Author Topic: Richard Dawkins is not my hero  (Read 6157 times)

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Online Mrjason

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #87 on: October 07, 2013, 07:37:38 AM »
^^^ There is also the problem of impared judgement caused by alcohol or drugs. There is a lot of case law surrounding the point in intoxication where consent becomes impossible.

I think this also contributes to the lack of reporting, where the victim questions whether or not they did infact consent to an act that they would not have ordinarilty consented to. i.e. A 1 night stand after a drinking binge.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #88 on: October 07, 2013, 07:58:34 AM »
I understand that I am a big bad male, but I'm going to put a different spin on it.

I have been shot at by a black person. Should I now treat all blacks as people who want to shoot me?

Because AFAIAC, that is THE SAME ARGUMENT, except it isn't the politically correct one.

Can you identify something about someone being black that would make you far more likely to get shot by one than by someone who is not black? 

Statistics: Blacks are 12.6% of the Population and 53.0% of the shooters in firearm homicides when the perpetrator's race is known.


 AFAIAC, that is THE SAME ARGUMENT, except it isn't the politically correct one. You are treating me as a danger and guilty until proven innocent based on birth circumstance. End.



« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 08:00:59 AM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Online Azdgari

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #89 on: October 07, 2013, 10:29:38 AM »
Can you identify something about someone being black that would make you far more likely to get shot by one than by someone who is not black? 

Statistics: Blacks are 12.6% of the Population and 53.0% of the shooters in firearm homicides when the perpetrator's race is known.

Jesus F. Christ, Hatter, are you being obtuse on purpose?  Answer the damned question or don't answer at all.  What about being black leads to that?  Causative factors, here.  Something physically about being black, not the statistics which might have any number of causes.

Now, can you think of something physically about being male that might make a man more likely than a woman, to rape a woman?  Think deeply here.  I know you can do it.

AFAIAC, that is THE SAME ARGUMENT, except it isn't the politically correct one. You are treating me as a danger and guilty until proven innocent based on birth circumstance physical reality of personal attributes. End.

Yup.  Wilfully obtuse.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 10:33:04 AM by Azdgari »
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #90 on: October 07, 2013, 10:32:19 AM »
Here in Australia, there is the a stereotype that Aboriginals steal bikes.

I thought it was a funny joke, but obviously just exaggerating things.

Then an aboriginal stole my bike... :|
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #91 on: October 07, 2013, 01:50:54 PM »
Yup.  Wilfully obtuse.

NO. NOT WILFULLY OBTUSE. WILLFULLY REFUSING TO ACCEPT BEING TREATED AS UNDER SUSPICION BASED ON MY GENDER AS A GOOD AND ACCEPTABLE THING.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Online Azdgari

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #92 on: October 07, 2013, 02:41:56 PM »
This is not about you, Hatter.  It's not about me.  We need to get over ourselves and put peoples' freedom and safety above our own egos.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Nam

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #93 on: October 07, 2013, 02:55:30 PM »
Let go of my ego.

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #94 on: October 07, 2013, 03:53:13 PM »
Yup.  Wilfully obtuse.

NO. NOT WILFULLY OBTUSE. WILLFULLY REFUSING TO ACCEPT BEING TREATED AS UNDER SUSPICION BASED ON MY GENDER AS A GOOD AND ACCEPTABLE THING.

Hatter, I don't think that women want to treat all men with suspicion. Nor do we see the way we have to behave around men as a "good and acceptable thing". It is not women who create the environment where many of us feel that we are under siege a lot of the time. The problem is, when we let our guard down and behave as if men are fine and trustworthy fellows, too often men violate that trust.

You did not respond to my question of what you would tell an adolescent female friend or relative about what to expect when she begins to attract male attention. If my experience is representative, she will begin to get graphic sexual suggestions, evaluative comments and so forth, long before she is emotionally equipped to cope with the situation. Just as she is beginning to understand what it means to be a woman,  she has to also learn how to discuss sexual matters with male strangers in public. Some of these men will try to touch her or try to get her into their cars. And she will be faced with these situations at random moments, pretty much for the rest of her life. If she eventually becomes suspicious or afraid of men as a result of this, it is her own fault, right?

I am assuming from your comments, that you are a white person and have had a bad experience with a black person shooting a gun at you. (I am sorry that happened and hope that you were not hurt.)

If you want to compare the experience of women with racial gun violence, you would have to have not only been shot at by a black person, but have had black people frequently aim guns at you and pretend to fire them, had black people talk to you often about how they would like to shoot you, had black people in business and social events show their guns to you and discuss how much they like shooting white people, overheard black people brag about shooting white people, been warned by your parents about how much black people will try to shoot you, had black customers and black fellow workers tell you that it would be fun to shoot you.

In college a black professor once got you alone in his office and discussed shooting you. A black celebrity-- who you once admired-- suggested shooting you while signing an autograph. A black politician at a fundraising barbecue got drunk and tried to shoot you. Black therapists, dentists and doctors have been known to shoot at their white patients.

In the the military, there is an epidemic of black soldiers shooting at white soldiers in their own units, leading to special hearings.  There are lots of popular shows and videos where black people shoot at white people and the white people seem to like it. There are popular songs about black people shooting white people, who again, seem to like it. And you have had friends and family who have also had all the other experiences above at the hands of black people.

If this is your reality, then you have a valid comparison. I would imagine that you would be more than a bit wary of black people, and might have gotten the idea, somehow,  that some of them might sometimes want to shoot you. Then, of course, you are expected to make friends with black people, work alongside them and interact with them as if you don't think they want to shoot you. And if you do someday get shot by a black person, you will be blamed for not taking adequate steps to behave appropriately at all times so perfectly normal black people won't want to shoot you...

Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #95 on: October 07, 2013, 04:53:04 PM »
You did not respond to my question of what you would tell an adolescent female friend or relative about what to expect when she begins to attract male attention.

When Natasha Lyonne was in Slums of Beverly Hills, she wore prosthetic boobs.  At first, she loved them.  Walked around with her shoulders back, proud as hell.  The director said, she didn't get it.  Wear them off set for a couple days.  She said that brought all kinds of unwanted attention, and started walking with her shoulders forward, kinda hunched over, trying to hide them.  She got it.

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Online Mrjason

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #96 on: October 08, 2013, 04:32:13 AM »
nogodsforme, you need to add the fact that gun toting black people make up 50% of the population to give a truly valid comparison.

Good points though.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #97 on: October 08, 2013, 08:54:45 AM »
nogodsforme, you need to add the fact that gun toting black people make up 50% of the population to give a truly valid comparison.

Good points though.

And, if you want to procreate you have to find a decent and suitable black person...
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Nam

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #98 on: October 08, 2013, 09:58:27 AM »
nogodsforme, you need to add the fact that gun toting black people make up 50% of the population to give a truly valid comparison.

Good points though.

And, if you want to procreate you have to find a decent and suitable black person...

Heathcliff!

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #99 on: October 08, 2013, 12:13:46 PM »
Hatter, I don't think that women want to treat all men with suspicion. Nor do we see the way we have to behave around men as a "good and acceptable thing". It is not women who create the environment where many of us feel that we are under siege a lot of the time. The problem is, when we let our guard down and behave as if men are fine and trustworthy fellows, too often men violate that trust.
I once got accused by a coworker of threatening conduct because of an umbrella once.  Think one of those umbrellas that's about three feet long.  I was trying to navigate through a door and almost hit her with it, apologized, then said it was almost like a sword and maybe made a little swish with it (I barely remembered the event - some of that is based on me reconstructing things in my memory, so it's not necessarily reliable).  She took that to HR.  As a result, I was instructed to simply avoid her from then on, because the HR manager (also a woman) knew me well enough to know that there was not even a slight threat involved.  She also said that she had known people who would have done such a thing and meant it.

The problem is that the environment where men are automatically considered threatening gets propagated by the actions of both men and women.  It's one of those vicious cycles that builds on itself at this point, and it has been for a long time.  If we want to change that, we have to break the cycle somehow.  Honestly, teaching women self-defense (and I mean real self-defense, as in, something like aiki) seems to me to be one of the better ways to do it.  It isn't just the physical defense aspect that I'm talking about, either.

Because, honestly, a lot of women are vulnerable to assault by men.  And they know it.  I can't imagine that does a lot for their confidence, or their willingness to trust men.  But a martial art like aiki is built around disabling and restraining an opponent - usually a stronger and larger opponent.  The whole martial art is designed around people in an inferior position being able to overcome people in a superior one - the basis is someone who was disarmed having to defend themselves against an opponent with a razor-sharp sword, and turning the tables on them.

Not only that, but the knowledge that you can defend yourself against an attacker does wonders for one's confidence and maturity.  I mean, a number of the techniques used in aiki can seriously hurt or kill someone.  That's why a lot of it is not just teaching someone how to fight, but why they shouldn't fight.

As far as dealing with strangers making sexual comments, I don't really have any experience with that, but I imagine confidence plays a part there too.  People try to find weaknesses, buttons to push, and some of them will push really hard if they find any.  Anyone who's been bullied knows this.  The way to defeat such is with confidence - but it's not easy to acquire, especially if you're under constant siege - or even if you just feel like you're under constant siege.  In truth, the vast majority of people simply ignored me and the fact that I was getting bullied - it contributed to the oppressive atmosphere even though they weren't really doing anything.  And it's difficult to build confidence if it feels like everyone is against you, just waiting to tear it down.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Richard Dawkins is not my hero
« Reply #100 on: October 08, 2013, 02:26:40 PM »
^^^^True dat. Mental and physical self defense are important skills for everyone. But in order to deal with the sexual harassment aspects, girls would have to start learning these techniques at about age ten.  :P

I got my daughter into martial arts when she was 6 and now, ten years later, she is testing for her full black belt. Nobody looking at her would think she loves MMA-style fighting, grappling and sparring. [1]I can't protect her from the feeling of being under siege, but I know that she can kick the a$$ of anyone who dares to lay a hand on her. I hope that someday some a$$hole tries to make a move on her at a conference in an elevator at night. This will be the result.

 1. Unlike me, she is a girly girl, into hair, clothes, shoes and makeup. She loves the boys in One Direction (where did I go wrong?)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.