Author Topic: Kansas strikes again  (Read 512 times)

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Offline Jag

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Kansas strikes again
« on: September 27, 2013, 11:46:26 AM »
http://www.pacificjustice.org/1/post/2013/09/atheistic-elementary-school-instruction-challenged.html

The above linked press release opens with this: Families across Kansas became one step closer, today, to protecting their children from forced atheistic teaching in their public school system. Pacific Justice Institute filed a complaint in Federal District Court challenging the State Board of Education's (BOE) adoption of certain science standards which would create a hostile learning environment for those of faith.

Hostile learning environment. For learning science. Hostile. Because, science. Or more accurately, because, not god.  :?
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Dante

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2013, 11:49:46 AM »
Quote
<HTML><META HTTP-EQUIV="content-type" CONTENT="text/html;charset=utf-8">
Brad Dacus, President of Pacific Justice Institute noted, "it's an egregious
violation of the rights of Americans to subject students—as young as five—to an
authoritative figure such as a teacher who essentially tells them that their
faith is wrong." He continued, "it's one thing to explore alternatives at an
appropriate age, but to teach theory that is devoid of any alternative which
aligns with the belief of people of faith is just wrong."<BR><BR>

Wow. Zero regard for the truth. Brilliant.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Jag

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2013, 12:01:10 PM »
There's a phrase that I keep finding myself using more and more, and it makes me really sad for the future of my country: we keep stopping one thought too soon....
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Nick

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2013, 12:21:35 PM »
And we wonder why teaching in public schools is becoming more and more bland?  Teachers can't challenge students in anything without fallout from some nut fringe.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Jag

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2013, 12:39:34 PM »
It makes me wonder just what function schools are supposed to be performing. It's pretty clear that teaching students to think is not an option, at least not in Kansas if this lawsuit is representative of the state of education.

(Anyone else reminded of the scene in "Dead Poet's Society" when Robin Williams' character is having a confrontation with the headmaster? The headmaster goes on a rant about the dangers of teaching students to think, and that it is NOT the teacher's job to do so.)

The short-sightedness of that mentality is just boggling to me - if they are not permitted to learn to think while in the educational system, when exactly is it supposed to occur? Do these idiot realize that they are killing off the next generation of doctors with this attitude? I understand they see science as a threat but when they get old and feeble who the hell do they think is going to be prepared to help them manage their health?

Obvious consequence, too thick-headed to think just far enough to see it.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2013, 12:45:19 PM »
Again, why we should treat religion, legally speaking, as the same as community theater.

This learning to think aspect of education is interfering with the beliefs of my community theater.

Brad Dacus, President of Pacific Justice Institute noted, "it's an egregious
violation of the rights of Americans to subject students ”as young as five” to an
authoritative figure such as a teacher who essentially tells them that their
community theater is wrong." He continued, "it's one thing to explore alternatives at an
appropriate age, but to teach theory that is devoid of any alternative which
aligns with the belief of my fellow thespians is just wrong.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Nam

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2013, 02:18:03 PM »
The irony is, these same people would have their beliefs taught in all public schools in Kansas, or any other place in the US, as fact.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2013, 03:04:10 PM »
Such a sad state of affairs when parents want their children to be protected from science education because it 'threatens' their faith.

To put it bluntly, a faith that is threatened by science is a delusion.

Offline wright

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2013, 03:10:49 PM »
Yeah, saw this over at the Friendly Atheist, too:http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/09/27/the-kansas-board-of-education-seriously-just-got-sued-for-promoting-the-teaching-of-evolution-in-science-classes/

FWIW, the legal specialists who track this kind of nonsense see it as trivial and unlikely to succeed. From the blog entry:
Quote
    Joshua Rosenau, programs and policy director for the Oakland, California-based National Center for Science Education, said Calvert has been making such an argument for years and “no one in the legal community has put much stock in it.”

    “They’re trying to say anything that’s not promoting their religion is promoting some other religion,” Rosenau said, dismissing the argument as “silly.”

    …

    Steven Case, director of the University of Kansas’ science education center, said previous court rulings suggest that the new lawsuit “won’t hold up.”

    “This is about as frivolous as lawsuits get,” Case said.

There's a link there that goes to the article in the Kansas City Star. The comments there are (mostly) refreshingly dismissive of this idiocy, even the ones from professed Christians.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline Nam

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2013, 03:58:44 PM »
That may be true but in places like Kansas, they may be able to pull it off. Look what Texas has done to their educational system.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Nick

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2013, 05:44:11 PM »
The problem with Texas is that most of the country's textbook are printed there.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Nam

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2013, 05:51:52 PM »
That's not the only thing wrong with Texas.

;)

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Zankuu

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2013, 07:05:29 PM »
I picked out the craziest bits from the civil action case file. Enjoy:

  • I.1. The Plaintiffs [...] complain that the adoption by the Defendant State Board of Education [...] will have the effect of causing Kansas public schools to establish and endorse a non-theistic religious worldview (the "Worldview") [...]
  • II.7. The purpose of the indoctrination is to establish the religious Worldview, not to deliver to an age appropriate audience an objective and religiously neutral origins science education that seeks to inform.
  • II.8. The orthodoxy, called methodological naturalism or scientific materialism, holds that explanations of the cause and nature of natural phenomena may only use natural, material or mechanistic causes [...]
  • II.9. The Orthodoxy is an atheistic faith-based doctrine [...]
  • II.13. Other methods of Indoctrination. Other tools of indoctrination and evangelism are detailed in paragraphs 87 through 122 below, but three additional strategies employed by the F&S reflect a purpose to establish in impressionable minds the materialistic/atheistic Worldview rather than to provide an objective and religiously neutral origins science education.
  • II.19. The effect of teaching for thirteen years only the materialistic/atheistic side of a religious controversy to an audience that is not age appropriate is religious, not educationally objective, and is indicative of an intent to inculcate and establish that non-theistic religious Worldview in the children.
  • III.26. Plaintiff Citizens for Objective Public Education (“COPE”) is a nonprofit organization whose purpose is to promote the religious rights of parents, students and tax payers in public education [...]
  • III.27. Plaintiffs [...] are Christian parents who seek to instill in their children a belief that life is a creation made for a purpose, that does not end on death and is not simply a purposeless occurrence that is the product of an unguided evolutionary process.
  • III.28. Plaintiffs BR, HR, BR and NR seek to enforce their rights to not be indoctrinated [...]

Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline Nam

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2013, 07:11:12 PM »
As I said: they would happily force everyone to their belief system, if they could (and have in the past).

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline wright

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2013, 07:38:32 PM »
Almighty Bastet, it's fractal: the deeper you go into it and examine the details, the crazier it gets.

Or like pearl diving. "Just think, class: at the heart of each of these smooth, featureless spheres is a tiny, irritating grain of fact that a fundamentalist mind- after years, perhaps decades of indoctrination and active denial- has covered with layer after layer of lies and self-deception."

Thanks for braving the deeps of loonieness to bring those black pearls up, Zankuu.

Seriously, the plaintiffs in this case must be such fearful people. Their comfort zones are so small, their faith so fragile that they need to stuff the whole world into the pigeonhole of their SPAG to function. It would be sad if they weren't also trying to shove it down so many children's throats.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline Irish

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2013, 09:40:34 PM »
These people are nutjobs.  Complete and utter nutjobs.

Saw in one of the posts that KU was mentioned and it reminded me of my time at K-State.  The whole fiasco with the Board of Education over evolution and the science standards is well known around the biology department.  Comics were/are posted on bulletin boards about it, biology professors played a role, and there is a slight twinge of embarrassment within the campus biology departments.  And trust me when I say that professors are well aware of these current ramblings.

But as a ray of light it should be noted that in my Evolution class we only mentioned the creationist objections to evolution.  More of an afterthought than anything.  It really comprises 0% of the curriculum and rightfully so.
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline Boots

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Re: Kansas strikes again
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2013, 10:45:22 PM »
(Anyone else reminded of the scene in "Dead Poet's Society" when Robin Williams' character is having a confrontation with the headmaster? The headmaster goes on a rant about the dangers of teaching students to think, and that it is NOT the teacher's job to do so.)

I love that movie!

Robin Williams: "I thought the whole purpose of education was to make kids free thinkers."
Headmaster: "At this age?  Not on your life!"
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

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