Author Topic: A Relationship With God  (Read 4111 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Truth OT

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1452
  • Darwins +88/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
A Relationship With God
« on: September 26, 2013, 10:28:55 AM »
I had a bit of an argument with my wife regarding the basis of faith and how those of us who have or have had faith in God force ourselves to be either willfully ignorant or unknowingly hypocritical. She pointed out that no one can judge another person's relationship with God and all I could do was shake my head and try to get her to understand the following.

Individuals, especially of the Abrahamic faiths tend to believe in a variations of the God(s) spoken of in their religious texts. To 99.999% of believers God is not the sovereign that is found on the pages of scripture but rather a subjective, personal, mental construct of each believing individual. The individual personifies God in their minds and limits God to the prism of their perception making God far less than what a real 'God' should be. To most, God becomes a loving, mighty, and powerful personal entity that offers them service, guidance, and protection in return for praise and gratitude. This 'god' entity is not God at all, but rather a created machination used by a person to help them in life by offering them hope of not only overcoming trials, but also hope of being able to live in a manner that is closer to THE PERSON'S ideals of what is right and moral. Bottom line, people don't serve God, they tend to want to subject not only themselves but also the people they encounter with being subserviant to their own ideals and beliefs pertaining to how one should live and also think.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2013, 10:33:06 AM »
Did you notice that no one ever disagrees with god on any issue?  I've never heard someone say, "You know, I really think X, but god thinks Y.  I just don't see eye to eye with god on this one."

Instead I hear how he and god agree on everything.  Imagine that.
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1505
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Retired Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2013, 11:13:24 AM »
Would the assumption of "almost everyone has their own opinions on what god is like." be correct?
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10573
  • Darwins +192/-8
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2013, 11:34:46 AM »
I always hated when someone would ask. "Do you know Jesus?"  Like you could have a personal relationship with this god thing.  I guess I always knew on some level it was all crap and it just burned my ass when someone would ask that.  I always thought, "you are not a very smart person or a con man".
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Truth OT

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1452
  • Darwins +88/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2013, 11:45:17 AM »
I always hated when someone would ask. "Do you know Jesus?"  Like you could have a personal relationship with this god thing. 

Today, when confronted with this accusatory question my answer is a proud yes followed by an explanation that they do not know "my Jesus" just as I do not know theirs because to me Jesus is something quite different than what Jesus is to believer x. I tell them I know my Jesus just a intimately if not moreso than they know their Jesus because both ae but person constructs based on our respective beliefs and convictions or lack thereof. I then challenge them to show how their version of Jesus is any more real and personal than mine and that is a challenge that is rarely accepted.

Online Foxy Freedom

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1696
  • Darwins +112/-12
  • Why is it so difficult to say you don't know?
    • Foxy Freedom on Doctor Who
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2013, 12:12:57 PM »
I know a professor at Oxford university who used to be atheist but now he has become Christian. His god is a middle class Englishman who might visit to see how you are, not the kind of god who would mess around with anyone of course, or casually slaughter whole populations.

If you want to really know a religious person's personality, ask them what their god is like.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 12:16:38 PM by Foxy Freedom »
The Foxy Freedom antitheist website is http://the6antitheist6guide6.blogspot.co.uk

The 2nd edition of the free ebook Devil or Delusion ? The danger of Christianity to Democracy Freedom and Science.       http://t.co/2d1KcJ9V

Offline neopagan

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1161
  • Darwins +86/-3
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2013, 12:36:16 PM »
Ask a believer to compare their relationship with god to any other human relationship. I hear crap like, it's indescribable, it's like no other relationship... All nonsense answers. Kinda like their heavenspeak.
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Jonny-UK

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
  • Darwins +31/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2013, 12:49:40 PM »
I feel quite confident that my imaginary friend is the one true imaginary friend. :P
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2013, 02:01:56 PM »
Would the assumption of "almost everyone has their own opinions on what god is like." be correct?

correct, but inadequate.  do a search on SPAG.
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Truth OT

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1452
  • Darwins +88/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 03:06:22 PM »
I feel quite confident that my imaginary friend is the one true imaginary friend. :P

I guess by virtue of the fact that we a concept can be thought of or imagined, that in some respects makes whatever whim in a person's head real (to them at least). So in a sense, a person's imaginary friend is the "one true" and others with these mental hangups that dictate the need for the existence of an imaginary ideal can say the same thing because gods, more specifically the beliefs in and about them are all relative to the believer.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2013, 06:03:45 PM »
^^^^That is why missionaries are deluding themselves. Do they really think that the Jesus or Jehovah that the people of whatever culture are praying to is the same as the one they have in their own European or Korean or US minds?

Are Kenyans, Mexicans, Filipinos and Armenians all worshipping the same Christian god when they don't even use the same words when they pray to it? Languages do not translate concrete objects very well-- how would you describe mysterious magical beings accurately?

It is not surprising that different cultures depict supposedly the same religious figures very differently in their art, literature and music. They are not worshipping the same thing! :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline neopagan

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1161
  • Darwins +86/-3
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2013, 06:13:08 PM »
Maybe those missionaries should take a poster of Pamela Anderson and say "Our official missionary position endorses god is..." and whip out the poster.  Problem solved.
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline dloubet

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1409
  • Darwins +83/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • Denisloubet.com
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2013, 01:17:36 AM »
How would one know it's Jesus? People get scammed and conned by ordinary humans with known abilities all the time, yet they insist they know the identity and motives of a supernatural being with unknown powers of persuasion that claims to be Jesus. What the hell are they doing, checking its photo ID?
Denis Loubet

Offline Star Stuff

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5789
  • Darwins +152/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • Carbon-based life form.
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2013, 09:10:43 AM »
God is an Imaginary Friend for Grown-ups

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2013, 03:14:46 PM »
Christians have been praying to Q from Star Trek.....that's why there aren't any amputees getting their limbs back. &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1505
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Retired Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2013, 07:39:55 PM »
Christians have been praying to Q from Star Trek.....that's why there aren't any amputees getting their limbs back. &)

Because he was killed, or because he is an asshole?
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2013, 07:51:12 PM »
The latter. Q would love to watch puny humans trying to survive without their limbs. Why would he fix any of them? He was very god-like that way. &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline rev45

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1216
  • Darwins +37/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Did your parents raise you to be an idiot?
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2013, 09:45:43 PM »
How would one know it's Jesus? People get scammed and conned by ordinary humans with known abilities all the time, yet they insist they know the identity and motives of a supernatural being with unknown powers of persuasion that claims to be Jesus. What the hell are they doing, checking its photo ID?
Jesus has been back for a while and is living in Florida.  For whatever reason the majority of Christians don't believe him, I can't see why as I'm thoroughly convinced. 
José Luis de JesúsWiki

I really don't think Christians will know who Jesus is until the world is engulfed in flames and he comes riding in on his My Little PonyTM.  Though a god returning on the back of a horse seems a little outdated to me.  Maybe he should come back with a high end Mercedes or other luxury vehicle.
Here read a book.  It's free.
http://www.literatureproject.com/

Could a being create the fifty billion galaxies, each with two hundred billion stars, then rejoice in the smell of burning goat flesh?   Ron Patterson

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6215
  • Darwins +411/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2013, 03:34:59 AM »
Did you notice that no one ever disagrees with god on any issue?  I've never heard someone say, "You know, I really think X, but god thinks Y.  I just don't see eye to eye with god on this one."

Instead I hear how he and god agree on everything.  Imagine that.

I know what you're saying, but for the sake of argument.....  ;D

In a very small number of cases, I could see their response being true.  The believer who genuinely believes in god would have altered their thinking to align with god in every way.  In "the before time" they may have had different ideas, but now, they follow god's word all the way".

But of course, that IS a ver small number of cases.  You only have to look at the way many believers actions contradict what god tells them to do, to see that they don't really think the same as their professed god.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Crowbar

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Darwins +0/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2013, 04:31:37 AM »
I had a bit of an argument with my wife regarding the basis of faith and how those of us who have or have had faith in God force ourselves to be either willfully ignorant or unknowingly hypocritical. She pointed out that no one can judge another person's relationship with God and all I could do was shake my head and try to get her to understand the following.

Individuals, especially of the Abrahamic faiths tend to believe in a variations of the God(s) spoken of in their religious texts. To 99.999% of believers God is not the sovereign that is found on the pages of scripture but rather a subjective, personal, mental construct of each believing individual. The individual personifies God in their minds and limits God to the prism of their perception making God far less than what a real 'God' should be. To most, God becomes a loving, mighty, and powerful personal entity that offers them service, guidance, and protection in return for praise and gratitude. This 'god' entity is not God at all, but rather a created machination used by a person to help them in life by offering them hope of not only overcoming trials, but also hope of being able to live in a manner that is closer to THE PERSON'S ideals of what is right and moral. Bottom line, people don't serve God, they tend to want to subject not only themselves but also the people they encounter with being subserviant to their own ideals and beliefs pertaining to how one should live and also think.

"To 99.999% of believers God is not the sovereign that is found on the pages of scripture but rather a subjective, personal, mental construct of each believing individual"

Can I see the source data/ peer reviewed papers/evidence for this mathematical statistic please? Ive noticed atheist's use that statistic a lot.  :police: It comes in handy for being almost 99.9 percent mathematically certain about something. Not quite there but, we'll make up the other .1 and make it an even 100% Certain i.e we will lie.

It is not in any way religious to observe "creation" for want of a better word (sorry because there is no better word for getting up an atheists nose and giving him/her an epileptic fit huh?, perhaps because the word is a divine concept in itself, hard for the logician to get the brain around?) I digress. 

Again it is not in any way "religious' to make "scientific" observations of one's surroundings, and conclude that indeed before me is all creation, land, ocean animals plants stars moon sun cosmos etc, it is not in any way religious to conclude. or hypothesis or theorize "scientifically" that something/someone/whatever "created it all" To think that "nothing" whatsoever had "anything" to do with ALL of it is in no way "religious" that is in fact certifiably insane and should be classified as the meaning of insanity in the dictionary. For now the word Atheism shall suffice.

Calling this theory "God" is where it perhaps becomes immediately deemed "Oh so very religious" by the pious atheist but one must call it something, it is the something/how that ALL "religions" of the world's are create out of including the oh so very religious atheist evolutionist.   

You get all hot and bothered by the Ex Nihilo, something out of noting theory and yet the whole atheist position is based on "nothing out of something" - THIS this makes atheism an insane position. It is an observable measurable scientific fact that Atheism is insane. Don't wake up and become a Christian, just wake up would be enough.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 05:00:58 AM by Crowbar »
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

God is a big hairy meanie with zits, bad breath and alopecia therefor God does not exist, NO WAY especially the big old, old ancient desert   bible god, coz he kills innocent baby lambs and white fur seals on the Sabbath. Atheism 101

Offline shnozzola

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1967
  • Darwins +110/-2
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2013, 10:17:45 AM »
Crowbar,
   So what is your definition of god?  Maybe Spock-like -  "pure energy", or a positive charge, or the particle everyone is smashing for, or what?  Maybe you have seen the Lawrence Krauss video below.  Excellent theories, if you have the time to watch it.  If you think god exists, define it.



“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
  The real holy trinity:  onion, celery, and bell pepper ~  all Cajun Chefs

Online wright

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1998
  • Darwins +85/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • "Sleep like a log, snore like a chainsaw."
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2013, 01:51:27 PM »
Again it is not in any way "religious' to make "scientific" observations of one's surroundings, and conclude that indeed before me is all creation, land, ocean animals plants stars moon sun cosmos etc, it is not in any way religious to conclude. or hypothesis or theorize "scientifically" that something/someone/whatever "created it all"

It depends on how you're defining "religious" and "scientific" here. The formalized empiricism we call the scientific method has yet to reveal evidence of a deliberate creation with regard to cosmology and biology. And the human tendency to see patterns and correlations where none actually exist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia) is a pretty good clue to the origins of religion.


Calling this theory "God" is where it perhaps becomes immediately deemed "Oh so very religious" by the pious atheist but one must call it something, it is the something/how that ALL "religions" of the world's are create out of including the oh so very religious atheist evolutionist.   

You get all hot and bothered by the Ex Nihilo, something out of noting theory and yet the whole atheist position is based on "nothing out of something" - THIS this makes atheism an insane position. It is an observable measurable scientific fact that Atheism is insane. Don't wake up and become a Christian, just wake up would be enough.

Please note that the generally accepted definition of atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. If this is a form of insanity, then provide your measurable scientific fact to prove it.

Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline Crowbar

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Darwins +0/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2013, 01:12:24 AM »
Crowbar,
   So what is your definition of god?  Maybe Spock-like -  "pure energy", or a positive charge, or the particle everyone is smashing for, or what?  Maybe you have seen the Lawrence Krauss video below.  Excellent theories, if you have the time to watch it.  If you think god exists, define it.



My definition of "God" will be almost certainly 99.9 % unacceptable to you so I shan't bother.

Spock out.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 01:36:59 AM by Crowbar »
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

God is a big hairy meanie with zits, bad breath and alopecia therefor God does not exist, NO WAY especially the big old, old ancient desert   bible god, coz he kills innocent baby lambs and white fur seals on the Sabbath. Atheism 101

Offline neopagan

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1161
  • Darwins +86/-3
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2013, 01:18:20 AM »
shnozzola, I think what he means to say is - you and most of us here are neither stupid enough or credulous enough to understand it... If so, I agree and we all move on.  Sorry Spock had to be dragged into this silliness.

If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Crowbar

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Darwins +0/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2013, 01:25:19 AM »
Quote

It depends on how you're defining "religious" and "scientific" here. The formalized empiricism we call the scientific method has yet to reveal evidence of a deliberate creation


This is the first time I have seen the words "creation" and "deliberate" placed side by side by an atheist before, whilst at he same time using big words like "formalized empiricism"

So does the formalized empiricism "we" call the scientific method at least concur that said creation has indeed been "created" albeit allegedly accidentally, perhaps whilst "God" was watching the cricket he accidentally split is coffee (decaf) and wammo. our creation started and God said "Oh bugger" is that your religion? Or doesn't your God like cricket?? Maybe he was watching topless darts?

You see you cant be an atheist "by your definition" when there is a creation to behold, and still expect people to view you as sane. Ya git me Captain Kirk? 

I say again creation is evidence of a creator/God, to deny this is insanity.  An insane militant vile and horrible religious  extremist insanity with no equal

And every single last one of you quotes form scripture and preaches from scripture religiously. FREAKS!  UTTER AND TOTAL FREAKS!
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 01:28:35 AM by Crowbar »
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

God is a big hairy meanie with zits, bad breath and alopecia therefor God does not exist, NO WAY especially the big old, old ancient desert   bible god, coz he kills innocent baby lambs and white fur seals on the Sabbath. Atheism 101

Offline Traveler

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2056
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
    • I am a Forum Guide
    • Gryffin Designs
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2013, 01:27:27 AM »
This one is amusing. Can we keep him?  &)
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Online jaimehlers

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5258
  • Darwins +601/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2013, 01:42:04 AM »
This one is amusing. Can we keep him?  &)
You should read the YEC thread - he went off the rails there very quickly.  It got kind of boring, actually.  It's like listening to someone with Tourette's.

Offline Crowbar

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Darwins +0/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2013, 01:47:07 AM »
I like how you all talk to each other out loud about me in public. It's like listening into enemy comms, Dopey fucks.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 01:48:55 AM by Crowbar »
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

God is a big hairy meanie with zits, bad breath and alopecia therefor God does not exist, NO WAY especially the big old, old ancient desert   bible god, coz he kills innocent baby lambs and white fur seals on the Sabbath. Atheism 101

Online jaimehlers

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5258
  • Darwins +601/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: A Relationship With God
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2013, 01:49:18 AM »
Dumb question, but...how are we supposed to talk to each other in public if not out loud?

It doesn't seem like you gave that particular insult all that much thought.