Hey guys, I'm a Christian and hope to discuss things with you. My username means that I am skeptical of non-belief. It's kind of a "reverse" of the normal use for skeptic.
yeah. Kind of like being ignorant is the reverse of being knowledgeable.
With that said, I would like to say that Jesus' sacrifice was important because He willingly did it.
? Why is that the important part? Would we not have been saved had he been forced to it? Sin would have been paid for either way, no?
Jesus showed that he conquered death. Everybody dies, but Jesus was an exception. That's what made it so extraordinary.
but he was allegedly god, thus immortal. So not really that extraordinary and not particularly exceptional for a god.
In the Old Testament, blood of an innocent lamb was used on the door's of the Hebrews. This represented how an innocent animal must be sacrificed to atone for sins.
Does that not sound primitive and barbaric? What kind of god works that way?
Also, was the "innocent" lamb willing or was it forced?
This was foreshadowing the New testament where jesus is the innocent lamb and used as a final sacrifice for all.
So someone else died to pay for your transgressions. You do the crime, someone else does the time. Does that really strike you as justice? How do you feel about that, ethically?
That's why animal sacrifices are not needed anymore.
No, not according to the jews. Animals are not sacrificed any more because the temple was destroyed.
I know a lot of people think of the OT as "Evil" and "barbaric" but it is not.
? So says you. It is clearly barbaric. It portrays barbaric characters with barbaric ethics doing barbaric things. Explain how it is not barbaric. Otherwise this conversation becomes "nu-uh" "yuh-huh" back and forth.
There are reasons God does what he does.
Says you. What are the reasons and how do you know? What makes those reasons non-barbaric?
Blood spread o the door was not evil and barbaric.
It is certainly disgusting and barbaric. Explain how it was not.
It symbolized the coming of Jesus' sacrifice in the New Testament.
Does not make it not barbaric.
I'm not here to preach, just to explain my point of view. I will not just be quoting the Bible mindlessly.
Excellent. Be prepared to be challenged and explain and support your assertions.
All I know is that a lot of things in the Bible are based on the number 3. I can not tell you why God picked the number 3.
Because jews were superstitious and into numerology. They though numbers has magical meanings.
I do not have kids, but if God told me to sacrifice one of them, I would do it.
Pardon me if this sounds harsh, but you are either a fucking monster or criminally insane. You should be locked up and prevented from being around any children. I strongly urge you to call your local police and confess your murderous inclinations for the sake of everyone around you.
Right now you may be thinking, "What a sicko!" but I believe you may be missing the point.
Yes, I am thinking that, but no, I am not missing the point. I believe you
are missing the point.
God will never ask me to do that because sacrificing is OVER. Jesus completed it. No more sacrifices. If 'God' told me to sacrifice my child, it would be a demon masquerading as God to try and fool me, and I wouldn't end up doing it anyway.
I have a couple of thoughts. The first is, you were only talking shit when you said you'd kill your kids. You were saying what badass, cold-blooded faith you had and how you would gladly
murder children for god. But you don't have kids. So you don't know what they would mean to you. And only did that because you thought god would never call your bluff. So, you're just a loud mouth who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. A poser for jesus.
Second, you are trying to put god in a box. God is not constrained by what you think he wants. Neither is he constrained by what he told some people 2000 years ago. yhwh has never respected any deal. Remember Job? yhwh had a deal to protect him and make him prosper in exchange for Job's loyalty. Instead, yhwh let an angel inflict horrible suffering on him, breaking the deal, but still demanded Job's loyalty.
If god wanted you to kill some kids, he would tell you to kill some kids. It wouldn't be the first time he did that. Your problem is you have no way to know whether it was yhwh, the devil, Loki or a halucination. How could you tell the difference?
Again, I'm just trying to explain my view and thought process.
Suffice it to say, I think your views and thought processes are... misguided at best.
A lot of those things were because the nations refused to worship the true God. They were all worshiping false gods and disobeying God. God gave them chance after chance after chance to repent but they did not do it. They knew the punishment was coming and they didn't care.
You are making our case for us.
Any reasonable parent would stick to the punishment if their children broke the rules. Otherwise, the children will do whatever they want and that's not good.
Parents punish children so they learn and change their behavior. What does a person learn by being executed? How does that positively change their behavior?
Jesus gave up his Heavenly status in order to become human. He then went back after it was fulfilled.
So it wasn't a sacrifice. If you give up something for five minutes, it's not really a sacrifice. You keep focusing on the innocence part, and missing the whole sacrifice part. It was no sacrifice if nothing was lost. He was god before and god afterward, with an uncomfortable weekend in between.