christ dying did that. The last perfect sacrifice. No longer were animals needed to fulfill this-the lamb came and washed away all that was before him by fulfilling God's promise. Not sure that answered your question, so it if didn't, please ask again

As far as his question to his father-he was human, he had doubt. The sin of the world was placed on him and it was enormous. Sin moves us farther away from God...sin turns our path away from the Lord. When the sin of the world was placed upon him in that fragile time, he very well may have felt he was light years away from his Father. Sin does that, it takes us on that path. He had so much sin, was so far removed from the Father because of this sin, he was simply expressing how he felt at the time. Lost, how we feel if we don't have God in our lives.
'father why have you forsaken me" Being whipped and the crucified by a regime that does this to a man named Jesus and others in the same manor is execution NOT sacrifice. Judas had to turn him over,he was convicted of crimes and executed like other common criminal of the time by the regime in power.

 If it was a sacrifice Judas would not have to betray Jesus and he (Jesus ) would have gone and "sacrificed" himself without having to be betrayed. If he "sacrificed" himself,why the famous last words attributed to him "Father why have you forsaken me?"
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Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #697 on: October 22, 2013, 06:00:20 PM »
True Christians love gays. We just want them to change their behavior to what God intended.

Love?  You call that love?  Hahahahaha!

No, Skeptic, you do not love LGBT people.  Our attraction to people of the same gender is as much a part of us as a heterosexual individual's attraction to people of the opposite gender.  Essentially you're bullying us in the name of a hypothetical god, trying to get us to deny a part of ourselves.  It is no less offensive than if someone ordered you to abandon your loved ones, surgically remove your gonads, and live in a cave for the rest of your life.

Interestingly we are talking about this subject in study. What is fascinating about it is why this particular sin is treated so differently from other sins. The arguments are that if homosexuals continue in their relationships then they are unrepentant. However, if some fat ass is sitting next to me and he does not lose weight in a year, that is not considered being unrepentant.  No one had a good answer as to why this sin was different.

So truth is, we would like to get people closer to Christ, on the path to salvation and get into the kingdom. When you sin you get further from God, and that is a sin. However some Christians need to broader their perspective a little and not decide what sins are acceptable and what sins are not-being gay vs being fat. That is dangerous territory, imo. That is also the Holy Spirit's job.

Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #698 on: October 22, 2013, 06:02:55 PM »
If this alleged "sacrifice" was anything real, credible, or authoritative it would be known to all and not controversial. This brings us to the thesis of non-belief. The fact there is non-belief in this 'Jesus sacrifice' thing demonstrates quite clearly that this 'God' thing isn't real. 



Can you make the same accusation of any event which isn't believed universally to have occurred?

NOPE. Because claims to the supernatural/miraculous have no basis in demonstrable fact (especially when you're claiming an omnimax deity and presupposing a particular theology which makes claims that are unfalsifiable - just like astrology). The claims are not reliable, not testable, not verifiable, not falsifiable, and are quite easy to turn into sophistic jello-like goal post shifting (again just like the astrologers). I can see why you would want to lower the standard of evidence so as to usher in your theology but you do so at your own peril, as it would also allow in all sorts of other nonsense quackery.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #699 on: October 22, 2013, 06:03:48 PM »
Prehaj is it your belief that God did the sacrificing,by allowing his "son"to be killed? Jesus apparently had no knowledge he would be sacrificed?

 
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Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #700 on: October 22, 2013, 06:09:34 PM »
Prejah can you give me an explanation as to how a man getting executed for crimes by a regime is a sacrifice? Why exactly he asked his "father" as he was being executed for crimes "Father why have you forsaken me"? If a man named Jesus existed he was executed like many others of the time period were.for being a criminal.

 There is NO sacrifice here,just an execution

Sacrifice. I have seen some of the earlier posts where it seems that if nothing is really lost does that mean he really sacrificed anything? I mean so what if he got whipped around a little, dude knew he was going to rise and be super cool after that so where is the real sacrifice?  Well, I guess I was thinking...if I train for a triathlon, I train for a few hours every day, eat right, give up crappy food and such "sacrifice time and eating junk" if you will, does that mean that after the triathlon is over and I go back to eating twinkies all day-does that mean that I didn't "sacrifice" during that time? I would say I damn sure did sacrifice something, time and enjoyment of food.

But maybe everyone is focusing on him sacrificing something rather than "being the sacrifice". He was the offering, the fulfillment of the prophecy foretold. He was human at the time of his death. He felt emotion, he felt pain, he felt sorrow. Just because that was not the case after his rising does not mean that he did not go thru the suffering of the passion.  With this suffering he cleansed us. We seemed to be a dysfunctional lot that needed some cleansing-Christ dying did that. The last perfect sacrifice. No longer were animals needed to fulfill this-the lamb came and washed away all that was before him by fulfilling God's promise. Not sure that answered your question, so it if didn't, please ask again

As far as his question to his father-he was human, he had doubt. The sin of the world was placed on him and it was enormous. Sin moves us farther away from God...sin turns our path away from the Lord. When the sin of the world was placed upon him in that fragile time, he very well may have felt he was light years away from his Father. Sin does that, it takes us on that path. He had so much sin, was so far removed from the Father because of this sin, he was simply expressing how he felt at the time. Lost, how we feel if we don't have God in our lives.
'father why have you forsaken me" Being whipped and the crucified by a regime that does this to a man named Jesus and others in the same manor is execution NOT sacrifice. Judas had to turn him over,he was convicted of crimes and executed like other common criminal of the time by the regime in power.

 If it was a sacrifice Judas would not have to betray Jesus and he (Jesus ) would have gone and "sacrificed" himself without having to be betrayed. If he "sacrificed" himself,why the famous last words attributed to him "Father why have you forsaken me?"

Same as above, can't really get much clearer without a specific question-this is why he felt forsaken. At that moment when he died he had all the sin in the world, including past sin thrust upon him to cleanse it. It was enormous for a man, which he was at the time. He had emotions, feelings and his feeling were congruent.

As far as his question to his father-he was human, he had doubt. The sin of the world was placed on him and it was enormous. Sin moves us farther away from God...sin turns our path away from the Lord. When the sin of the world was placed upon him in that fragile time, he very well may have felt he was light years away from his Father. Sin does that, it takes us on that path. He had so much sin, was so far removed from the Father because of this sin, he was simply expressing how he felt at the time. Lost, how we feel if we don't have God in our lives.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #701 on: October 22, 2013, 06:10:52 PM »
 You must first believe in Sin for it to be real. Doing something considered not the norm(or Sin)for the time period,changes as time passes. For example in some churches a woman can now speak her mind without being viewed as immoral
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 06:13:09 PM by 12 Monkeys »
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Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #702 on: October 22, 2013, 06:13:57 PM »
Prehaj is it your belief that God did the sacrificing,by allowing his "son"to be killed? Jesus apparently had no knowledge he would be sacrificed?

No, Jesus knew he would have to die and he knew why he had to die. God sent him as the perfect sacrifice, the perfect offering, the lamb, to cleanse the world of past wrongs and such. Because he is a just God sin does not go unpunished. Jesus dying gave us a clean slate so to speak. There is no other man that was up to the challenge, that could have carried the burden of doing what He did, that is why God sent us his Son. He knew that Jesus would have the drive to get er done.

Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #703 on: October 22, 2013, 06:15:29 PM »
You must first believe in Sin for it to be real. Doing something considered not the norm(or Sin)for the time period,changes as time passes. For example in some churches a woman can now speak her mind without being viewed as immoral

Sin is according to God, not according to man.

What churches didn't allow women to speak freely?

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #704 on: October 22, 2013, 06:16:08 PM »
Christians no longer keep slaves,view women as equal,these were viewed as at the very least evil in the Bible if you did not follow the rules.
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Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #705 on: October 22, 2013, 06:16:51 PM »

My faith is what I go on relative to the bible. Because the argument is about sacrifice meaning loss does not mean it is correct. God sacrificed his Son, his Son was the sacrifice, he didn't lose anything. You are wrong on the meaning of sacrifice in this argument or perhaps trying to make an argument based on the incorrect meaning relative to the subject. Do you just want to argue?

I could ask you the same question. We are talking about the commonly accepted definition of the verb sacrifice (which means  "surrender, give up, suffer to be lost").[1] God supposedly comes down and "gives up" himself to himself (b/c he's God right? - which is a contradiction in itself) - yet he doesn't actually give up anything because he didn't lose anything. He (supposedly) rose! He lost nothing. You can't just ASSUME your theology to win this argument - and just having faith doesn't do you any good either - b/c faith is unreliable for determining fact from fiction. Anyone can "have faith" in any theology but that gets us nowhere in determining what is true from what is not. So again, there was no loss, according to the story, so there was no sacrifice (v.).
 1. http://etymonline.com/?term=sacrifice
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 06:22:15 PM by median »
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #706 on: October 22, 2013, 06:17:20 PM »
Prehaj is it your belief that God did the sacrificing,by allowing his "son"to be killed? Jesus apparently had no knowledge he would be sacrificed?

No, Jesus knew he would have to die and he knew why he had to die. God sent him as the perfect sacrifice, the perfect offering, the lamb, to cleanse the world of past wrongs and such. Because he is a just God sin does not go unpunished. Jesus dying gave us a clean slate so to speak. There is no other man that was up to the challenge, that could have carried the burden of doing what He did, that is why God sent us his Son. He knew that Jesus would have the drive to get er done.
Then why Judas and those FAMOUS last words?
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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #707 on: October 22, 2013, 06:17:27 PM »
Prehaj is it your belief that God did the sacrificing,by allowing his "son"to be killed? Jesus apparently had no knowledge he would be sacrificed?

No, Jesus knew he would have to die and he knew why he had to die. God sent him as the perfect sacrifice, the perfect offering, the lamb, to cleanse the world of past wrongs and such. Because he is a just God sin does not go unpunished. Jesus dying gave us a clean slate so to speak. There is no other man that was up to the challenge, that could have carried the burden of doing what He did, that is why God sent us his Son. He knew that Jesus would have the drive to get er done.

And that's why it's not a sacrifice: he knew it was going to happen, he was prepared.

Pretty much: he committed suicide because he could have prevented it.

Jesus is in Hell getting ass raped by Satan.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #708 on: October 22, 2013, 06:18:40 PM »
You must first believe in Sin for it to be real. Doing something considered not the norm(or Sin)for the time period,changes as time passes. For example in some churches a woman can now speak her mind without being viewed as immoral

Sin is according to God, not according to man.

What churches didn't allow women to speak freely?
Do I have to start mining Bible verses?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #709 on: October 22, 2013, 06:22:43 PM »
Prehaj is it your belief that God did the sacrificing,by allowing his "son"to be killed? Jesus apparently had no knowledge he would be sacrificed?

No, Jesus knew he would have to die and he knew why he had to die. God sent him as the perfect sacrifice, the perfect offering, the lamb, to cleanse the world of past wrongs and such. Because he is a just God sin does not go unpunished. Jesus dying gave us a clean slate so to speak. There is no other man that was up to the challenge, that could have carried the burden of doing what He did, that is why God sent us his Son. He knew that Jesus would have the drive to get er done.
The Gospel according to Thomas suggests that Jesus was a little prick in his early years,that is why it was omitted as a Bible story. Oddly enough if his parents(Jesus) were obeying the Bible they would have "sacrificed"him for being an unruly teen
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #710 on: October 22, 2013, 06:33:34 PM »
Another Christian who hasn't read the Bible: 1 Corinthians 14:34

(KJV)
Quote
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

Preaching the Bible you obviously never read.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline shnozzola

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #711 on: October 22, 2013, 06:43:35 PM »
Sin is according to God, not according to man.

What churches didn't allow women to speak freely?

Welcome, Prejah.

Bold mine.  You say churches didn't.  Past tense.  Plenty of Christian churches currently do not allow
women as leaders.  Old Order Mennonite, or Amish come to mind.  Probably a majority of Christian churches in Africa.  In my mind, a practice not much different than Taliban-type of not allowing women to go to school.
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Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #712 on: October 22, 2013, 06:45:26 PM »
The Gospel according to Thomas suggests that Jesus was a little prick in his early years,that is why it was omitted as a Bible story. Oddly enough if his parents(Jesus) were obeying the Bible they would have "sacrificed"him for being an unruly teen


I love how some apologists try to argue that the other non-canonical gospels shouldn't be allowed into the canon b/c they are inconsistent with the current ones, or b/c they sound "outlandish" or unrealistic. HA! And the gospels themselves don't sound unrealistic? Such gullibility!
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #713 on: October 22, 2013, 07:01:38 PM »

My faith is what I go on relative to the bible. Because the argument is about sacrifice meaning loss does not mean it is correct. God sacrificed his Son, his Son was the sacrifice, he didn't lose anything. You are wrong on the meaning of sacrifice in this argument or perhaps trying to make an argument based on the incorrect meaning relative to the subject. Do you just want to argue?

I could ask you the same question. We are talking about the commonly accepted definition of the verb sacrifice (which means  "surrender, give up, suffer to be lost").[1] God supposedly comes down and "gives up" himself to himself (b/c he's God right? - which is a contradiction in itself) - yet he doesn't actually give up anything because he didn't lose anything. He (supposedly) rose! He lost nothing. You can't just ASSUME your theology to win this argument - and just having faith doesn't do you any good either - b/c faith is unreliable for determining fact from fiction. Anyone can "have faith" in any theology but that gets us nowhere in determining what is true from what is not. So again, there was no loss, according to the story, so there was no sacrifice (v.).
 1. http://etymonline.com/?term=sacrifice

Using your definition of loss, maybe you are correct, but that is not the meaning of sacrifice when speaking about what God gave us. He didn't have to give up anything, he is God. He put forth his Son as the perfect sacrifice. If you are on a quest to find what God gave up in a material sense, then, good luck with that.

Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #714 on: October 22, 2013, 07:07:44 PM »
Prehaj is it your belief that God did the sacrificing,by allowing his "son"to be killed? Jesus apparently had no knowledge he would be sacrificed?

No, Jesus knew he would have to die and he knew why he had to die. God sent him as the perfect sacrifice, the perfect offering, the lamb, to cleanse the world of past wrongs and such. Because he is a just God sin does not go unpunished. Jesus dying gave us a clean slate so to speak. There is no other man that was up to the challenge, that could have carried the burden of doing what He did, that is why God sent us his Son. He knew that Jesus would have the drive to get er done.
Then why Judas and those FAMOUS last words?

I explained the last words twice already in previous posts. Should I copy and paste it again?

There is scripture that points to Judas' betrayal as being part of the entire deal but it doesn't really matter. The events were going to happen whether or not Judas made his betrayal. The tide was turning against Christ, they would have gotten around to arresting him. Judas just cut out a lot of red tape. He wasn't needed in order for the sacrifice to be completed. With or without Judas it would have happened.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #715 on: October 22, 2013, 07:09:50 PM »
Prejah, simple questions i like asking to theists.

Do you agree with same sex marriage?
Would you do anything for god?
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #716 on: October 22, 2013, 07:10:33 PM »
Prehaj is it your belief that God did the sacrificing,by allowing his "son"to be killed? Jesus apparently had no knowledge he would be sacrificed?

No, Jesus knew he would have to die and he knew why he had to die. God sent him as the perfect sacrifice, the perfect offering, the lamb, to cleanse the world of past wrongs and such. Because he is a just God sin does not go unpunished. Jesus dying gave us a clean slate so to speak. There is no other man that was up to the challenge, that could have carried the burden of doing what He did, that is why God sent us his Son. He knew that Jesus would have the drive to get er done.

And that's why it's not a sacrifice: he knew it was going to happen, he was prepared.

Pretty much: he committed suicide because he could have prevented it.

Jesus is in Hell getting ass raped by Satan.

-Nam

Being prepared for it has no bearing on whether or not it was a sacrifice. It was a sacrifice...an offering from God to wash away the sins of man. Jesus was the only man remotely capable of carrying that burden, so of course he knew it was going to happen. He knew he would suffer and be in great pain. I don't get what that has to do with him BEING the sacrifice, not committing A sacrifice. Get the difference?

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #717 on: October 22, 2013, 07:12:09 PM »
You must first believe in Sin for it to be real. Doing something considered not the norm(or Sin)for the time period,changes as time passes. For example in some churches a woman can now speak her mind without being viewed as immoral

Sin is according to God, not according to man.

What churches didn't allow women to speak freely?
Do I have to start mining Bible verses?

to what end?

Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #718 on: October 22, 2013, 07:19:38 PM »
Another Christian who hasn't read the Bible: 1 Corinthians 14:34

(KJV)
Quote
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

Preaching the Bible you obviously never read.

-Nam

And that is relevant in today's society how? That epistle is referencing the Corinthian church which had some chaos. Rules to follow for that church at that time.  That is the problem with picking verses to prove your points. You have to move up to the chapter level and possibly the book level for context.

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #719 on: October 22, 2013, 07:20:59 PM »
Sin is according to God, not according to man.

What churches didn't allow women to speak freely?

Welcome, Prejah.

Bold mine.  You say churches didn't.  Past tense.  Plenty of Christian churches currently do not allow
women as leaders.  Old Order Mennonite, or Amish come to mind.  Probably a majority of Christian churches in Africa.  In my mind, a practice not much different than Taliban-type of not allowing women to go to school.

Yes I was thinking in terms of "chatting it up" but didn't think about being a leader in the church when I wrote that. Broadened perspective for sure.

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #720 on: October 22, 2013, 07:21:27 PM »
Prehaj is it your belief that God did the sacrificing,by allowing his "son"to be killed? Jesus apparently had no knowledge he would be sacrificed?

No, Jesus knew he would have to die and he knew why he had to die. God sent him as the perfect sacrifice, the perfect offering, the lamb, to cleanse the world of past wrongs and such. Because he is a just God sin does not go unpunished. Jesus dying gave us a clean slate so to speak. There is no other man that was up to the challenge, that could have carried the burden of doing what He did, that is why God sent us his Son. He knew that Jesus would have the drive to get er done.

And that's why it's not a sacrifice: he knew it was going to happen, he was prepared.

Pretty much: he committed suicide because he could have prevented it.

Jesus is in Hell getting ass raped by Satan.

-Nam

Being prepared for it has no bearing on whether or not it was a sacrifice. It was a sacrifice...an offering from God to wash away the sins of man. Jesus was the only man remotely capable of carrying that burden, so of course he knew it was going to happen. He knew he would suffer and be in great pain. I don't get what that has to do with him BEING the sacrifice, not committing A sacrifice. Get the difference?

Apparently, you don't know what a sacrifice is. A soldier fighting in a war is a sacrifice. A firefighter going into a burning building is a sacrifice. Jesus dying, and then three days later breathing breath of life again is not a sacrifice. If he stayed dead, then it would have been a sacrifice.

That's the difference. The soldier/firefighter may or may not survive, and they know that going in but they know if they die: THEY WON'T COME BACK! Because that's what death does.

Biblegod coming down in the form of man (Jesus), knowing exactly what's going to happen isn't sacrificing anything because it'll still be Biblegod, in the end. NO SACRIFICE!

See the difference? Of course not.

Why?

Because you're an idiot.

-Nam
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 07:23:13 PM by Nam »
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #721 on: October 22, 2013, 07:28:20 PM »
Another Christian who hasn't read the Bible: 1 Corinthians 14:34

(KJV)
Quote
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

Preaching the Bible you obviously never read.

-Nam

And that is relevant in today's society how? That epistle is referencing the Corinthian church which had some chaos. Rules to follow for that church at that time.  That is the problem with picking verses to prove your points. You have to move up to the chapter level and possibly the book level for context.

Why is homosexuality wrong relevant now?
Why is keeping the Sabbath relevant now?
Why is circumcision relevant now?
Why is adultery relevant now?
Why is Creationism relevant now?
Why is the death penalty relevant now?
Why is women wearing men's clothing relevant now?
Why is the Bible relevant now?

I'm sure you can give an excuse why some are relevant and others irrelevant but the whole thing should be relevant, or none of it is relevant.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #722 on: October 22, 2013, 07:31:11 PM »

Using your definition of loss, maybe you are correct, but that is not the meaning of sacrifice when speaking about what God gave us. He didn't have to give up anything, he is God. He put forth his Son as the perfect sacrifice. If you are on a quest to find what God gave up in a material sense, then, good luck with that.


In a round about way you just conceded the argument (while at the same time trying to disagree - aka you just contradicted yourself). The verb 'sacrifice' means to give up or lose something. According to your own theology, God lost nothing and therefore sacrificed nothing - hence, the thesis of the OP. There was no loss, no giving up anything, no sacrifice. It's really that simple. Besides that, an all-powerful deity 'God' thing wouldn't need blood sacrifice b/c...he's all-powerful! These stories are from men, written by men, and are clearly from the imagination of men. If an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving God existed there simply wouldn't be this kind of barbarism (which was so typical of ancient men). Such a 'loving creator' wouldn't need to kill anything, wouldn't need to threaten anyone, and certainly wouldn't need to have credulous followers be his mouthpiece.



« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 07:34:29 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Prejah

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #723 on: October 22, 2013, 07:36:13 PM »
Prejah, simple questions i like asking to theists.

Do you agree with same sex marriage?
Would you do anything for god?

Closed ended questions? Really?  Will that tell you enough about my points of view to form a valid conclusion?

But if I must...  Do I agree with same sex marriage?  I have no cause to agree or disagree with it. Do I accept it? It is something that happens today. I would not say someone is condemned for it.  I see it as more a political question than a spiritual question. It's not up to me to judge what is right for two people to do. There is enough sin to go around so I don't see this as being any different than being a fat ass and continuing to be a fat ass. Sin is sin. You ask God for forgiveness and go on. If you continue committing the same sin, that is between you and God. I"m not trying to dodge the question. I really don't have an "agree or disagree" position on it.

Would I do anything for God? Are you going to ask me to kill my child next?  I try to be as "Christ like" as I can and follow God's path.  However, I am human, I have emotions, connections with people. I would give my own life for God-meaning if I was in that mall in Kenya and they were going to shoot Christians, I would hold my hands up high and proclaim Christ as my savior. Of course I would have to change my underwear, but I would do it and not renounce my faith.  If you are going to ask me if I would kill a child for God, ala Abraham-I am not sure I could do it. I know God wants me to love him more than anything, but, well, I'm human.

I would do anything that I am capable of for God. Again, not trying to dodge any questions, but closed ended are tough in this sense.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #724 on: October 22, 2013, 07:37:44 PM »
Another Christian who hasn't read the Bible: 1 Corinthians 14:34

(KJV)
Quote
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

Preaching the Bible you obviously never read.

-Nam

And that is relevant in today's society how? That epistle is referencing the Corinthian church which had some chaos. Rules to follow for that church at that time.  That is the problem with picking verses to prove your points. You have to move up to the chapter level and possibly the book level for context.

Why is homosexuality wrong relevant now?
Why is keeping the Sabbath relevant now?
Why is circumcision relevant now?
Why is adultery relevant now?
Why is Creationism relevant now?
Why is the death penalty relevant now?
Why is women wearing men's clothing relevant now?
Why is the Bible relevant now?

I'm sure you can give an excuse why some are relevant and others irrelevant but the whole thing should be relevant, or none of it is relevant.

-Nam
to add more how does a rule become irrelevant because oppression is no longer the social norm?  I am not talking strictly commandments either,there are plenty of rules from God that Christians ignore,Nam has only touched on a few that are now socially acceptable
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)