Author Topic: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?  (Read 30800 times)

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #290 on: October 16, 2013, 05:33:08 PM »
This is one fun thread! Thank you for sticking with it, skeptic54768. You are all the way live, as we used to say back in the day, back in the Hood.

I am getting a bit of JW vibe from you, esp. with the stuff about demons making people believe false religions, not wearing crosses, and seeing satanic symbols everywhere. I was a JW from birth until I started thinking about it all. What I realize now is that if there was one true powerful god-being who really wanted everyone to know about it, everyone would know about it! How could it be otherwise? Why the need for convoluted explanations about god letting demons trick people into hell and so on?

There would be no way the world would look like it does--with most humans coming from polytheistic tribal backgrounds, if one god really existed. There would not be any need for missionaries going around telling people about the one god. We would all know about this one god automatically, the way everyone knows about the sun and the moon.

Maybe we would not all choose to worship it, but we would all know it existed. How could there be false religions, atheists or people changing from the one true faith to anything else? That would only happen if 1) god wanted it to happen or 2) there is no god.

When I lived in different countries, I studied up on lots of different religious traditions, and figured out that they were all wrong.  I stopped believing in all supernatural beings, because there is no good evidence that any exist. I will attend just about anyone's religious service and am willing to listen to anyone's spiel. But it better have good evidence if you expect me to think it is true.

One big thing that made me doubt the Jesus, was meeting so many good and kind people in  non-Christian cultures. There are honest, devout Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, pagans, wiccans, Rastas, santeros and vodun believers-- all of whom share the same basic human values. They love their kids and want them to have good lives. They want good health. They want to live in a peaceful and prosperous society. And they try to make this happen.

Even though most religions say that this life is not the main one and there is an even more important afterlife, nobody acts like they really think this. Nobody is in a big hurry to get to the next life.[1] In reality, everyone acts as though this is the only life they will get. Thank Shango.

Only Christians and Muslims bother to proselytize to others. The rest basically leave you alone to do your thing, or even combine several religions with no problem. The result is that there are very few actual rule-by-religion countries on the planet and few people want to live in one. Thank Thor.

What I have found is that people are basically smart, funny and decent, in spite of the silly, ignorant and contradictory stuff they claim to believe. No matter what their god(s) tell them to do, people don't generally go around robbing, enslaving, raping or killing others. All societies have made those things illegal in spite of their barbaric ancient religious texts and in fact, most people live almost as if they were atheists...... :angel:
 1. Well the few people who act like they really believe it are considered crazy by most everyone else...
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #291 on: October 16, 2013, 05:34:11 PM »
He'll be very nice to you if you're worshiping him. He will make you think you are worshiping God. He will give you things and you will think it's God giving them to you. He'll be your best pal, your best buddy....until the End Times when he will just laugh at you.
Kind of a prayer hacking?
And what free gifts does he give if you join?

Why would you even WANT to even consider listening to Satan? he's a known liar and deceiver.

This goes back to my point of how no rehabilitation or education from God will make people turn away from the devil if they don't want to.

Really? How do you know Satan is a known liar and deceiver? Oh, the Bible tells you so. Not evidence it's true. Try again.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #292 on: October 16, 2013, 05:34:58 PM »
[size=78%]Why do I get called a fraud for expressing my beliefs?[/size]

heck, maybe all atheists are frauds. A lot of people do think atheistic beliefs are nonsense and that some of them are Christians posing to make atheists look bad.

let's not go down that road of "You're a fraud....no you're a fraud!"


Atheism isn't a belief. It is a lack of belief (just like being a non-astrologer). So there are no such things a "atheistic beliefs". Atheism is a response to a single question: Do you have a belief in a God? That is all. Any other subject has nothing to do with theism or atheism.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #293 on: October 16, 2013, 05:38:13 PM »
It' not hypocritical. It's all out there plain as day for anyone to read. It's not just me who has this knowledge:
http://biblelight.net/verita.htm
Again though..........anything outside the book(s)

That is outside the Bible!

Think about it logically:

Baal was a false god.
Baal had a symbol used for him.
Catholics use the symbol for Baal, a false god.
But, Catholics claim to follow Jesus.
So, why use a false satanic symbol?
The answer is to trick the people into helping them serve Satan. The people do not know that this is what their clergy is doing behind their backs. Clergy are using them as pawns in their sick game.

It's simple to see if you are knowledgeable about the subject. But, think about this point: It's very hard to get the catholics to agree, so imagine how difficult it will be to get an atheist to agree...
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jonny-UK

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #294 on: October 16, 2013, 05:38:59 PM »

Why would you even WANT to even consider listening to Satan? he's a known liar and deceiver.

This goes back to my point of how no rehabilitation or education from God will make people turn away from the devil if they don't want to.
As I see it-
God does not exist (so Jesus also does not exist).
Funnily enough, Satan also does NOT exist.
If I don't believe in one why would i believe in the other
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #295 on: October 16, 2013, 05:39:55 PM »
nogodsforme,

JW! Yes, makes sense. Should've thought of that. See, if wilson was still here it'd be a no-brainer. Or, if I were at IGI more often. I like that guy. He never gives up. Got to respect that. This guy could learn from wilson.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Benny

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #296 on: October 16, 2013, 05:41:22 PM »
The bible says that they are demons disguised as false gods.
You're begging the question.

If I ask, "How do you know the bible's true?"  you'll say "because it's God's word."
If I ask, "How do you know it's God's word?" you'll say "because it's in the bible."

And so on and so forth.

It's circular reasoning, and as such, your point is invalid.
I'm here every now and again.
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Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #297 on: October 16, 2013, 05:43:58 PM »
skeptic54768, are you a member of the WatchTower Bible and Tract Society?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #298 on: October 16, 2013, 05:46:57 PM »
It' not hypocritical. It's all out there plain as day for anyone to read. It's not just me who has this knowledge:
http://biblelight.net/verita.htm
Again though..........anything outside the book(s)

That is outside the Bible! ...

That was kind of his point, I think.  Earlier you said that anything outside the Bible should not be trusted.  Yet here you are citing something outside the Bible.

If you don't even believe yourself, then why should anyone else believe you?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #299 on: October 16, 2013, 05:47:25 PM »
[size=78%]Why do I get called a fraud for expressing my beliefs?[/size]

heck, maybe all atheists are frauds. A lot of people do think atheistic beliefs are nonsense and that some of them are Christians posing to make atheists look bad.

let's not go down that road of "You're a fraud....no you're a fraud!"


Atheism isn't a belief. It is a lack of belief (just like being a non-astrologer). So there are no such things a "atheistic beliefs". Atheism is a response to a single question: Do you have a belief in a God? That is all. Any other subject has nothing to do with theism or atheism.

I used to be an atheist so I know about the beliefs. Without belief in God, the universe came from nothing. That would have to be your belief. I know it was mine.

Once I realize how nonsensical that sounded, I decided to do some searching.

It takes intelligence to recognize intelligence in nature. Man can't even create a seed from nothing, but I somehow clung to faith that a seed came about on its own.

Ray Comfort has asked evolutionists for just one simple little proof of one species changing into another species and nobody has ever been able to give him an answer. I've seen his interviews.
Even PZ Myers in the interview said, "i can give you thousands of examples." Ray said "Just one." PZ said, "You don't want one though."

I couldn't be that dishonest anymore. it was like I was lying to myself. I always felt like something was nagging at me.

Show an atheist a drinking straw and they will claim "Design!"
Show an atheist the universe and they will say, "Chance and luck!" :o
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #300 on: October 16, 2013, 05:48:27 PM »
I don't know why I was thinking Mormon now. I knew it had to be a cuckoo sect.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #301 on: October 16, 2013, 05:48:44 PM »
Neither Mormons nor protestants are the right faith. The people themselves may be good, but their leaders are certainly on Satan's side.
And what will you do when you find out that your own religion is a sham, built not around saving people, but around increasing its membership by convincing people of other religions that they're following a false faith?  Which, by the way, is a very common theme in Christianity.

Quote from: skeptic54768
It makes me happy when they learn their faith is the work of demons and come to Jesus.
Naturally, because you've been thoroughly indoctrinated into believing that your faith is the only true one in existence, and everything else is the work of demons.  So of course you feel happiness when you validate your indoctrination by getting people to join your faith.

But that doesn't make anything you say true.

Quote from: skeptic54768
Because the Bible has changed countless lives for the better and has prophecies in it. If the Bible didn't work nobody's lives would be changed for the better. People would read it and go "I don't feel anything." Instead people read it and get an overwhelming joy warming their hearts and change their whole outlook on things.
It has also changed countless lives (many more than it has saved, I'd wager) for the worse, often by leading believers to massacre nonbelievers (and other believers, who didn't follow their particular creed).  By the way, the "false faiths" that you decry also use the Bible to support their own belief systems.  Yet, according to you, those are demonic deceptions...which means that the Bible is being used to lead all those people the wrong way.  Would you say it's changed all those lives for the better?

Quote from: skeptic54768
If the Bible was a joke, people would laugh when they read the Bible. They would say, "I don't understand I'm not feeling anything. This is stupid."
There's a truism that people who want something to work will keep trying until it does work.  This leads people who don't initially feel anything from the Bible to keep trying until they do feel something they can attribute to it.  Not only that, but people often feel joy from reading other things, which warms their hearts and changes their outlook.  This means that the Bible isn't necessarily the source of these strong feelings.

Quote from: skeptic54768
I don't wear a cross. I'm not into symbols. Symbols are pagan in origin, you are right. That's why I don't use them. Jesus is enough for me. I don't need to wear a cross to show off.
Fair enough.  But might the Bible not be a symbol to you?  Might Jesus not be a symbol to you?  Given that the mind works by using symbols, I find it highly unlikely that you have no symbols at all in your religion.

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #302 on: October 16, 2013, 05:50:56 PM »
It' not hypocritical. It's all out there plain as day for anyone to read. It's not just me who has this knowledge:
http://biblelight.net/verita.htm
Again though..........anything outside the book(s)

That is outside the Bible! ...

That was kind of his point, I think.  Earlier you said that anything outside the Bible should not be trusted.  Yet here you are citing something outside the Bible.

If you don't even believe yourself, then why should anyone else believe you?

Pure silliness. I am outside the Bible. You can trust me.

if anyone is leading you to the proper way of the faith, they are not wrong. I am merely trying to explain my viewpoint of how I view my faith.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #303 on: October 16, 2013, 05:52:09 PM »
jaimehlers,

If he is a JW, then the Watchtower would be his symbol.

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Benny

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #304 on: October 16, 2013, 05:56:44 PM »
if anyone is leading you to the proper way of the faith, they are not wrong.

So you believe that you are of the proper faith? *sigh*

I'm going to ask you this question again, Skeptic, and I need an answer or this conversation (between you and me) is over:

HOW DO YOU KNOW?
I'm here every now and again.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #305 on: October 16, 2013, 05:57:28 PM »
Pure silliness. I am outside the Bible. You can trust me.

So you were lying earlier when you said that anything outside the book shouldn't be trusted.  Kind of means that I can't trust you, eh?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #306 on: October 16, 2013, 06:00:08 PM »
if anyone is leading you to the proper way of the faith, they are not wrong.

So you believe that you are of the proper faith? *sigh*

I'm going to ask you this question again, Skeptic, and I need an answer or this conversation (between you and me) is over:

HOW DO YOU KNOW?

Because of the Bible prophecies and my experience with God and other people's. My friend was reading the Gospel of Matthew and said he saw a flaming cross in front of him. This confirmed the Gospel for him. He was never into it until that day. now, he can't stop talking about it.

Things like that are why you can't convince me that it's false.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #307 on: October 16, 2013, 06:00:40 PM »
This dude's lost.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #308 on: October 16, 2013, 06:00:57 PM »
Pure silliness. I am outside the Bible. You can trust me.

So you were lying earlier when you said that anything outside the book shouldn't be trusted.  Kind of means that I can't trust you, eh?

You can trust people who tell you the right way. For they are the true witnesses.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #309 on: October 16, 2013, 06:02:09 PM »
This dude's lost.

-Nam

I used to be lost, but not anymore.

Why does it seem that atheists seem to judge over people's beliefs so much while simultaneously preaching tolerance?

I used to be the same way, but I never knew why I did it.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #310 on: October 16, 2013, 06:02:16 PM »
Pure silliness. I am outside the Bible. You can trust me.

So you were lying earlier when you said that anything outside the book shouldn't be trusted.  Kind of means that I can't trust you, eh?

You can trust people who tell you the right way. For they are the true witnesses.

More excuses and adding things after-the-fact.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #311 on: October 16, 2013, 06:03:01 PM »


No. it is very dangerous to follow your own understanding. This is a demonic doctrine. It's even written in the Bible, "Lean not on your own understanding." Demons want you to believe that you know it all and you don't need God.


Yes, Someone who thinks he is totally correct is dangerous, like the person below who thinks that everyone is wrong except him. In his fantasies he always thinks he is the hero of his god. He and his god are in total agreement. He is the one specially chosen to go to heaven because he can see that everyone else has a satanic religion. Could it be that his god is his own imagination?



Plenty of people think they are worshiping God, but they are following a false religion. Since I am not following a false religion, I am not one of those people that the verse is speaking about.

This is just the way it is. I have lead many people away from their false churches. I can only be the messenger.


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Offline Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #312 on: October 16, 2013, 06:03:32 PM »
This dude's lost.

-Nam

I used to be lost, but not anymore.

Why does it seem that atheists seem to judge over people's beliefs so much while simultaneously preaching tolerance?

I used to be the same way, but I never knew why I did it.

Not what I meant: this dude HAS lost.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #313 on: October 16, 2013, 06:08:55 PM »
I used to be an atheist so I know about the beliefs. Without belief in God, the universe came from nothing. That would have to be your belief. I know it was mine.

Once I realize how nonsensical that sounded, I decided to do some searching.

You obviously didn't do very much critical thinking back then because there arguments are false and logically fallacious. Again, atheism is not a belief in anything. It's a lack of belief. If you were an anti-theist that is a different claim altogether. Secondly, no one is stating the universe came from nothing (not scientists, not atheists, and not even you!). Is God eternal according to you? If so, then the universe came from something, namely God. So please stop with the "from nothing" argument. It is absurd. And no, it is not my belief!

So it looks like your beliefs have been faulty the whole time, because regardless of what you claimed then or now your arguments have been irrational.

It takes intelligence to recognize intelligence in nature. Man can't even create a seed from nothing, but I somehow clung to faith that a seed came about on its own.

You were wrong then for having "faith" and you are still wrong. If you had solid evidence and sound reasoning you wouldn't need faith - b/c faith is unreliable for telling truth from fiction. "Intelligence" (i.e. - design) is distinguished from nature. We contrast nature with human design. But unlike humans designing things you have no demonstrations of gods designing universes. Your argument here stems from the logical fallacy called The Argument from Ignorance/Incredulity.


Ray Comfort has asked evolutionists for just one simple little proof of one species changing into another species and nobody has ever been able to give him an answer. I've seen his interviews.
Even PZ Myers in the interview said, "i can give you thousands of examples." Ray said "Just one." PZ said, "You don't want one though."

Like you, Ray Comfort does not understand what the theory of evolution actually teaches. You are both ignorant of the subject[1] Species do not "change into another species". This is a flaw with your conception of what evolution is, not the theory itself. Sorry, your ignorance does not disprove scientific facts. See here: [/size]http://talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-definition.html

I couldn't be that dishonest anymore. it was like I was lying to myself. I always felt like something was nagging at me.

The dishonesty is all on you based upon your ignorance and flawed irrational thinking processes that lead you to false conclusions. What should be nagging at you is whether or not you are being intellectually honest and trying to be logical instead of using logical fallacies to support your assumptions.

Show an atheist a drinking straw and they will claim "Design!"
Show an atheist the universe and they will say, "Chance and luck!" :o

1. NOPE. I will claim HUMAN design.
2. NOPE. I will say let's investigate and not assume what makes us feel comfortable. Let's admit ignorance and withhold judgment until we have sound evidence.
 1. btw, did you know that "theory" is the highest point in science? See here: http://www.notjustatheory.com/
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #314 on: October 16, 2013, 06:10:56 PM »
You can trust people who tell you the right way. For they are the true witnesses.


You mean you can trust people who are telling you the right way to think critically and stop using logical fallacies?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #315 on: October 16, 2013, 06:12:17 PM »
Yes, Someone who thinks he is totally correct is dangerous, like the person below who thinks that everyone is wrong except him. In his fantasies he always thinks he is the hero of his god. He and his god are in total agreement. He is the one specially chosen to go to heaven because he can see that everyone else has a satanic religion. Could it be that his god is his own imagination?

lol I am not dangerous. I find it funny that atheists seem to describe Christians as dangerous. How dangerous were you guys when you were Christians? Did you yell at yourself for being dangerous?

I am all about loving one another and wanting people to get on the right path and stop worshiping demons. I can only be the messenger though. Only they know what is in their hearts.

I'm certainly not going to lie and say "The Catholic Church worships Jesus" when all evidence indicates they are into Satan.

If they want to be taken seriously, they need to get rid of all that Satanic imagery and pagan sun worship.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline median

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #316 on: October 16, 2013, 06:13:42 PM »
Because of the Bible prophecies and my experience with God and other people's. My friend was reading the Gospel of Matthew and said he saw a flaming cross in front of him. This confirmed the Gospel for him. He was never into it until that day. now, he can't stop talking about it.

Things like that are why you can't convince me that it's false.

So basically, you are gullible and don't really care whether or not your beliefs are true. You just want to believe what makes you feel comfortable so you ignore any negative evidence and only focus on what confirms your belief.

Do you know what that is called?

CONFIRMATION BIAS
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Nam

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #317 on: October 16, 2013, 06:14:02 PM »
I was a Christian last when I was 12 or 13 years old. I had other things on my mind.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Azdgari

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Re: Jesus - What Kind of Sacrifice Are You Talking About?
« Reply #318 on: October 16, 2013, 06:16:18 PM »
You can trust people who tell you the right way. For they are the true witnesses.

Sounds pretty outside-the-book to me.  Just like that website.  Very outside-the-book.

So you were lying earlier.  Must not be a true witness.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.