Author Topic: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)  (Read 4132 times)

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Offline hickdive

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2013, 05:16:08 AM »
Im going to be honest and say that i cannot supply anything more than other peoples reports of their tulpae (sadly tearing out peoples brains and looking what is inside mentally cannot happen...) , there is a few sites dedicated to the phenomenon,  try them.

Ok, I have done a bit of googling on these sites and you are correct, there is no evidence for them.

I'm afraid that these tulpae are only real in so far as that a mentally-ill person can also have a real delusion that they are Napoleon Bonaparte.

However, in the case of tulpae, it is otherwise-sane people that have convinced themselves of their existence. In short, they are "woo" in exactly the same way as jesus et al.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2013, 06:19:10 AM »
Can we please deviate away from whether or not tulpae are real or not? I am not here to prove it, the topic is for tulpa related questions.

I can't see you having much luck with this tack, to be honest.  Why would we want more details of something that we do not believe exists?  Naturally, we want to see the evidence of the things - before I become interested in what colour dresses the fairies wear and whether they prefer milk to beer, I want to know whether fairies exist in the first place.

Now, if we BOTH agreed that tulpa were no more than a particular type of fantasy friend, then questions about them would make sense.  Like, if you were the world-expert on Star Trek spaceships, for example.....we'd both agree they didn't actually exist, but might still have fun discussing which version of the Enterprise was fastest.

But while you are still saying "tulpa are a real thing", then I can't see how the discussion is going to get away from their existence.  Every time you say "tulpa are (X)", we'll want to know how you know that - which always comes back to their reality.  Sorry, but I don't since your plea here getting much notice.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Dante

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2013, 06:43:04 AM »
EDIT: can we please deviate away from whether or not tulpae are real or not? I am not here to prove it, the topic is for tulpa related questions.

Weird. I thought finding out if they're real was a related question. Because, if they're not as real as you claim, then the whole exercise of asking questions about them seems fairly pointless.

And if we can't prove they're real, then they might as well be gods.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2013, 07:20:36 AM »
EDIT: can we please deviate away from whether or not tulpae are real or not? I am not here to prove it, the topic is for tulpa related questions.

Weird. I thought finding out if they're real was a related question. Because, if they're not as real as you claim, then the whole exercise of asking questions about them seems fairly pointless.

And if we can't prove they're real, then they might as well be gods.

Just think of a tulpa being as real as an imaginary friend, not able to be seen by anyone else but the creator, yet still existing, mentally...

While asking if they are real or not is related to the topic, i was personally expecting other questions.

Although, i cannot dismiss the fact that i cannot prove tulpae.
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2013, 07:25:13 AM »
Can we please deviate away from whether or not tulpae are real or not? I am not here to prove it, the topic is for tulpa related questions.

I can't see you having much luck with this tack, to be honest.  Why would we want more details of something that we do not believe exists?  Naturally, we want to see the evidence of the things - before I become interested in what colour dresses the fairies wear and whether they prefer milk to beer, I want to know whether fairies exist in the first place.

Now, if we BOTH agreed that tulpa were no more than a particular type of fantasy friend, then questions about them would make sense.  Like, if you were the world-expert on Star Trek spaceships, for example.....we'd both agree they didn't actually exist, but might still have fun discussing which version of the Enterprise was fastest.

But while you are still saying "tulpa are a real thing", then I can't see how the discussion is going to get away from their existence.  Every time you say "tulpa are (X)", we'll want to know how you know that - which always comes back to their reality.  Sorry, but I don't since your plea here getting much notice.

A tulpa is a fantasy friend, perhaps my definition of real is not the best...

But if you have any questions, please ask.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2013, 07:28:24 AM »
Weird. I thought finding out if they're real was a related question. Because, if they're not as real as you claim, then the whole exercise of asking questions about them seems fairly pointless.

Just think of a tulpa being as real as an imaginary friend, not able to be seen by anyone else but the creator, yet still existing, mentally...

While asking if they are real or not is related to the topic, i was personally expecting other questions.

MY tulpa has green wings and blue fur.  He answers to the name of Bernie, likes playing GTA, and has a Doctorate in Java Studies (he claims). 

If we're making stuff up and trading stories about our imaginary friends, let's do it.  We can chat about whether they'd have fun together, and which one would win at arm wrestling.  But if one of us is saying they ACTUALLY EXIST, then THAT is the important question to answer. 

If there is no evidence you can produce, then Alexis is just as real as Bernie, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about Bernie.  What exactly interests you about him?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2013, 08:42:09 AM »
Weird. I thought finding out if they're real was a related question. Because, if they're not as real as you claim, then the whole exercise of asking questions about them seems fairly pointless.

Just think of a tulpa being as real as an imaginary friend, not able to be seen by anyone else but the creator, yet still existing, mentally...

While asking if they are real or not is related to the topic, i was personally expecting other questions.

MY tulpa has green wings and blue fur.  He answers to the name of Bernie, likes playing GTA, and has a Doctorate in Java Studies (he claims). 

If we're making stuff up and trading stories about our imaginary friends, let's do it.  We can chat about whether they'd have fun together, and which one would win at arm wrestling.  But if one of us is saying they ACTUALLY EXIST, then THAT is the important question to answer. 

If there is no evidence you can produce, then Alexis is just as real as Bernie, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about Bernie.  What exactly interests you about him?

*sigh*

Shall I just let this topic die and post some atheist related stuff?...
At-least one person asked some alright questions.

EDIT: just pondering, do you find the concept of tulpae possible? Or for that matter, from what i have typed, what did you comprehend from it?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 08:44:10 AM by Angus and Alexis »
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Offline Jag

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2013, 08:47:51 AM »
Hi A and A,

I'm really curious - why did you create Alexis, or any tulpae at all for that matter? I've more or less made sense of the "how" but now would like to know what led you to try in the first place.

I can sort of see how this could work, provided you don't take the stand that tulpae can manifest in physical form in "the real world" (and you've been very clear that you don't) - but I also think this sounds like a risky thing to do to your brain.

And I'm endlessly curious about people. Nosy even. Please share.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2013, 08:56:39 AM »
Now, there's proof that ALL of our actions/decisions happen before we are aware of them.
Correction, there's evidence that we do subconscious processing as part of decision-making which often (but not always) lines up with the conscious decision we make.  That is not the same thing as conclusive proof that decisions are made before our consciousness is aware of them.  To quote a scientist involved in studies of this phenomenon, "What we need now is 20 years of serious neuroscience, not more speculation about the handful of studies that have been done so far."[1]

I'm not trying to start an argument about what is actually happening.  I don't have the technical expertise to accurately judge it, and I don't think anyone else likely to get involved in that particular debate here does either.  My point is that we don't have a sufficient basis of evidence to come to a firm conclusion yet, and we likely won't for years or decades.

But that reminds me of a question.  Has anyone with a tulpa ever submitted to brain scans to help determine what it is they do and why they do it?
 1. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23367-brain-imaging-spots-our-abstract-choices-before-we-do.html

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2013, 09:04:43 AM »
Now, there's proof that ALL of our actions/decisions happen before we are aware of them.
Correction, there's evidence that we do subconscious processing as part of decision-making which often (but not always) lines up with the conscious decision we make.  That is not the same thing as conclusive proof that decisions are made before our consciousness is aware of them.  To quote a scientist involved in studies of this phenomenon, "What we need now is 20 years of serious neuroscience, not more speculation about the handful of studies that have been done so far."[1]

I'm not trying to start an argument about what is actually happening.  I don't have the technical expertise to accurately judge it, and I don't think anyone else likely to get involved in that particular debate here does either.  My point is that we don't have a sufficient basis of evidence to come to a firm conclusion yet, and we likely won't for years or decades.

But that reminds me of a question.  Has anyone with a tulpa ever submitted to brain scans to help determine what it is they do and why they do it?
 1. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23367-brain-imaging-spots-our-abstract-choices-before-we-do.html

Surprisingly no, if someone did i would love to know the answer, regardless of the results, just to settle it once and for all.

Hi A and A,

I'm really curious - why did you create Alexis, or any tulpae at all for that matter? I've more or less made sense of the "how" but now would like to know what led you to try in the first place.

I can sort of see how this could work, provided you don't take the stand that tulpae can manifest in physical form in "the real world" (and you've been very clear that you don't) - but I also think this sounds like a risky thing to do to your brain.

And I'm endlessly curious about people. Nosy even. Please share.

I decided to make Alexis because i was bored, i dislike actual people (well, most of the people here, in Rockingham, are assholes who swear too much take drugs and are rude, i do have a few close friends), i like the idea of a loyal companion and the concept was interesting.
And no, the idea of physical tulpae is ridiculous, as a side note though, tulpae are known for touching their creators and vice versa.

Please ask more questions, i do not find them nosy.

EDIT: after a tad bit of research, i admit tulpae are delusions, from current knowledge. Although i'm not sure what that is meant to prove.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 09:06:44 AM by Angus and Alexis »
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Offline Dante

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2013, 09:07:44 AM »
what did you comprehend from it?

My comprehension is that, if true, it falls somewhere between creating an imaginary friend and self-induced mulitple personality disorder.

ETA, after seeing A&A's last post:

after a tad bit of research, i admit tulpae are delusions, from current knowledge. Although i'm not sure what that is meant to prove.

It's meant to prove they're not real, sentient beings seperate from your being. They are you.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 09:10:21 AM by Dante »
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2013, 09:09:27 AM »
MY tulpa has green wings and blue fur.  He answers to the name of Bernie, likes playing GTA, and has a Doctorate in Java Studies (he claims). 

If we're making stuff up and trading stories about our imaginary friends, let's do it.  We can chat about whether they'd have fun together, and which one would win at arm wrestling.  But if one of us is saying they ACTUALLY EXIST, then THAT is the important question to answer. 

If there is no evidence you can produce, then Alexis is just as real as Bernie, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about Bernie.  What exactly interests you about him?
I am 99.999999...% sure you don't actually have a tulpa, Anfauglir.  What you're describing is "Anfauglir wearing a Bernie mask" - in other words, no different from the kind of thing actors have to do in order to get within their character, or what roleplayers do.  That isn't really what Angus is describing.  He's trying to use analogies to get people off of the idea that a tulpa has an independent existence and can be shown to other people (akin to the real "imaginary friends" from Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends).

If you want to have a debate with him about just how real a tulpa is, might I suggest seeing if he's up for a debate, rather than further hijacking this thread with your efforts to prove what you think tulpae are?  There are people asking actual questions about tulpa here - and your facetious attempt to make up a 'tulpa' on the spot and ask Angus if he wants to ask you any questions about 'Bernie' is more than a little ridiculous.  It might even be somewhat childish.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2013, 09:14:29 AM »
just pondering, do you find the concept of tulpae possible?

I'm curious, what kind of questions were you expecting to get in this thread?

To answer your question: that someone can create an independant entity that is as real and distinct as the difference between you and I?  No, I don't believe that is possible.

That someone can create a vivid fantasy friend to the extent that they are unable to distinguish that fantasy from reality?  Yes, absolutely, especially if such a person has problems with inter-personal relationships.

It is because of the above - and because there is no evidence that a "tulpa" is anything other than an imaginary friend - that I see no purpose whatsoever in discussing them.  Why didn't you ask any questions about Bernie, by the way?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2013, 09:24:52 AM »
I am 99.999999...% sure you don't actually have a tulpa, Anfauglir.  What you're describing is "Anfauglir wearing a Bernie mask" - in other words, no different from the kind of thing actors have to do in order to get within their character, or what roleplayers do.  That isn't really what Angus is describing.  He's trying to use analogies to get people off of the idea that a tulpa has an independent existence and can be shown to other people (akin to the real "imaginary friends" from Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends).

And that's fine, I've accepted that, despite the fact that the source Angus himself quoted suggested they could have a real external world presence.  Tulpa are a construct made entirely within, and with no existence outside of, a particular person's brain.

If you want to have a debate with him about just how real a tulpa is, might I suggest seeing if he's up for a debate, rather than further hijacking this thread with your efforts to prove what you think tulpae are?  There are people asking actual questions about tulpa here - and your facetious attempt to make up a 'tulpa' on the spot and ask Angus if he wants to ask you any questions about 'Bernie' is more than a little ridiculous.  It might even be somewhat childish.

More than happy to hear any evidence Angus is prepared to present that a tulpa is indeed anything more than an imaginary construct within his mind, or how they differ from MPD.  Its possible that if Angus had used the word "real" in a slightly different way, my response may have been different.

Incidentally…..Angus himself has repeatedly said that he DOESN'T want to talk about how real a tulpa may be.   If he is prepared to do that, I'm more than happy to go along.  Ball is entirely in his court, I'm just following his lead.


EDIT:  Just seen this:

EDIT: after a tad bit of research, i admit tulpae are delusions, from current knowledge. Although i'm not sure what that is meant to prove.

...so now I'm not sure where we are going in this thread at all.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 09:28:01 AM by Anfauglir »
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2013, 09:30:19 AM »
just pondering, do you find the concept of tulpae possible?

I'm curious, what kind of questions were you expecting to get in this thread?

Questions about tulpae and Alexis personally.

To answer your question: that someone can create an independant entity that is as real and distinct as the difference between you and I?  No, I don't believe that is possible.

Okay.

That someone can create a vivid fantasy friend to the extent that they are unable to distinguish that fantasy from reality?  Yes, absolutely, especially if such a person has problems with inter-personal relationships.

To be honest, one of the "warnings" for tulpa making is to never forget it is a fantasy.

It is because of the above - and because there is no evidence that a "tulpa" is anything other than an imaginary friend - that I see no purpose whatsoever in discussing them.  Why didn't you ask any questions about Bernie, by the way?

This "Bernie" does not sound like a tulpa, i assumed your post was sarcasm, is bernie indeed a tulpa?

what did you comprehend from it?

My comprehension is that, if true, it falls somewhere between creating an imaginary friend and self-induced mulitple personality disorder.

Hmmm, i would say a tulpa is more like an imaginary friend on steroids, then supercharged to the point of sentience...

ETA, after seeing A&A's last post:

after a tad bit of research, i admit tulpae are delusions, from current knowledge. Although i'm not sure what that is meant to prove.

It's meant to prove they're not real, sentient beings seperate from your being. They are you.

A tulpa is always going to be you, it cannot just split your brain in half like some kind of messed up parasite, but it runs in a separate process, sharing the brain.

MY tulpa has green wings and blue fur.  He answers to the name of Bernie, likes playing GTA, and has a Doctorate in Java Studies (he claims). 

If we're making stuff up and trading stories about our imaginary friends, let's do it.  We can chat about whether they'd have fun together, and which one would win at arm wrestling.  But if one of us is saying they ACTUALLY EXIST, then THAT is the important question to answer. 

If there is no evidence you can produce, then Alexis is just as real as Bernie, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about Bernie.  What exactly interests you about him?
I am 99.999999...% sure you don't actually have a tulpa, Anfauglir.  What you're describing is "Anfauglir wearing a Bernie mask" - in other words, no different from the kind of thing actors have to do in order to get within their character, or what roleplayers do.  That isn't really what Angus is describing.  He's trying to use analogies to get people off of the idea that a tulpa has an independent existence and can be shown to other people (akin to the real "imaginary friends" from Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends).

Heheh, one of the most annoying things on the tulpa forums is roleplayers xD.

If you want to have a debate with him about just how real a tulpa is, might I suggest seeing if he's up for a debate, rather than further hijacking this thread with your efforts to prove what you think tulpae are?  There are people asking actual questions about tulpa here - and your facetious attempt to make up a 'tulpa' on the spot and ask Angus if he wants to ask you any questions about 'Bernie' is more than a little ridiculous.  It might even be somewhat childish.

Again, i honestly cannot prove tulpae, heck, Alexis cant even do much, a debate would be futile. Thanks for trying to get the topic re-railed though.


I am 99.999999...% sure you don't actually have a tulpa, Anfauglir.  What you're describing is "Anfauglir wearing a Bernie mask" - in other words, no different from the kind of thing actors have to do in order to get within their character, or what roleplayers do.  That isn't really what Angus is describing.  He's trying to use analogies to get people off of the idea that a tulpa has an independent existence and can be shown to other people (akin to the real "imaginary friends" from Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends).

And that's fine, I've accepted that, despite the fact that the source Angus himself quoted suggested they could have a real external world presence.  Tulpa are a construct made entirely within, and with no existence outside of, a particular person's brain.

They can affect the creator, yes, but i never said they have any other real world presence.

If you want to have a debate with him about just how real a tulpa is, might I suggest seeing if he's up for a debate, rather than further hijacking this thread with your efforts to prove what you think tulpae are?  There are people asking actual questions about tulpa here - and your facetious attempt to make up a 'tulpa' on the spot and ask Angus if he wants to ask you any questions about 'Bernie' is more than a little ridiculous.  It might even be somewhat childish.

More than happy to hear any evidence Angus is prepared to present that a tulpa is indeed anything more than an imaginary construct within his mind, or how they differ from MPD.  Its possible that if Angus had used the word "real" in a slightly different way, my response may have been different.

Incidentally…..Angus himself has repeatedly said that he DOESN'T want to talk about how real a tulpa may be.   If he is prepared to do that, I'm more than happy to go along.  Ball is entirely in his court, I'm just following his lead.

Indeed i do not want to discuss how real they can be, nor am i attempting to prove them, if you don't believe, fine, nothing is going to happen, you wont die, you wont go to hell or some other stupid place, some people here are indeed interested, so may you please leave this topic? I have to admit that your disbelief is justified entirely, and if anything makes more sense than what i am saying, but why ask questions in a topic you don't have interest in?

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Offline Jag

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2013, 09:34:54 AM »
I decided to make Alexis because i was bored, i dislike actual people (well, most of the people here, in Rockingham, are assholes who swear too much take drugs and are rude, i do have a few close friends), i like the idea of a loyal companion and the concept was interesting.
I was happily reading your explanation thinking "yep... sure... got it..."  when I slammed into this:
Quote
And no, the idea of physical tulpae is ridiculous, as a side note though, tulpae are known for touching their creators and vice versa.

Can you elaborate on the bolded segment please? It sounds like a blatant contradiction to the unbolded part, so I'm assuming for now that I'm not quite understanding what you mean.

New question: how did you get the idea in the first place? I can posit all kinds of scenarios, but would rather let you tell me your story than me tell myself your story.

Edit: there are two questions in here - I'm interested in the answer to both, sorry about the doubling up.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 09:36:35 AM by Jag »
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2013, 09:39:15 AM »
I decided to make Alexis because i was bored, i dislike actual people (well, most of the people here, in Rockingham, are assholes who swear too much take drugs and are rude, i do have a few close friends), i like the idea of a loyal companion and the concept was interesting.
I was happily reading your explanation thinking "yep... sure... got it..."  when I slammed into this:
Quote
And no, the idea of physical tulpae is ridiculous, as a side note though, tulpae are known for touching their creators and vice versa.

Can you elaborate on the bolded segment please? It sounds like a blatant contradiction to the unbolded part, so I'm assuming for now that I'm not quite understanding what you mean.

New question: how did you get the idea in the first place? I can posit all kinds of scenarios, but would rather let you tell me your story than me tell myself your story.

I got the idea from a friend, where he got the idea is likely 4chan, but i am not sure.

"Can you elaborate on the bolded segment please? It sounds like a blatant contradiction to the unbolded part, so I'm assuming for now that I'm not quite understanding what you mean."

A tulpa cannot be physical, that is "an object that actually exists", but they can make an almost exact sensation of touch to their creators. Have you ever had a dream that felt, physically, real? Just like that.

EDIT: WOW, there sure is a large number of people looking at this topic O.o. Come on people , please ask something.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 09:41:49 AM by Angus and Alexis »
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2013, 09:41:47 AM »
]Indeed i do not want to discuss how real they can be, nor am i attempting to prove them, if you don't believe, fine, nothing is going to happen, you wont die, you wont go to hell or some other stupid place, some people here are indeed interested, so may you please leave this topic? I have to admit that your disbelief is justified entirely, and if anything makes more sense than what i am saying, but why ask questions in a topic you don't have interest in?

There is a major difference between "have no interest in" and "do not believe in".  I don't believe in Yahweh, so by that token should I leave this entire forum?  Actually, my participation here is for very similar reasons to the reason I am on the forum at all.

Little bit of background.  My mother has dementia.  The home she is in at the moment is a specialised care-home for people with severe mental issues, which includes MPD.  When I visit, I see just how badly wrong the human mind can go.  So perhaps I am a little sensitive when someone comes along espousing how great it is to deliberately set up "an imaginary friend on steroids, then supercharged to the point of sentience" within their own brain, touting it as a good thing, because they were bored.  It worries me further when your responses switch from "never forget it is a fantasy" to "they can affect the creator".

If we are going to discuss what tulpa are, their neurological effects, and their reality, then I can see a lot of point in that.  But if all you want to discuss are questions about your particular "imaginary friend on steroids", then perhaps I should indeed bow out - as I might bow out of any threasd where a Christian said "ask me anything about Jeebus, but don't ask me if he is real".
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Jag

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2013, 09:47:52 AM »
Thanks, I now understand what you meant, and see the connection to sense of touch in dreams. This phenomenon sounds similar to lucid dreaming, in some ways.

Next: I think you mentioned that Alexis looks similar to the pony in your avatar? If so, did you direct that, or did the form happen without you consciously guiding it? I warned you that I'm nosy  ;)
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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2013, 10:02:54 AM »
Thanks, I now understand what you meant, and see the connection to sense of touch in dreams. This phenomenon sounds similar to lucid dreaming, in some ways.

Next: I think you mentioned that Alexis looks similar to the pony in your avatar? If so, did you direct that, or did the form happen without you consciously guiding it? I warned you that I'm nosy  ;)

Originally she was to look like an original concept I made for a fan fiction (although a female version), then for whatever reason she started looking like the pony (Its actually a species called a Changeling, but whatever.) in my avatar, so it kind of stuck.

]Indeed i do not want to discuss how real they can be, nor am i attempting to prove them, if you don't believe, fine, nothing is going to happen, you wont die, you wont go to hell or some other stupid place, some people here are indeed interested, so may you please leave this topic? I have to admit that your disbelief is justified entirely, and if anything makes more sense than what i am saying, but why ask questions in a topic you don't have interest in?

There is a major difference between "have no interest in" and "do not believe in".  I don't believe in Yahweh, so by that token should I leave this entire forum?  Actually, my participation here is for very similar reasons to the reason I am on the forum at all.

Fair enough, but can you ask anything but "Are tulpae real?" As you already know i do not have any answer.

Little bit of background.  My mother has dementia.  The home she is in at the moment is a specialised care-home for people with severe mental issues, which includes MPD.  When I visit, I see just how badly wrong the human mind can go.  So perhaps I am a little sensitive when someone comes along espousing how great it is to deliberately set up "an imaginary friend on steroids, then supercharged to the point of sentience" within their own brain, touting it as a good thing, because they were bored.  It worries me further when your responses switch from "never forget it is a fantasy" to "they can affect the creator".

A dream is a fantasy, have you never felt anything in a dream? And i assure you i have no mental issues, i'm just an odd person, made worse because of my eye disorder, that makes me have a derpy expression. Lastly, i never said it was not dangerous, nor did i say it is a good thing. There are many dangers, and many benefits, probably more dangers though now that i think of it...

If we are going to discuss what tulpa are, their neurological effects, and their reality, then I can see a lot of point in that.  But if all you want to discuss are questions about your particular "imaginary friend on steroids", then perhaps I should indeed bow out - as I might bow out of any threasd where a Christian said "ask me anything about Jeebus, but don't ask me if he is real".

One of the reasons on why I cannot answer your questions is that I lack the knowledge to answer them. If you truly want some answers, ask the tulpa forums, they have more experience.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2013, 10:31:38 AM »
And that's fine, I've accepted that, despite the fact that the source Angus himself quoted suggested they could have a real external world presence.  Tulpa are a construct made entirely within, and with no existence outside of, a particular person's brain.
But did Angus himself ever say that or even suggest it?  If you want to take exception with people who claim that a tulpa can have a real-world presence (like the imaginary friends from the cartoon I keep quoting), have fun.  But you were kind of jumping on Angus with both feet there for a bit.

Quote from: Anfauglir
More than happy to hear any evidence Angus is prepared to present that a tulpa is indeed anything more than an imaginary construct within his mind, or how they differ from MPD.  Its possible that if Angus had used the word "real" in a slightly different way, my response may have been different.
Maybe you should have asked him what he meant, then.

Quote from: Anfauglir
Incidentally…..Angus himself has repeatedly said that he DOESN'T want to talk about how real a tulpa may be.   If he is prepared to do that, I'm more than happy to go along.  Ball is entirely in his court, I'm just following his lead.

EDIT:  Just seen this:

EDIT: after a tad bit of research, i admit tulpae are delusions, from current knowledge. Although i'm not sure what that is meant to prove.

...so now I'm not sure where we are going in this thread at all.
Given that this thread is about asking questions about tulpae, might I suggest that?  If you don't want to ask any other questions (say, because you're satisfied that tulpae are delusions), then perhaps you would be so kind as to clear the field for other people who do have additional questions.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2013, 10:33:58 AM »
Fair enough, but can you ask anything but "Are tulpae real?" As you already know i do not have any answer.
Here's the problem then:
Does it matter at all what questions are asked and what the answers are?  I can offer to answer any questions you may have regarding what Deadpool was doing during the Secret Wars, but that question/answer session would be nothing more than storytelling or fan fiction.  If we talk about tulpa without any regards for whether they possess an objective existence or not, then your answers will be just as meaningful as anyone else's answers.  Any contradiction with objective reality that comes up can be easily dismissed with 'well we don't know if it's real'.  Do tulpae speak Latin fluently?  Sure, why the hell not - we can't find any examples of tulpae speaking Latin, but, well, we don't know if tulpae are real so whatever.  Can lizards create a tulpa?  No, tulpa require an originating sentience.  Why do they require an originating sentience?  Well, let's just say they do.  It's not like there is an objective reality regarding tulpae that we can compare that answer against to determine if it is even in the same ballpark, city, state, country, or planet as 'correct'.

I don't really have a problem with storytelling.  It's pretty fun; and frankly if anyone wants to have a back-and-forth talking about what Deadpool was doing during the Secret Wars, or what the characteristics are of a talking horse named Ed are, or what the properties of Adamantium are, or if changing the coordinates by 3.6deg on a Stargate would be detrimental for travel or not, we can do that.  It'd be fun, but it would be nothing more than making sh*t up for the sake of storytelling.

If you want to try out some 'What if...' scenarios under the assumption that tulpae are real, that's all good and well, but why would you do such a thing?  One reason I can think of doing such a thing is to determine if, conceptually, tulpae are at least compatible with objective reality.  But that is treading into the water of asking 'Are tulpae real', which apparently isn't something you're interested in figuring out.
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Offline Jag

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2013, 10:40:44 AM »
I'm glad that you indicate that you see why some of us think this is dangerous. I have a relatively minor mental illness  - I'm cyclothymic (mildly bi-polar) and have chosen not to medicate. For some, it can be managed by other means and frankly, psychotropic medications scare the crap out of me, so I steer clear unless I really slide hard down. Messing with my brain chemistry is a last resort for me, but this topic is interesting to me precisely because that looks like what you've done, minus the drugs.

Neuroscience is complex and fascinating and I'm pissed that most of it is way over my head  ;)

I need to stop screwing around here and get back to work. Thanks for answering my questions, I'm sure I'll have more if this thread continues.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2013, 10:43:42 AM »
Little bit of background.  My mother has dementia.  The home she is in at the moment is a specialised care-home for people with severe mental issues, which includes MPD.  When I visit, I see just how badly wrong the human mind can go.  So perhaps I am a little sensitive when someone comes along espousing how great it is to deliberately set up "an imaginary friend on steroids, then supercharged to the point of sentience" within their own brain, touting it as a good thing, because they were bored.  It worries me further when your responses switch from "never forget it is a fantasy" to "they can affect the creator".
Can an idea, born of imagination, affect its creator?  Of course.  I suspect it's that very reason that he said that one shouldn't forget that a tulpa is essentially imaginary.  In other words, there's no contradiction there.

I imagine I would have a similar reaction if someone came along touting the use of recreational drugs for altered mental states - but I'd focus on my actual concerns with the use of recreational drugs rather than asking facetious questions about whether the altered mental states were 'real' or not.  Might I suggest that you clarify your questions to address the concerns you have, rather than asking him if they're really real over and over again?

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2013, 10:48:46 AM »
Can an idea, born of imagination, affect its creator?  Of course.  I suspect it's that very reason that he said that one shouldn't forget that a tulpa is essentially imaginary.  In other words, there's no contradiction there.

I imagine I would have a similar reaction if someone came along touting the use of recreational drugs for altered mental states - but I'd focus on my actual concerns with the use of recreational drugs rather than asking facetious questions about whether the altered mental states were 'real' or not.  Might I suggest that you clarify your questions to address the concerns you have, rather than asking him if they're really real over and over again?
Anfauglir isn't asking if the altered states are real - he's asking if the recreational drug use is real.

If there is actually no recreational drug use, then you can ask all the questions in the world you want about the effects of LSD but the answers you get will be meaningless.
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2013, 10:58:36 AM »
Fair enough, but can you ask anything but "Are tulpae real?" As you already know i do not have any answer.
Does it matter at all what questions are asked and what the answers are? 

To me, yes. To people interested, yes. To others, no. If you are not interested, please leave.

Can an idea, born of imagination, affect its creator?  Of course.  I suspect it's that very reason that he said that one shouldn't forget that a tulpa is essentially imaginary.  In other words, there's no contradiction there.

Its one of the precautions that stops tulpae (well, nasty bad tulpae) from taking over if they get pissed. Sadly, some people have apparently been taker over.


I'm glad that you indicate that you see why some of us think this is dangerous. I have a relatively minor mental illness  - I'm cyclothymic (mildly bi-polar) and have chosen not to medicate. For some, it can be managed by other means and frankly, psychotropic medications scare the crap out of me, so I steer clear unless I really slide hard down. Messing with my brain chemistry is a last resort for me, but this topic is interesting to me precisely because that looks like what you've done, minus the drugs.

Neuroscience is complex and fascinating and I'm pissed that most of it is way over my head  ;)

I need to stop screwing around here and get back to work. Thanks for answering my questions, I'm sure I'll have more if this thread continues.

Please do so soon ;D

Can an idea, born of imagination, affect its creator?  Of course.  I suspect it's that very reason that he said that one shouldn't forget that a tulpa is essentially imaginary.  In other words, there's no contradiction there.

I imagine I would have a similar reaction if someone came along touting the use of recreational drugs for altered mental states - but I'd focus on my actual concerns with the use of recreational drugs rather than asking facetious questions about whether the altered mental states were 'real' or not.  Might I suggest that you clarify your questions to address the concerns you have, rather than asking him if they're really real over and over again?
Anfauglir isn't asking if the altered states are real - he's asking if the recreational drug use is real.

If there is actually no recreational drug use, then you can ask all the questions in the world you want about the effects of LSD but the answers you get will be meaningless.

I can claim tulpae are real, and some would agree, but take it with more salt than the ocean can provide...I would like some tests to be done, cat scans or whatever, but so far said tests have not happened.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2013, 11:01:04 AM »
Here's the problem then:
Does it matter at all what questions are asked and what the answers are?  I can offer to answer any questions you may have regarding what Deadpool was doing during the Secret Wars, but that question/answer session would be nothing more than storytelling or fan fiction.  If we talk about tulpa without any regards for whether they possess an objective existence or not, then your answers will be just as meaningful as anyone else's answers.  Any contradiction with objective reality that comes up can be easily dismissed with 'well we don't know if it's real'.  Do tulpae speak Latin fluently?  Sure, why the hell not - we can't find any examples of tulpae speaking Latin, but, well, we don't know if tulpae are real so whatever.  Can lizards create a tulpa?  No, tulpa require an originating sentience.  Why do they require an originating sentience?  Well, let's just say they do.  It's not like there is an objective reality regarding tulpae that we can compare that answer against to determine if it is even in the same ballpark, city, state, country, or planet as 'correct'.

I don't really have a problem with storytelling.  It's pretty fun; and frankly if anyone wants to have a back-and-forth talking about what Deadpool was doing during the Secret Wars, or what the characteristics are of a talking horse named Ed are, or what the properties of Adamantium are, or if changing the coordinates by 3.6deg on a Stargate would be detrimental for travel or not, we can do that.  It'd be fun, but it would be nothing more than making sh*t up for the sake of storytelling.

If you want to try out some 'What if...' scenarios under the assumption that tulpae are real, that's all good and well, but why would you do such a thing?  One reason I can think of doing such a thing is to determine if, conceptually, tulpae are at least compatible with objective reality.  But that is treading into the water of asking 'Are tulpae real', which apparently isn't something you're interested in figuring out.
He isn't explaining himself very well.  I'm recognizing similar symptoms of groping for an answer that I have when I have an intuitive understanding of something, but don't have all the intermediate steps grasped.

Angus, I'm going to try my hand at setting the record straight here.  If I say something wrong, please correct me.

A tulpa is basically a mental construct.  It's similar to an imaginary friend, except that it's considerably more developed, to the point where it has some ability to act (inside the mind) without the conscious intention of the person who created it.  It's like a parallel process in a computer; it runs along with the other processes, using the same resources, via the equivalent of time-sharing.  So it's not real, in the sense of being an independent entity, such as another person.  It can't directly affect the real world the way a person can.  However, it exists because it's a part of the mind.

Anfauglir isn't asking if the altered states are real - he's asking if the recreational drug use is real.
No, he's not.  He's asking if the tulpa is real, not the process used to make a tulpa.

Quote from: jdawg70
If there is actually no recreational drug use, then you can ask all the questions in the world you want about the effects of LSD but the answers you get will be meaningless.
Bad analogy - the tulpa isn't the equivalent of recreational drug use.  The process used to make the tulpa is, however (after a fashion, it's not exactly comparable in any case).

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2013, 11:05:36 AM »
So, an actual question.  Something I thought of when the subject of MPD came up was how tulpa-creation might apply to it.  Like, for example, if it could be used as a kind of therapy to help bring the disassociated personalities together, even if it wouldn't necessarily integrate them into the main personality.

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Re: Ask tulpae related questions here. (By Angus and Alexis)
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2013, 11:10:06 AM »
Angus, I'm going to try my hand at setting the record straight here.  If I say something wrong, please correct me.

A tulpa is basically a mental construct.  It's similar to an imaginary friend, except that it's considerably more developed, to the point where it has some ability to act (inside the mind) without the conscious intention of the person who created it.  It's like a parallel process in a computer; it runs along with the other processes, using the same resources, via the equivalent of time-sharing.  So it's not real, in the sense of being an independent entity, such as another person.  It can't directly affect the real world the way a person can.  However, it exists because it's a part of the mind.

Everything seems right there, however i would say "any wanted ability to act" instead of "some ability to act".

Anfauglir isn't asking if the altered states are real - he's asking if the recreational drug use is real.
No, he's not.  He's asking if the tulpa is real, not the process used to make a tulpa.

As an interesting thing to note, he apparently has no complaints with the process to make a tulpa, odd?

Quote from: jdawg70
If there is actually no recreational drug use, then you can ask all the questions in the world you want about the effects of LSD but the answers you get will be meaningless.
Bad analogy - the tulpa isn't the equivalent of recreational drug use.  The process used to make the tulpa is, however (after a fashion, it's not exactly comparable in any case).

Love the analogy of drug use and tulpae. Seems so stereo-typically fitting.


So, an actual question.  Something I thought of when the subject of MPD came up was how tulpa-creation might apply to it.  Like, for example, if it could be used as a kind of therapy to help bring the disassociated personalities together, even if it wouldn't necessarily integrate them into the main personality.

I'm no mental disorder know it all, but MPD is separate personalities, tulpae are essentially imaginary friends. Not really that good of a comparison. I could assume that making a tulpa with the exact personality some one does not want could work, but is unlikely.
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