Author Topic: Jesus names as evil those who think his Father would break heavenly law and have  (Read 706 times)

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Offline Greatest I am

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Jesus names as evil those who think his Father would break heavenly law and have him sacrificed.

The law in heaven is that the oldest dies first if there is to be a death. That is the only proper law for Gods, --- if they could die that is.

As above so below.

If we interpret that law and apply it to a human family, then the first to die would be fathers, followed by wives and lastly, children. Fathers are to die before sons. That is God’s law.

As above so below then would indicate that the law of the sea should also be the law of the land. It says that women and children are saved first then the men.

Men would need to recognize their duty to sanctify the family by placing women and children above themselves. IOW, equality does not exist in heaven nor should it exist in our human law.

Knowing this, God would never have his son sacrifice for a ransom that God himself would have had to set. One does not put a bounty on a son’s head.

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Christian preach for Satan. Shame on Christians for their immoral dogma and tradition of embracing blood sacrifice.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning. He would know that barbaric human sacrifice is immoral.

You do as well. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence nor would God break heavenly law.

If you are a believer in the vile notion of the human sacrifice of Jesus Christ, when you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased?
With innocent blood?

If you say yes and point to you scapegoat Jesus, you become Satan’s.

Have you embraced human sacrifice and do you plan to try to ride your scapegoat Jesus into heaven, --- on your way to hell?

Regards
DL


Offline Nick

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Wow, I had a hard time following the logic there.  Since all gods are made up does it really matter how the story is plotted out?  And since God is both God and son He kind of died 1st anyhow...as strange as that is in itself.  And how do atheists get involved in human sacrifice?  I mean don't get me wrong...I enjoy a good baby BBQ just as much as the next atheist but human sacrifice is not high on my list.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Jonny-UK

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This really is all over the place.
You mention a law for gods (plural) and then the sacrifice of god's son (singular) and as for christians and satan working together &).
Do you beleive in one god or multiple ?
I quite like the line that starts "In Reality" as this really isn't.
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline neopagan

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Huh?

GIA, could you point me to this "heavenly law" or "law in heaven"?  I'm not sure if you are referring to actual documents or the script from the movie Titanic.

I did always like Van Halen's song "Women and Children First" but not following your baseline here...
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Greatest I am

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Wow, I had a hard time following the logic there.  Since all gods are made up does it really matter how the story is plotted out?  And since God is both God and son He kind of died 1st anyhow...as strange as that is in itself.  And how do atheists get involved in human sacrifice?  I mean don't get me wrong...I enjoy a good baby BBQ just as much as the next atheist but human sacrifice is not high on my list.

I am aware of where I am and do not expect many theists to come by. What I am looking for are good opinions on the immorality of that Christian dogma so that I can be better versed when confronting Christians who have embrace such a vile notion.

How would you tell them that their morals suck, in a nice way of course?

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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This really is all over the place.
You mention a law for gods (plural) and then the sacrifice of god's son (singular) and as for christians and satan working together &).
Do you beleive in one god or multiple ?
I quite like the line that starts "In Reality" as this really isn't.

I am not an atheist but do not believe in any miracle working God or Gods. Please read my motivation for being here in the post just above and choose to opine or not.

Thanks.

Regards
DL

 

Offline Greatest I am

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Huh?

GIA, could you point me to this "heavenly law" or "law in heaven"?  I'm not sure if you are referring to actual documents or the script from the movie Titanic.

I did always like Van Halen's song "Women and Children First" but not following your baseline here...

I have no source for heavenly law other than logic.

I wrote the O P for theists and had a different purpose for placing it in this forum.

Please look at the second post up where I explain a bit more and see if you would like to opine.

Regards
DL

Offline neopagan

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I am aware of where I am and do not expect many theists to come by. What I am looking for are good opinions on the immorality of that Christian dogma so that I can be better versed when confronting Christians who have embrace such a vile notion.

How would you tell them that their morals suck, in a nice way of course?

Start by quoting from their book (the Bible) and be very specific about the immoral things their god does, assuming of course, you can first pin down what they would define as immoral - because they will shift goalposts as soon as you read anything from their book and try to hold them to it.

Quoting from your "logic" or from some "law of heaven" will not work with a thesit, since they view the Bible as their playbook.  Of course, it's all an exercise in futility, since they will excuse anything their god does...
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Jonny-UK

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If you are a believer in the vile notion of the human sacrifice of Jesus Christ, when you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased?

I am not an atheist but do not believe in any miracle working God or Gods. Please read my motivation for being here in the post just above and choose to opine or not.

Thanks.
Regards
DL
I am quite new here so  still finding my feet and fully admit to lacking a lot of knowledge on religion compared to many others here,but, I would still like to know what angle you are coming from.
Your original quote makes it clear that you believe Satan exists and yet you do not believe in miracle working god or gods.
Or have I read that wrong and you think Satan only exists for Christians ?



"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Online Jag

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"As above, so below"

With the exception of the Catholic Church Infallability Handy-Dandy Out Clause*, the only context I ever hear, use, or even think this in relation to, is trees - the physical shape and form of the part above the ground roughly reflects the roots below.

But every time I hear, use, or think it, George Carlin in cardinal robes is firmly planted in my mind's eye. I miss him....

*What is the correct term? If I understand correctly, doesn't it more or less say that the RCC is able to not only interpret the word of God for the unwashed masses, but that they can actually declare something to be Truth-with-a-capital-T and God Himself** will abide by it? And if so, isn't that pretty ballsy ("taking on the Throne", anyone?  :P), and in that light, doesn't it look a lot like the kind of rule that people who know damn well the game is rigged would institute?

**I just realized that I only capitalize any god references when I'm making rude jokes about the idea. That amuses me for some reason.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 03:45:05 PM by Jag »
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline jaimehlers

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I am quite new here so  still finding my feet and fully admit to lacking a lot of knowledge on religion compared to many others here,but, I would still like to know what angle you are coming from.
Your original quote makes it clear that you believe Satan exists and yet you do not believe in miracle working god or gods.
Or have I read that wrong and you think Satan only exists for Christians ?
It's an attention-getter for Christians.

Offline nogodsforme

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I thought "as above so below" was a Wicca phrase. :?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline neopagan

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I thought "as above, so below" was a reference to the drapes matching the carpet... or something bawdy.  :)
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Greatest I am

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I am aware of where I am and do not expect many theists to come by. What I am looking for are good opinions on the immorality of that Christian dogma so that I can be better versed when confronting Christians who have embrace such a vile notion.

How would you tell them that their morals suck, in a nice way of course?

Start by quoting from their book (the Bible) and be very specific about the immoral things their god does, assuming of course, you can first pin down what they would define as immoral - because they will shift goalposts as soon as you read anything from their book and try to hold them to it.

Quoting from your "logic" or from some "law of heaven" will not work with a thesit, since they view the Bible as their playbook.  Of course, it's all an exercise in futility, since they will excuse anything their god does...

I hear you. I do quote from scriptures but that does not matter much usually for the reasons you state. I do have to just end with them with something like this and a chastisement for them having to develop a double set of moral standards so that they can justify and stomach their genocidal son murdering God.



One of these days I will find a killer issue that they will not be able to just shrug off and that will be the end of their hypocrisy. We all have hearts and all I need is a key.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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If you are a believer in the vile notion of the human sacrifice of Jesus Christ, when you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased?

I am not an atheist but do not believe in any miracle working God or Gods. Please read my motivation for being here in the post just above and choose to opine or not.

Thanks.
Regards
DL
I am quite new here so  still finding my feet and fully admit to lacking a lot of knowledge on religion compared to many others here,but, I would still like to know what angle you are coming from.
Your original quote makes it clear that you believe Satan exists and yet you do not believe in miracle working god or gods.
Or have I read that wrong and you think Satan only exists for Christians ?

If I want to argue with literalists, I have to go to their literalist ball park. At least to begin a discussion. They would not come around if I did not. Speaking from outside their church when they are all inside return nothing. I have to enter before being heard.

In the case of this O P I try to play on their idiotic beliefs and fears or Satan because their church has used fear to keep them in line for so long, only fear will have them look to see if they are on the right path. If I did not have to get around that indoctrination I would come at discussions in a less literal way.

When talking to mental babies one must talk baby talk.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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"As above, so below"

With the exception of the Catholic Church Infallability Handy-Dandy Out Clause*, the only context I ever hear, use, or even think this in relation to, is trees - the physical shape and form of the part above the ground roughly reflects the roots below.

But every time I hear, use, or think it, George Carlin in cardinal robes is firmly planted in my mind's eye. I miss him....

*What is the correct term? If I understand correctly, doesn't it more or less say that the RCC is able to not only interpret the word of God for the unwashed masses, but that they can actually declare something to be Truth-with-a-capital-T and God Himself** will abide by it? And if so, isn't that pretty ballsy ("taking on the Throne", anyone?  :P), and in that light, doesn't it look a lot like the kind of rule that people who know damn well the game is rigged would institute?

**I just realized that I only capitalize any god references when I'm making rude jokes about the idea. That amuses me for some reason.

I think the infallibility thing is just applied to doctrine but for sure it looks like a rigged game.

Circular as well. I can't be wrong because I said I can't be wrong so I must be right.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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I am quite new here so  still finding my feet and fully admit to lacking a lot of knowledge on religion compared to many others here,but, I would still like to know what angle you are coming from.
Your original quote makes it clear that you believe Satan exists and yet you do not believe in miracle working god or gods.
Or have I read that wrong and you think Satan only exists for Christians ?
It's an attention-getter for Christians.

I have to learn to use such phrases but tend to be a bit longer winded. You have a gift I lack. You shame my longer answer. Well not quite.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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I thought "as above so below" was a Wicca phrase. :?

They might use it, I don't know, but it is way older than their group or present tradition.

Regards
DL

Offline Jonny-UK

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I liked the video G.I.A
I would still like to know though what your angle is here.
I do not believe any Jesus story to be true as I do not believe in a god so therefor do not believe in any son of a god.
Would it be fair to say you wish to show christians the error of their ways so you can them show them another way/religion and if so would you be so kind as to mention what that belief is ?
Thanks
"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline Greatest I am

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I liked the video G.I.A
I would still like to know though what your angle is here.
I do not believe any Jesus story to be true as I do not believe in a god so therefor do not believe in any son of a god.
Would it be fair to say you wish to show christians the error of their ways so you can them show them another way/religion and if so would you be so kind as to mention what that belief is ?
Thanks

There is religion and there is man's spiritual nature.

Religion has screwed up mans search for true spirituality.

You liked that clip so I will save us half an hour of writing and reading and introduce you to a Bishop that even atheists like in terms of philosophy.

I will give a second clip that shows closely the method I used for my own apotheosis.





The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL


Offline Jonny-UK

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Thank you for the reply.
I think I see your position now.
The gnostic thing is something I had no knowledge of, however it just seems like a variation on a theme.
I think I understand you are looking at the bible stories in a different light and interpreting them differently.
As for morals, the stories in the bible reflect the attitudes of the people at that time (e.g. slavery was acceptable then but we can see now how utterly wrong it was). Society has thankfully moved on.
The little donation plea in the second video makes me think that guy has an ulterior motive !

"Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks" - pinhead

Offline Greatest I am

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Thank you for the reply.
I think I see your position now.
The gnostic thing is something I had no knowledge of, however it just seems like a variation on a theme.
I think I understand you are looking at the bible stories in a different light and interpreting them differently.
As for morals, the stories in the bible reflect the attitudes of the people at that time (e.g. slavery was acceptable then but we can see now how utterly wrong it was). Society has thankfully moved on.
The little donation plea in the second video makes me think that guy has an ulterior motive !

He did. To be able to afford to stay on the tube and preach his views.

Like all product, those who felt he gave value gave back if they could. Those who did not see the value did not.

What he teaches is not nearly as valuable to the fools who prefer to believe in fantasy, miracles and magic it seems.

They prefer to support the genocidal son murderer who promises heaven to one who only promises reality and self-growth.

Regards
DL